One WC Dept. Negligent When It Comes To Highway Scene Safety

[x635 4,066]

Recently, I was on a major Westchester highway, and I passed by an accident scene in which one car rearended another car with some pretty heavy damage in the #1 lane. It was approx 1830hrs on a weekday evening, the road was wet and it was dark.

Traffic was heavy and slow, but the scene came right at you without warning right after coming around a curve. No flares or signage or arrowsticks or vehicles to warn of an accident ahead. People were riding the shoulder, flying, and had to stop and swerve back into the lane immeditely prior to the incident. The first vehicle, which wasnt even parked at an angle to barricade, was a dimly lit mini-attack. Now this was bad, but what really got me, was that there was what appeared to be teenage members, some not even in turnout gear and those that were, the gear wasnt reflective and they werent in full gear. You couldnt even see kids standing there unless you really really looked hard. Plus they were standing AT THE BACK of the mini attack, on the side of traffic, inches away from traffic, shooting the breeze and not paying attention to traffic. How could a department even let members under 18 years old onto a highway, a major and busy interstate nonetheless? There was hardly any scene lighting whatsoever, so when I passed by the cars actually involved, you could hardly see them. Get a light tower people!!! Vehicles, FD PD and EMS, were scattered all over the scene, and were in no positition to create a safety zone for those working on the scene. Vehicles were positioned with no ryme or reason. Again, the mini attack the was the first vehicle as you approached the scene....you could barely see it with its lights on....it had no reflective tape, nor did it have a directional arrowstick. Those firefighters and EMS personell who were casually milling around the scene did not have on very visible gear or vests either. The scene was very,very dark.

Sorry, just needed to vent this. I was extremly disspointed with this department, since they go on that highway quite regularly and I thought much higher of them. This is not th first time I have seen this, but this situation was extremly annoying. I would have thought that the chiefs and leaders of this department would have a higher regard for their firefighters, EMS personel and others safety...I guess not. Do they not read about all the FF's, Police, and EMS hurt on highway incidents? I hope nobody gets hurt due to this neglience. :sad: Traveling on a lot of highways, I have seen a ton of departments doing a great job of scene safety and control, and this has got to be one of the worst scenes I have ever seen.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Your not venting, your hopefully going to save a life. Once again it shows 100 years of tradition unimpeded by tradition and the problems that are associated with not having CEU requirements of the fire service at different levels, ie. firefighter, officer, chief officer.

As well as the fact we don't learn from our own mistakes. Sometimes its their own ignorance, lack of experience, lack of training, or what they got years ago from the defunct system that we are almost where we need to be at. I've seen and heard some other department officers, tell operators where to park, when they wanted to and were going to block the scene. Regardless of what equipment is on the truck, you first obligation is scene safety not getting close so you don't have to carry tools as far.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Highway safety is an important factor to consider when setting up your pattern on the scene of an MVA. This safety practice has to be carried out on side roads as well as limited access highways.

I don't think that the age of the member is the issue. I think it's more the "degree of training" in this area that person has received in this particular case. I have seen 40 yr olds doing the same thing. It's up to the Chief and his officers or training officer to run an effective class on the dangers at these roadway scenes.

Just like at a fire scene, there must be disipline. I'm not talking about the kind being leveled on someone AFTER something happens. I'm talking about the kind that is in every "professional" on the scene. DISCIPLINE is what will keep you alive. and what seperates the professional from the amature.

[SteveOFD 176]

Last week I drove by a scene in NJ on I-95 between the GWB and I-80. It was mid afternoon, sunny, no rain, minor MVA on the right shoulder. Both the Chief and the Engine had pulled off the right shoulder onto the grass past the scene so that they were actually to the right of the incident. There was nothing impeding the flow of traffic, and all driving lanes were flowing at at least 60MPH. Talk about not covering a scene.

[WAS967 97]

I HOPE you aren't just going to sit there and do nothing. Get on the phone. CALL the chief and POLITELY report what you saw and your extreme CONCERN (not disappointment or distaste) for what you witnessed. Heck, record the phone call. If you are polite and professional in addressing him and he blows you off verbally or is rude, my next contact would be in writing with the editor of the Journal News. You'd be amazed how embarrassing a good letter to editor can be and who takes notice of it and what results shall come. But give the supervision a chance to make changes reactively before going down that route, at least as a courtesy.

[x635 4,066]

I HOPE you aren't just going to sit there and do nothing.

I personally know a couple of members from this department. I will be making them quite aware of what happened. I know they read this post, too.

