Boston's Aggresive Aerial Placement

[Guest]

We could all be hit by a meteor at any moment. But the chances are slim.

To me it's called acceptable risk. I always wear my seat-belt, I always have my mask with me and full bunker gear, because there is almost no downside. To me not throwing the stick or ground ladders near CATV wires on the off chance that they may be energized (and not showing any signs of being energized) especially with the big potential downside of no vertical ventilation or secondary means of egress doesn't make much sense. Am I wrong? again maybe I'm crazy.

It all depends on the size up. There are too many what if's in our business. Additional info on dispatch, trapped occupants, etc......

Risk VS. Reward.

All I want is for my guys to go home to their family's in the morning. End of story!!!

[Guest]

It all depends on the size up. There are too many what if's in our business. Additional info on dispatch, trapped occupants, etc......

Risk VS. Reward.

All I want is for my guys to go home to their family's in the morning. End of story!!!

I think we agree, but are coming at it from different angles.

Risk vs Reward is exactly what I'm trying to say. If the reward is big (saving a life) you risk big. If the reward is small (surround and drown, no life safety threat) you risk small. Some are slightly more or less conservative than others in their risk vs reward calculation. It's a gray area. I don't think anyone is right or wrong (except I've seen some guys who don't want to take any risk at all ever. There's a word for them...)

I just think the 10 ft rule (in our district anyway) is not practical and not necessary if you know what you are doing. Yes if you follow it less roof guys are going to get hurt or killed, but a lot more citizens (and FF's on the inside) are going to get killed or injured. Part of our job is to risk ourselves so that others may live. I'm not saying be suicidal or reckless, but thought out calculated risk is acceptable.

I'll post a picture at some point of the wire situation where I am. I think you'll see that if we always followed the 10 ft rule we may as well not even have ladders at all.

[ny10570 745]

At a lot of jobs I saw, mainly in Yonkers and NewRochelle, they put their ladder trucks into use at almost every working structure fire.

In many cases they drove the rig onto the front lawn in order to get the aerial up on the structure, sometimes under power, CATV and phone cables.

(I'll look for pics)

Here's a good one from Thornwood, on Kensico Road with Pleasantville mutual aid ladder:

Just to clarify, on the B side Pleasntville's ladder is clear of any power lines. On the A side, Thronwood made a calculated decision based upon the very consistent ways in which local utilities string their lines. Most of the depts only use the ladder on the bucket for emergency egress so there is an extremely small chance of someone accidentally getting to close to a significantly powerful line. To attempt to split or go over lines is a different story.

Ice was a serious problem at this fire. Aerial ladders was definitely the preferred plattform for operations.

Edited January 10, 2008 by ny10570

[Remember585 815]

I've actually been to scenes where an aerial is used to push down or lift up the wires so another aerial can have access!!!

F That!

[Guest]

Here's my wire situation:

images from Google streetview.

How do I throw a ladder to that building if there is someone hanging out a window and not violate the 10 ft rule?

Lets add a few trees to make my life more difficult

The sidewalk is about 6ft wide, so the building itself isn't even respecting the 10ft rule. OSHA should fine the bulidings.

How about this one:

That's a street with 6 triple deckers on it. I don't think the street is even 10 ft wide and there are wires running down it.

Edited January 11, 2008 by firewrx612

[Guest FFNick]

I've actually been to scenes where an aerial is used to push down or lift up the wires so another aerial can have access!!!

F That!

Unfortunately, I can say that I've been there. Luckily for us, the utility company was there, and we knew for sure that the block was de-energized. Like firewrx's pictures, some of our stuff in Bpt is pretty similar.

Here's a link from www.firstduefirephotos.com - where last summer we ran into that situation again in order to get a truckie off the roof.

This was the aerial placement before they went to the roof:

http://www.firstduefirephotos.com/swf/IMG_1775.JPG

Making the "pick":

http://www.firstduefirephotos.com/swf/IMG_1784.JPG

Edited January 11, 2008 by FFNick