Mutual Aid - Who Covers Who

[61MACKBR1 222]

Given some of the recent Multiple Alarm Fires in and around Westchester County, is there a Plan within the County DES, that clearly indicates what Municipal Fire Department covers or assists other cities, in cases of Multiple Alarm Fires that exhausts that cities firefighting capabilites? I read on here that at the recent Eastchester Multiple Alarm Fire, New Rochelle FD came in with 2 and 1 to assist with fighting the fire, and Mount Vernon FD came to Eastchester to cover stations with a 1 and 1. I also see that New Rochelle FD covers for Mount Vernon when FDMV has a Multiple Alarm Fires. Other than Greenburgh, who comes into Yonkers when they have a Multiple Alarm Fire, as part of the Mutual Aide Program and who does Yonkers FD help assist as part of the Countywide Mutual Aid Program? (Given that both New Rochelle and Mount Vernon as 2 of the 4 largest cities in our County, I would think that YFD would help cover, and given Yonkers close boarder to Eastchester, that YFD would also help our Eastchester as well). Does anyone know what the standard Mutual Aid Plans are for these cities?

[lad12derff 283]

New Rochelle responds to Mt Vernon, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Eastchester and Yonkers. We have also gone to White Plains on a few occasions. We are usually called first by Mount Vernon I would say because of our staffing level. We do not usually send a truck out of town without an officer on it unless the $hit is hitting the fan. We will send an officer to meet the truck if needed or wait to detail one over to 2 truck from another house. 2 truck and 2 engine have "traditionally" been the out of town companies. As for Yonkers They frown upon going out of town if they are going to baby sit the firehouse and not go to work. Any time I went to Yonkers they were pretty quick in getting overtime in to put in extra rigs to cover the city. They feel that since they do it everyone should and they have a valid point.

[FirNaTine 370]

The only reason FDMV sends m/a to other municipalities is because they feel obligated to since they recieve it so much, even for the smallest of fires. That's because of a lack of manpower and equipment. They're still without a 3rd ladder truck. What amazes me is how they'll send a ladder out of town on m/a, leaving the City with only one. YFD has the right idea and kudos to them for bailing on the VERN with regards to m/a. It's mindboggling though why the Vern still sends m/a to Yonkers, even when they don't reciprocate. I guess they want to look like they're the good guy and not hold grudges. Unfortunately, its the men and the citizens who will ultimately pay the price for this irrational thinking. Hopefully there will be a change for the better with the new administration taking Office.

[firecapt32 282]

Each Chief can request what apparatus they want for mutual aid. They can do this on a yearly basis. YFD has stated that they will respond to go to work- but requested not to be called to sit in a station. YFD can handle a third alarm easily with out calling in any mutual aid from the County. New Rochelle and White Plains can easily handle a second , Mount Vernon might be stretched a little to handle a second with out the third Truck.

Manpower is another issue -my feeling- and its my own i-s that when a department is useing mutual aid- it should have a system in place to get their manpower back (recall) as soon as possible. Mutual aid is not a subsitute for manpower-- it is to be used for the big one not the everyday bread and butter fire.

[Remember585 815]

As stated already, each Department submits an Mutual Aid Card to 60 Control, usually each year. It states the Chief's preferences for Engines, Ladders, Tankers & Rescues. I think they go as deep as your first six preferences.

The best thing any department can do is create the Greater Alarm Plans. On this level you get 1 & 1 for coverage, on a 2nd alarm you get another 1 & 1, etc. etc.

There's also a "pick list" for FAS Teams too.

Hope this helps.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Each Chief can request what apparatus they want for mutual aid. They can do this on a yearly basis. YFD has stated that they will respond to go to work- but requested not to be called to sit in a station. YFD can handle a third alarm easily with out calling in any mutual aid from the County. New Rochelle and White Plains can easily handle a second , Mount Vernon might be stretched a little to handle a second with out the third Truck.

