Roadway De-Icing Liquids And Hazmat?

[x635 4,066]

I notice many Highway Dept's nowadays use some form of liqiuid de-icing solution in conjunction with the standard sand and salt.

Does anyone know what the fluid they use is typically, how it works and when is it applied and does it present any hazard to us first responders in any way, shape, or form?

[Future Fireman 4]

Wouldn't the EPA ban deicing solution if it can hurt the surrounding enviorment? However, it does present a hazard because chemicals can do some weird stuff and it'll freeze at a certain temperature, just much lower than what we're experiencing with 30-50 degree weather.

Mike

Edited January 12, 2008 by Future Fireman

[OnTheWheel 43]

Found this when I was poking around due to my own curiosity. Discusses the effects on the watersheds etc.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/environment/deicer.html

[Guest]

Depends on what the local town uses. But the only hazard is to the environment's homeostasis, and not particularly humans.

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sourcewater/p...cinghighway.pdf

[RWC130 594]

The liquid is called Calcium Chloride.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I'm pretty sure Yorktown and the Town of Cortlandt use the liquid. From what a friend of mine that works for the TOC told me they pretreat the roads with the solution prior to snowfall, which oddly enough I have been told that there have been occassions where the liquid ended up freezing causing a bit of a hazardous condition in its own right. I can remember the Yorktown Highway Super, which I think is Eric DiBartolo was on News 12 quite often discussing the system when they first got it and theirs (and I'm only going on memory) I believe takes the regular road salt and turns it into a liquid. As RWC130 also pointed out I believe they also mix calcium chloride with it, which also CaCl is sprayed onto the regular road salt when used as well.

I can't see it causing any of a hazard being there is no notification requirements.

[x635 4,066]

I remember the Yorktown system being on News 12-when they first started I believe, they were using a byproduct of beer to pre-treat the roadways. It was touted as a enviromentally safe solution.

[Future Fireman 4]

Byproduct of beer to treat icy and snowy roads? You gotta be kidding me.

Mike

[jack10562 414]

...._{I've melted a lot of snow, with Beer by-product....ahem...}

There is another "organic" solution, for road de-icing, and that is a mixture of Beet Juice and a salt-based brine.

It supposedly lowers the effective temperature at which the sodium chloride melts ice, and helps prevent the ice from bonding to the road surface in the first place.

These are generally regarded as a pre-treatment, and sand, salt, and liquid sodium solutions are applied as needed for extended operations.

[dmccabe 1]

The beer by products is true. I plow for a friend and we get whats called "Magic Salt"its treated with beer by products and mollasses. It works better at lower tempature than regular road salt or calcium. I have to admit the stuff works get and smells really good, but it is very expensive.

[OnTheWheel 43]

The beer by products is true. I plow for a friend and we get whats called "Magic Salt"its treated with beer by products and mollasses. It works better at lower tempature than regular road salt or calcium. I have to admit the stuff works get and smells really good, but it is very expensive.

Drunks everywhere will be licking the streets! It will be a pleasure to get "fall down drunk"!

[BedfordFire 7]

Yes, many municipalities (and contractors) are using Calcium Chloride product to treat the roadways, and it seems to work pretty well. Either they pretreat the stockpile of bulk material (sand/salt mix) at the DPW yards, mix it in transit (combi-spreaders) or straight up spread it (poly tanks).

Typically the liquid product is applied as a "pre treatment", as works effectively below 0 degrees F and does the job in preventing ice accretion. Only forseeable problems with the product (along with salt), is both are relatively strong corrosives, and create most of the rust you see on the DPW truck bodies around the area (thats why poly spreaders, tanks, and bodies are the way to go).

Other products used include Magnesium Chloride, Potassium Acetate, Calcium Magnesium Acetate, and then other "special" de-icing mixtures from manufacturers that promise low environmental impact, low corrosiveness, etc. They work, but they are on the more expensive end.

Hope this helps!

[jcoppola 52]

is htat the stuff that makes opaque whitish lines in the road? And, shouldn't those trucks be placarded so we know what to do if they flip and leak?

Just wondering.

JVC

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Should they be placarded....I don't see why and by DOT regs its pretty obvious that they don't have too.

Go find out what your local road crews are using and research the information.

[Guest]

A lot of states and municipalities are going to the preliminary anti-icing chemicals as a first step--sprayed down before the snow starts to fall. Magnesium chloride in solution has been used in Indiana for a while--it's effective up to -13F degrees and very cost-effective. If it's used as a light mist, it can be sprayed directly on plant material. After several inches of snow, the water content of the snow dilutes any corrosion issues...and that's when the municipality would have to switch to traditional granular deicers anyway. You can buy the same product, called Bare Ground, for homeowner use. It really works, even when you spray it right on a plant--no more trashed landscaping because of ice buildup.

[TL2L31 8]

Alot of municipalities are now using what is called a Brine. It is a watered down salt that is applied BEFORE a storm to keep snow or ice from sticking to the pavement. Calcium chloride is usually sprayed directly on the salt as it is applied from a truck. It penetrates ice and snow at a rapid pace.

[ja3kfd 34]

Two Things I know for sure we use the pre treatment where I work, it is Liquid salt or salt water, we put it down on main roads only, myself and the crew I work with see No noticeable diffrence with it. It does not need to be Placared but you do have to have the Tanker endorsement to drive the truck to spread it.

As well we do use the brine on all the in body sanders and that does make a diffrence when you use it , but there is an effective temp. that it works too.

The funny part is that they say they want us to cut down on salt use but here we are putting down liquid salt (sodium) on the road hours before a snow event, if it turns to rain here we are washing it all into the resevoir system.

The Liquid has to be down a few hours before the event they say it will last and be effective up to 24 hrs.

I also read a letter and saw documents on the original liquid some towns where putting down and the State DEC made them stop because it was putting too many phosephtes into the water shed as well.

[Guest]

Has anyone else seen signs for auto deicers on interstates? I think it was on I-78 near Allentown going down a fairly steep incline where I saw a sign for some kind of system. My guess is that it shoots right out of the guardrail or something along those lines.

[helicopper 1,050]

Has anyone else seen signs for auto deicers on interstates? I think it was on I-78 near Allentown going down a fairly steep incline where I saw a sign for some kind of system. My guess is that it shoots right out of the guardrail or something along those lines.

I noticed the same thing on that hill on I-78. That must be something experimental 'cause I haven't seen in any other places.

There must be some sort of spray system from the curbline/guard rail to get it out onto the roadway. Pretty cool.

[Oswegowind 17]

is htat the stuff that makes opaque whitish lines in the road? And, shouldn't those trucks be placarded so we know what to do if they flip and leak?

Just wondering.

JVC

Same thing here...I have been seeing those lines and thinking WTF... I did not know prior to this about the liquid form, however at the Fishkill Rte 9 yard I saw a clear tank that can be mounted on a DOT Truck...guess that is what that is for! Thanks for the info!