EMS within the FD...what's the priority?

[Guest]

I had an hour of down time this morning and was listening in on the scanner at my vac, when I heard a FD dispatched for an ems call mutual aid to another part of the town.

second tone goes out for a driver, than a tone for a commercial alarm a min or two later.

than a tone for additional manpower goes out.

...THEN, my vac gets toned out for the EMS call and we get out the door w/ in a min or two

the fd's crew goes out for the fire call AND THEN that same dept gets another EMS call and gets out the door! ...truly unbelievable

these are just facts, and for once I'll leave my opinions out of it…somewhat.

How are priorities designated in these fd's that have a EMS dept within?? im sure there are SOP's that say what will be done, rather then people doing as they feel...i hope...

Edited January 2, 2008 by TR54

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Thanks for beating me to this post. You were alot nicer than I would have been. UNBELIEVABLE.

Good way to start 2008.

[helicopper 1,050]

i had an hour of down time this morning and was listening in on the scanner at my vac, when i heard a FD dispatched for an ems call mutual aid to another part of the town.

second tone goes out for a driver, than a tone for a commercial alarm a min or two later.

than a tone for additional manpower goes out.

...THEN, my vac gets toned out for the EMS call and we get out the door w/ in a min or two

the fd's crew goes out for the fire call AND THEN that same dept gets another EMS call and gets out the door! ...truly unbelievable

these are just facts, and for once I’ll leave my opinions out of it…somewhat.

How are priorities designated in these fd’s that have a EMS dept within?? im sure there are SOP's that say what will be done, rather then people doing as they feel...i hope...

Unfortunately, I've learned that there are surprisingly FEW SOP's that spell out what you're referring too.

I would have hoped that the EMS call would take precedence over an alarm but there I go thinking again!!!!

[Guest]

Thanks for beating me to this post. You were alot nicer than I would have been. UNBELIEVABLE.

Good way to start 2008.

lol yea well im in a good mood today...but there's always the 'edit" option if i get pissy tomorrow!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Here is how I see it. There are members just dedicated to the AMB portion of the FD. I guess these are the members that couldn't get out today. The other members are dedicated to the FD portion. They could get out to go to that alarm although if you really listened PATROL stated that only FD CHIEF was on scene reporting a malfunction. Now I am not sure if that means that the FD didn't get out or not. Right after that there was another aided call in the same JURISDICTION. Did not hear if the AMB got out for that.

Did they have their PAID EMT this morn?

I would like to believe that an AIDED call TRUMPS some alarm. Of course you are going to get people on here saying "WHAT IF IT ISN"T AN ALARM BUT A WORKING FIRE" WHATEVER. You tell me the odds of that happening in the day without somebody noticing.

BOTTOM LINE. PAID EMS FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER.

[meat441 43]

Is this truely an unusual incident? Or does this happen time and time again? Around the country? My opinion, the town administrators need for these types of incidents brought to their attention. Have the Chief in charge of that department explain why this occurred. Situations to be addressed? What is the priority here? FIRE or EMS? Policies? And most of all (department heads) that allow this to happen. The problem that i see here is the (pick and choose syndrome). (Remarkable) The confirmed patient vs the malfunctioning alarm. I see where the priority is! If you want to do FIRE and EMS better have your policies in order. Or as i see it, EMS NEEDS TO BE A THIRD RESPECTED SERVICE!!!!

[Guest]

Here is how I see it. There are members just dedicated to the AMB portion of the FD. I guess these are the members that couldn't get out today. The other members are dedicated to the FD portion. They could get out to go to that alarm although if you really listened PATROL stated that only FD CHIEF was on scene reporting a malfunction. Now I am not sure if that means that the FD didn't get out or not. Right after that there was another aided call in the same JURISDICTION. Did not hear if the AMB got out for that.

Did they have their PAID EMT this morn?

I would like to believe that an AIDED call TRUMPS some alarm. Of course you are going to get people on here saying "WHAT IF IT ISN"T AN ALARM BUT A WORKING FIRE" WHATEVER. You tell me the odds of that happening in the day without somebody noticing.