Manpower is another issue -my feeling- and its my own i-s that when a department is useing mutual aid- it should have a system in place to get their manpower back (recall) as soon as possible. Mutual aid is not a subsitute for manpower-- it is to be used for the big one not the everyday bread and butter fire.

Do the recall members live in town? Who does the recall, wil it tie up a Dispatcher? How fast can they get back in town, without driving crazy. What apparatus do they use, or do they go right to scene? Do they have to get gear at the station first? All this sounds good to get the guys some OT but how fast and efficient is this system? Mutual aid = Manpower.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Ladder47

[Bnechis 3,961]

Do the recall members live in town? Who does the recall, wil it tie up a Dispatcher? How fast can they get back in town, without driving crazy. What apparatus do they use, or do they go right to scene? Do they have to get gear at the station first? All this sounds good to get the guys some OT but how fast and efficient is this system? Mutual aid = Manpower.

We recall members using a web based phone system that calls multi members at a time (up to all in 60 seconds).

Dispatch has told us they will not do it. So we have 2 call back coordinators, who can handle it from any phone or PC. The DC advises them how much personnel and they send the message accordingly. Member get notified at home, cell, pager, E-mail & blackberry at sametime. Unless its an all hands callback, members can phone acknowledge (ie. press 1 responding) when the required #'s are met they can advise no others needed.

We dont limit to in-town, because members maybe intown, but not live intown. We expect members who are too far away only to call in if it sounds like this may go on for extended (it takes them 45 min to respond, to a 6 hr fire may be fine).

Driving crazy? like some of the blue lighters do?

All members called back are to respond to their Fire Station (to get gear and sign onduty and call in for assignments). Members maybe assigned to spare apparatus (ISO requires 1 spare engine for up to 7 front line eng., same for ladder. so if you own 1 engine or 1 ladder, ISO requires a spare for each)

Often, the IC will request manpower to the scene. then members will go in a dept vehicle.

We can usually get a dozen members in 15-20 minutes. This does not replace MA. but it helps limit the need for it.

[TL2L31 8]

The whole mutual aid system still amazes me. For years, Rye and Port Chester had a strong system in place for each other. Then personalities conflicted and it all went to hell. Take last nights fire in Rye for example. I am not in any way trying to offend the companies that responded and provided assistance to this incident. Port Chester has 5 engines 2 ladders, and a heavy rescue that are available and respond fully staffed. I know that we wont send all of the volunteer companies, but this is what we have. Why would Rye call for help from such distances as West Harrison or the Town of Mamaroneck when help is just 5 minutes away? The decisions from some people just amaze me.

[turk182 37]

The whole mutual aid system still amazes me. For years, Rye and Port Chester had a strong system in place for each other. Then personalities conflicted and it all went to hell. Take last nights fire in Rye for example. I am not in any way trying to offend the companies that responded and provided assistance to this incident. Port Chester has 5 engines 2 ladders, and a heavy rescue that are available and respond fully staffed. I know that we wont send all of the volunteer companies, but this is what we have. Why would Rye call for help from such distances as West Harrison or the Town of Mamaroneck when help is just 5 minutes away? The decisions from some people just amaze me.

Not to start or continue anything but West Harrison was called as the FAST (which to the best of my knowledge Port Chester does not have). Town of Mamaroneck was called for their cascade. That aside personalities certainly play a part in the choice of who is called, in some cases it my or may not be justified.

[TL2L31 8]

Not to start or continue anything but West Harrison was called as the FAST (which to the best of my knowledge Port Chester does not have). Town of Mamaroneck was called for their cascade. That aside personalities certainly play a part in the choice of who is called, in some cases it my or may not be justified.

When a FAST team is called in and now strips that dept of most of their manpower and mutual aid may now be needed to called in to cover their town, is just calling a closet available engine company a more feasable solution? Rescue 40 has Fast team certified members and E63 can fill bottles if needed. I just think closer is better when peoples lives are at risk. This stupidity among commanders is why I chose long ago not to be one and stay in the lower ranks. I will never be held responsible for making a bonehead decision.