[Pyroinvestigator 0]

This is when I think there should be a critics corner for pictures....for accidents, fires, etc. you don't have to bash...just put up a picture which says a thousand words...maybe it will embarass the dept. or the chief into correcting the problem. We all make a mistake or two...but some are worse than others and if you see it in pictures...it is hard to dispute or justify....that is why I like the site..firefighter close calls. com....and there are pics. of westchester depts. there already....mail the pics to the chief and hope he does the right thing and uses it at training... we all need a reminder once in awhile....and better to be red faced for a minute than sorry for a lifetime

[Remember585 815]

Assuming everything posted is constructive criticism, that's not a bad idea. The problem we have is too many negative opinions. Bashing one another doesn't solve anything. We should all be here to help eachother out and to learn as we go. If EMTBravo can create a way for us to post pics and discus them in a positive way, I'm all for it.

[Guest DADAY]

In regards to alowwing memebers under 18 on the highway. I disagree. If the dept allows the person to join why sould they not be allowed to do everything allowed by law.

Second it happens. Many time the only piece of appartus the gets out may not be the first due for highway. But it gets assistance there asap. Not waiting to tone out and tone out.

[x635 4,066]

In regards to alowwing memebers under 18 on the highway. I disagree. If the dept allows the person to join why sould they not be allowed to do everything allowed by law.

They shouldn't be allowed to be full firefighters if they are under 18 years old, period. Any department that still allows members to be full fledged firefighters under the age of 18 is archaeic. Letting teenagers, to an incident with such potential for danger and injury, is asking for trouble. THIS IS NOT 1962 anymore!!!! Firefighting is a PROFESSION, not a hobby or social club!!! Teenagers, IMO, are not developed enough yet to be able to be a professional firefighters, nor should they be placing themselves in that danger at that point in their life. I beleive absolutely in junior corps, but allowing them on a major interstate and having them stand around, doing nothing, at the foot of the scene, not wearing anything reflective, then what is the purpose of them being there in the first place??? Flare gophers I can only assume.

Second it happens. Many time the only piece of appartus the gets out may not be the first due for highway. But it gets assistance there asap. Not waiting to tone out and tone out.

That's total BS! That's like saying you've got someone hemmoraging, but you can't do anything because you didnt bring your gloves or first aid kit....but at least you're there.(Note Sarcasm) Go to a scene, bring the approriate equipment. If the truck has ANY chance to go on a highway, than it should have the minimum, at least, amount of equipment to PROTECT the crew. PLUS blocking a scene with a mini attack, when you have an more visible scothlite equipped engine AND very well lit HELP truck pulled to the side to the direct right of the MVA, is retarded. Period.

Once again, THIS IS NOT 1962 anymore!!!! Highways are sometimes just as dangerous as going into a fire, and often are responded to more often than structural calls, yet why don't some departments reconize the highways as a dangerous place???????

Even worse, EMS agencies who are grossly negligent protecting their members on the highway.....but that in itself could be a whole seperate topic.

[Pyroinvestigator 0]

alriiiighty then...guess we hit a never there!....LOL....I couldn't agree more though...if you are only getting out because you are getting a couple of 16 year olds to get your trucks out...then you have a much bigger problem...time to find a better solution....this theme is one that keeps repeating itself around and around here in westchester...stop the damn turf wars...the little fifedums and the my truck is better than yours crap...and worry about the people you serve...and the lives we protect...if that means combining, dual response, hiring...what EVER,.....just do it!

[roeems87 0]

One thing I think that hasn't been mentioned here is that it really isn't the job of the FD to control a highway scene. That's a PD job. I don't know what highway you were talking about, but where was county PD or the troopers or local PD to close off the area, get their car flashing and putting flares out. Granted, the first on scene vehicle (sometimes the FD or the ambulance) should be able to control and block the scene, but there is something else to realize. The primary job of the FD and the ambulance (I know, "scene safety first") is to rescue and treat the patient(s). When you arrive on scene and you are there and your vehicle is between you and the scene you somehow (though not entirely) have ensured your scene safety. The juniors who were standing out in the middle of danger are just stupid. Prevention is the best medicine, but those kids should be off the corps or department, no questions asked. At the least, reprimanded. It's a major scene leadership problem what happened there. You can immediately tell what is a well run scene when you have a fire captain or EMS chief or PO on scene directing arriving emergency vehicles and having an isolated accident scene. There are others that you can drive by where you are literally face to face with the rescuer or just narrowly missing the emergency vehicles.

As for the I-95 incident. When there are flashing lights, people need to slow the hell down. But that's not something that's going to change...

[x635 4,066]

Check out these videos, from FireFighterCloseCalls.com, that really drive home the point on how dangerous highway responses can be.

http://www.dw.ohio.gov/ohiostatepatrol/new...P80crash340.wmv

http://www.dw.ohio.gov/ohiostatepatrol/new...rrollton340.wmv

http://www.dw.ohio.gov/ohiostatepatrol/new...Roecrash340.wmv

http://www.dw.ohio.gov/ohiostatepatrol/new...viscrash340.wmv

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/nearmiss.mpg