BOTTOM LINE. PAID EMS FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER.

yea the for the second ems call they got out.

so say, the chief did cancel them before they got out the door, than one of there people should have got in the ambulance and gone to the call and cancelled us...i mean after all they did "merge" with the agency they were requested to cover for, right?

and the chief...is he too good to get into the ambulance after 2 or 3 tones of 60 asking for a driver??? but the second a commercial alarm comes in, BOOM, he's en route!

if an FD wants to have the responsibility for EMS, than start taking responsibility of your EMS!

oneeye, i'll say it 'til im blue in the face, i love to volunteer, but as a resident of our town i'd feel MUCH more at ease with a paid staff OR (this is where we differ) the VOLUNTEERS IN QUARTERS. paid or vollie, if you're not in quarters you're not doing anyone any good. i know you were the 1st medic in the town and i know your professional status now and i'm sure its gotta be difficult to be on scene and have limited options, other than saying "where's the bus!"

in my vac we have town cops, county cops, career medics, career techs, town board members, and other people WELL respected in our community, as im sure you're well aware of. with ALL of these people in my vac and others of an equal status in other agencies in the town, it STILL boggles my mind how WRONG our system is.

i would love nothing more than to have our own techs, not CONTRACTED techs through a corporation (take a guess of what company i'm talking about)...and that statement in no way reflects the employees of that corporation.

i would prefer the town hire their own medics, instead of contracting though that same corporation, thus creating a ALS coordinating position and to have another medic, bc honestly sharing 37M2 with 87 is the dumbest thing i've encountered. 87 should be ALS 24/7.

i'd prefer a townwide ems agency, but i know you know whos egos are blocking that!

im tired of saying the same crap all the time to people who can make change, only to have them pull my chain.

God i wish i could still curse on this forum.

mark my words, someone from another agency from the town will PM me complaining, "how could you say such things! blah, blah, blah..." others will PM me, "oh my God, how could you be so critical of our system!" not to mention people i'm even friends or aquantiances telling me "dude, you're not gonna win, just end it"

its a lose, lose situation; but the saddest part is that the people who we're supposed to be protecting or helping are the people who lose...

Edited January 2, 2008 by vacguy

[Guest]

Is EMS NEEDS TO BE A THIRD RESPECTED SERVICE!!!!

damn right!

[meat441 43]

vacguy RELAX, take a deep breath. As i stated this is common around the country? But departments won't admit to it untill brought to the publics attention. Paid or volunteer it is happening all over. NEW JERSEY is no better. Document, document, document. If i was the MUTUAL AID unit that ultimately responded i would have my department head contact that departments head. Find out why? If not satisfied then go above their head with information. It has to stop. EMS A THIRD SERVICE.

[NYMedic37 22]

Here is how I see it. There are members just dedicated to the AMB portion of the FD. I guess these are the members that couldn't get out today. The other members are dedicated to the FD portion. They could get out to go to that alarm although if you really listened PATROL stated that only FD CHIEF was on scene reporting a malfunction. Now I am not sure if that means that the FD didn't get out or not. Right after that there was another aided call in the same JURISDICTION. Did not hear if the AMB got out for that.

Did they have their PAID EMT this morn?

I would like to believe that an AIDED call TRUMPS some alarm. Of course you are going to get people on here saying "WHAT IF IT ISN"T AN ALARM BUT A WORKING FIRE" WHATEVER. You tell me the odds of that happening in the day without somebody noticing.

BOTTOM LINE. PAID EMS FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER.

====== If you did have career EMS countywide then you would get consistant, higher quality service.

[Guest]

vacguy RELAX, take a deep breath. As i stated this is common around the country? But departments won't admit to it untill brought to the publics attention. Paid or volunteer it is happening all over. NEW JERSEY is no better. Document, document, document. If i was the MUTUAL AID unit that ultimately responded i would have my department head contact that departments head. Find out why? If not satisfied then go above their head with information. It has to stop. EMS A THIRD SERVICE.

and exhale...ok, im good! lol

is this common around the country, i have no idea. i don't even pay attention to if this is a problem in the county! i'll focus on what i think i can do to make "the system" in my community better.

i normally no longer volunteer during the day, i prefer doing my shift at night, so i really don't follow this stuff unless its brought to my attention or something out of the "norm" happens.

but having some down time today, i realized why i don't like daytime duty.

[irishfire2491 24]

BOTTOM LINE. PAID EMS FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER.

If the Pay was good for EMT's in New York State which Paid EMS pay is the worst thing in the world compared to a person who pushes a few buttons on a computer and make several thousands dollars!!!!

[Guest]

If the Pay was good for EMT's in New York State which Paid EMS pay is the worst thing in the world compared to a person who pushes a few buttons on a computer and make several thousands dollars!!!!

you have to look at PD's and FD's to get what you want...you want better pay, good benefits, a good pension...you paid guys and gals need a union...

