EMS "Promotional Exam" To Firefighter

[Goose 188]

I think this discussion highlights a major structural flaw with FDNY*EMS and something that has bothered me for some time. The concept of a "promotional" exam for appointment to Firefighter sets EMS to fail as a legitimate third career service from the get-go. I can only imagine the number of people that go out and get their EMT certification for the sole purpose taking the promotional exam in hopes of crossing over to suppression. Now you've got a group of employees who have no passion for EMS, this can only lead to stagnation. The concept of a "promotion" from EMS to something else highlights the fact that EMS is officially considered a step-child. Couple that with the tension between suppression and EMS (yes it does exist) because people have chosen to milk the system and your going no where fast.

If you want to be a Firefighter, take the FDNY Firefighters test. EMS is a career filled with training, education and passion - like Firefighting - dedicated to the preservation of life. Abusing this profession for any other reason (aka to be promoted elsewhere) is a disservice to every EMS professional and EMS more generally.

[Guest]

goose, I wish I could be so eloquent, but my consumption of percocet and antibiotics prevented me from being so. As I was saying to the FDNY EMT that took me to the er on Monday, you guys dont get paid squat! How do they expect you to live on that salary.

[x635 4,066]

I absolutely agree with the above, and couldn't have said it better myself.

Even in Fire-based EMS systems where firefighters staff the ambulance, you have guy's that could really care less about clinical excellece.

I think systems such as Boston EMS sets a fine example of the way a municipal, urban EMS system should work.

[ny10570 745]

The worst thing about the promotional is that we lose a lot of people who are actually good EMS providers who do the right thing for the patient. For the most part the people who are actively seeking out a career in fire are pretty motivated individuals. At the very least they come with the attitude that they are there to do a job and want to do it well. A much bigger issue with EMS is the low or really lack of standards. Low pay means low demand which requires us to take all comers. If they get rid of the promotional tomorrow it does more harm than good to EMS.

[Goose 188]

It just aggravates me that my profession is seen so menial that it needs to have a promotional component built into it in large systems like FDNY*EMS where there is tremendous potential. It has become the proverbial back door to suppression. Sure, your motivated, but your not motivated to be a career EMS professional. Your dedicated to being a Firefighter (there is nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong) and thus have no problem putting your year or two on the bus if it will mean easy street to proby school. Let's not beat around the bush, it's a problem. I've talked with immediate family who are FDNY (suppression) members, one who's an officer, and the sentiment is more or less the same. Utilizing the back door has turned EMS members into skells, "enlarged medical technicians", etc. and has subsequently made them unwelcome in firehouses and seen as lazy. It really is upsetting.

[ny10570 745]

The majority of the people that are dragging us down are not on the job to jump to fire. Most of the skells that do try to make the jump that I have been happy to see leave always wind up coming back. Its the quality guys that you want to stay that make the break. Even the guys that I know that hate this job and are looking for the next ticket out of here at least show up every day and do the right thing. So what if its because they don't want anything following them to their next stop. I'd take those guys any day over the the people that came to EMS because it was easy to get on and either can't or are afraid to leave.

Why does it matter where people want to leave. If they're here just to get the pension clock running before jumping to PD or Fire for open competitive. How about those that run up to Westchetser or anywhere for that matter for whatever job it may be. People don't want to stay in EMS, thats the issue. It doesn't matter where they are going, just that they are going.

[Goose 188]

The exodus from EMS to another branch of emergency service is disturbing because it highlights the disenfranchisement that exists particularly when there is a promotional exam to move to another emergency service. Shouldn't we all be on the same playing field?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Hey is it a promotion exam for the Fire Alarm Dispatchers if they take the test....or even the Shop Mechanics and Electricians? They all work for FDNY?

[ny10570 745]

nope, dispatchers and mechanics among many other job titles apparently don't count. Depending on who you believe the promotional was put in to favor the chosen sons of the FD Brass, it could have been installed as an attempt to head off the pressure to diversify the FD, maybe it was done to get more people to join EMS and stop the hemorrhage of employees after the merger, how about an attempt to smooth the eventual complete absorption of EMS by Fire.

[Guest]

The old saying, dont belive what you read, is so true. There are many opinions on this situation and many are based on hearsay.

The merger between FD and EMS was not a bad idea, it was just handled badly. Actually, it continues to be handled poorly but some progress is starting to be made.

EMS, due to the nature of the job, has a high burnout rate and the merger cannot be used as an excuse for the "hemorrhage" of people leaving. Prior to the merger, many people left EMS for better paying jobs, nothing wrong with that.

The low pay and screwed up benefits are a union problem, that needs to be addressed, it is by no means caused by the FDNY.

The promotional system from EMS into the FD as a Fireman was Not for chiefs kids. This idea did not come from the FD at all. It was part of the merger deal to try to enhance EMS and draw more people into that field.Some guys have a problem with it but most dont. The problem that the guys in the FD have is not with EMS people per say, its with the culture.

Firemen have a different culture than any other agency. Its hard to explain but it is what it is. When people come into the job with a bad work ethic, its frowned upon, and it does not matter where they come from.

The fault lies with the FDNY brass for not thinking thru the problems and trying to find a solution. What the FD did was drop the ball, which comes as no surprise being they drop the ball with many issues. The leadership of the FDNY has not been the best in recent years under the bloomberg administration.