[meat441 43]

Gloucester County in south jersey is having the same problems as Westchester. Search on GOOGLE. They combined SO FAR TEN departments to begin it's county wide EMS SYSTEM. I started out as a volunteer like alot of us, BUT the time is here for REGIONALIZATION. Do volunteer organizations need to fold? How about PAID? Well how about creating a regionalized system. Volunteers merging with other volunteers. No more squads with 1 ambulance and 15 members. Merge 3 or more to form a larger more oraganized group. Think of the benefits? Could it still be volunteer? SURE. Same for some small paid departments. THE TIME HAS COME! EMS A THIRD RESPECTED SERVICE.

[GAW6 66]

No Need to PM you VACGUY - I am putting this so everyone can read it. The (2) agencies DID NOT MERGE. Get your stories straight before you make statements!

And with your thoughts about the Town running their own system - I brought that up years ago and was shot down by guess who? People that are now members of your agency!!!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

So did they have their paid EMT in the building at the time of the first call? How is it that you can drive a fire truck and not drive and ambulance. You are not being asked to perform CPR, just drive the damn AMB.

In 2008 I am going to be watching closely. I want to see just how bad it really is. I know how bad it is, I want other people to know how bad it is.

[Goose 188]

This isn't a new phenomena, it happens everywhere. The reason this happens is because no one wants to play EMS, the second a fire alarm goes out you've got everyone and their brother. The reason they probably got out on that second call is because they were all at the firehouse and couldn't exactly leave the building in good conscious if they didn't respond. It's one thing to turn the pager off and roll back over, but its another thing to leave the firehouse when you get a call...

[ex-commish 490]

No Need to PM you VACGUY - I am putting this so everyone can read it. The (2) agencies DID NOT MERGE. Get your stories straight before you make statements!

And with your thoughts about the Town running their own system - I brought that up years ago and was shot down by guess who? People that are now members of your agency!!!

Bravo GAW!!!! Couldn't of said it better. And I believe I also made the same suggestions when I was chief that ended up in certain hands of elected officials. The very same suggestions that were attached to a series of unsigned letters sent by COWARDS who for some reason were afraid to sign thier names.

[Guest]

No Need to PM you VACGUY - I am putting this so everyone can read it. The (2) agencies DID NOT MERGE. Get your stories straight before you make statements!

And with your thoughts about the Town running their own system - I brought that up years ago and was shot down by guess who? People that are now members of your agency!!!

the people you may have asked a few years ago, may not have been the people who run it now. i would love to see it attempted

and the "merge" comment was in quotes, meaning you don't take it literally. you share members, to be more literal, thats the "MERGE"

Edited January 2, 2008 by vacguy

[Guest]

Bravo GAW!!!! Couldn't of said it better. And I believe I also made the same suggestions when I was chief that ended up in certain hands of elected officials. The very same suggestions that were attached to a series of unsigned letters sent by COWARDS who for some reason were afraid to sign thier names.

same thing i told you last year...ask your own guys and gals.

your just sour that i know the answer and you don't...

Edited January 2, 2008 by vacguy

[NYMedic37 22]

Maybe things should be changed to be "FD within EMS".......after all, there are a lot more EMS runs vs fire runs. Hmmm.....ANYTOWN EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE ...and fire too. Why not make FD the red headed step child of EMS! Hee-hee-hee!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I think the Town could run their own system if they had the right people to run it. I am not talking about Fire Chiefs stick to fighting fires. I am talking LEGIT EMS PEOPLE. People who UNDERSTAND and have WORKED (not vollied) in a LARGE SYSTEM. It doens't have to be a paid service if done right. It should be, but WE ALL KNOW CERTAIN PEOPLE DON"T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. And I don't mean sharing an EMT at night with another AGENCY. Although it has worked, I can't wait until it doesn't. I wonder what will be said then.

I think everyone is off topic though. There was an EMS call. AMB couldn't get out. Then there was a Fire call at almost the same time. FD got out. Mutual Aid had to be called. Then there was another EMS run and somehow the FD AMB got out. WEIRD. So what is more important, FIRE OR EMS? If it was a pin job the WHOLE DEPT would have been there.

[ex-commish 490]

same thing i told you last year...ask your own guys and gals.

your just sour that i know the answer and you don't...

Out of respect for the other posters as well as the site administrators I will address you and this comment in private.

[Guest]

I think the Town could run their own system if they had the right people to run it. I am not talking about Fire Chiefs stick to fighting fires. I am talking LEGIT EMS PEOPLE. People who UNDERSTAND and have WORKED (not vollied) in a LARGE SYSTEM. It doens't have to be a paid service if done right. It should be, but WE ALL KNOW CERTAIN PEOPLE DON"T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. And I don't mean sharing an EMT at night with another AGENCY. Although it has worked, I can't wait until it doesn't. I wonder what will be said then.

I think everyone is off topic though. There was an EMS call. AMB couldn't get out. Then there was a Fire call at almost the same time. FD got out. Mutual Aid had to be called. Then there was another EMS run and somehow the FD AMB got out. WEIRD. So what is more important, FIRE OR EMS? If it was a pin job the WHOLE DEPT would have been there.

as for the townwide system, are you talking about only and ALS system or both?

ok, an easier answer would be, more like Greenburgh or like Larchmont/Mamaroneck?

[Guest]

Maybe things should be changed to be "FD within EMS".......after all, there are a lot more EMS runs vs fire runs. Hmmm.....ANYTOWN EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE ...and fire too. Why not make FD the red headed step child of EMS! Hee-hee-hee!

there you go! instead of FF's ATTEMPTING to collar and board a pt, and do our jobs...how about ems grab the nozzle next time they gotta fire to put out?? maybe, we'll grab the jaws and start cutting...I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT REACTION...

[Guest]

This is such a never ending cycle of "WTF Syndrome".

If the call was after 6am, the paid EMT should have been there. But that's not the case in point up for debate here. Since the conception of having a paid EMT there, this is the first time I've heard of such an incident occurring. But that doesn't meant that when they've gotten toned out for a fire call, then an EMS call, they haven't been able to get the bus out. It's sad that there are those within agencies that continue to pick and choose the calls they respond to. I hope the heirarchy there nips this one in the butt fast and ensures it will never happen again. Having a paid EMT there really helps. But it means nothing at all if a certain few continue to ignore the fact that they are still needed to respond to get that paid EMT to the call.

ONEEYEMEDIC right, paid is the way to go. I'm a vollie in EMS and fire.....but citizens who rely on emergency assistance, should wait forever to get that help. It's just the way things have regressed over the last decade. THere are fewer and fewer people willing to answer the call on a volunteer basis. Should volunteerism be banished forever? No, but it sbhould be supplemented with a paid staff during peak hours to ensunre timley responses and effective care.

[Monty 35]

A couple of things come to mind. It seems in WC that there are a lot of 'companies' that pretty much act independently of other companies in that department. I don't know the Dept in question here, but maybe the Fire Company had a driver and was not affiliated with the EMS side.

Maybe the responder for the second call started to head for the first call but took a long time to get there, or was in the shower or something.

From what I know it seems OVAC works well, my other experience of a good ems system is Town Of Colonie EMS. They work pretty well with the FD's and are a mixture of paid and un-paid paramedics, EMT's and drivers.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this - but I guess its that change happens slowly, and that people (politicians / taxpayers) need to be educated and made to care.

[EMTbravo 312]

Since this is a legitamate issue, and many members have made excellent points, I will and want to let this thread remain open for discussion.

However, I did recieve information from a few members concerned that one member posting on this thread does have a documented history of having an issue with a certain agency. For the sake of keeping this discussion going, I'd like to ask that this thread be kept at a professional level, and not used to (consistently) rant against a specific agency, even if the agency is not stated but implied.

Please, let's keep this forum at a mature and professional level. Let's treat all topics as if we were in a room talking to one another, and show respect, no matter how much you disagree with someone else's opinion.

[GAW6 66]

. If i was the MUTUAL AID unit that ultimately responded i would have my department head contact that departments head. Find out why? If not satisfied then go above their head with information. It has to stop.

I can answer that without going to any department heads. The agency that needed the mutual aid was already tied up on another call.

I can remember the days when you were more than glad to do a mutual aid call for "your neighbors". I can also remember the days when our Police Officers were grateful for the volunteers. Now some of them won't even speak to you nor give you a hand with anything, they stand there and just watch with their arms folded. Talk about where your tax dollars are going!!!!

[Guest]

Since this is a legitamate issue, and many members have made excellent points, I will and want to let this thread remain open for discussion.

However, I did recieve information from a few members concerned that one member posting on this thread does have a documented history of having an issue with a certain agency. For the sake of keeping this discussion going, I'd like to ask that this thread be kept at a professional level, and not used to (consistently) rant against a specific agency, even if the agency is not stated but implied.

Please, let's keep this forum at a mature and professional level. Let's treat all topics as if we were in a room talking to one another, and show respect, no matter how much you disagree with someone else's opinion.

ugh, oook lol

Edited January 2, 2008 by vacguy