[25truck26 29]

TL2L31 there are people on the other side of the border that do see and understand what you are talking about. But very little you can do when a Chief makes the call and sticks to their ways. Maybe in the near future that will all change. PC has a lot of resources no doubt.

[JBJ1202 27]

I'm pretty sure that the PCFD FAST is out of service at this moment. I am well aware they have certified members and have responded in the past, but i believe they have been taken temporarily OOS.

With West Harrison having the only FAST in the sound shore they have a solid response area to cover, and more power to them. Every wednesday night they have FAST training and are very dedicated. I know they are the first FAST on our working fire assignment.

Purchase has a mutual aid plan in affect for up to a 3rd alarm. The plan utilizes most of the sound shore departments by the 3rd alarm for an engine, ladder, FAST, or cascade.

Edited January 2, 2008 by JBJ1202

[JBE 328]

Let me ask a question, and I believe I have asked this before. This subject has been brought up numerous times in the past. Why doesn't the county Fire Coordinator step up and say, "We are going to formulate a county wide Mutual Aid system."

1. The Coordinator and the Deputy Coordinators set up the plan and tell the chiefs of each department that this is how it's going to be.

2. Any issues with it will be taken into consideration, and they will try to accomodate the requests of the chiefs.

3. Mutual Aid will be dispatched by location of incident, and CLOSEST AVAIALABLE resources that the IC requests.

I'm going to use the Carmel area as an example of what I mean because it is where I have more knowledge.

Fire in Vista on the Lake on Stoneleigh Avenue.

12-1-2(IC) has a fire in two townhouses in the development. Requests 1 engine, 1 tanker and a FAST Team to the scene with 1 Engine on Standby into Carmel's firehouse.

Putnam 911 complies with the request. Dispatches Croton Falls for the Engine, Mahopac for the Tanker, and Brewster or Somers for a FAST Team, then makes the relocation of an Engine from Lake Carmel or Kent to cover Carmel.

It may be wishful thinking, but you should want what is best for the people you serve. and not have to tiptoe around BS disagreements or personality conflicts between chiefs of local departments. If the chief doesn't like what the coordinators have set forward, gee, too bad. Gotta play nice in the sandbox.

When a multiple alarm is transmitted, this is where the chiefs of each department can have a say as to what constitutes response on a multiple. We'll say two engines and a tanker with an ambulance toned out. However, where they will come from will also come under the closest available criteria.

12-1-2 dumps a second alarm, he gets another Engine from Mahopac, an Engine from Brewster, a Tanker from Lake Carmel or Kent, and 31-7-1 from Carmel VAC.

Any responding chiefs from other departments will be given tasks by 12-1-2, and then ordered to assignment by either the Deputy Fire Coordinator, or Fire Coordinator upon arrival at the scene.

Edited January 2, 2008 by JBE

[JBE 328]

Just to add to this, if for the sake of argument, after a certain amount of time (we'll say 8-10 minutes) a requested mutual aid unit has not responded to multiple tone outs, the dispatcher will tone out the next closest department, or re-direct the relocator into the scene and back fill as necessary.

Say Brewster doesn't get out with the FAST Team, Somers gets toned out as FAST. Kent doesn't get a crew up to relocate to Carmel, Lake Carmel or Patterson gets banged out to relocate, or Kent responds on the relocation and someone else doesn't get out, Kent goes into the scene and Carmel gets backfilled from Patterson.

[TL2L31 8]

I'm pretty sure that the PCFD FAST is out of service at this moment. I am well aware they have certified members and have responded in the past, but i believe they have been taken temporarily OOS.

With West Harrison having the only FAST in the sound shore they have a solid response area to cover, and more power to them. Every wednesday night they have FAST training and are very dedicated. I know they are the first FAST on our working fire assignment.

Purchase has a mutual aid plan in affect for up to a 3rd alarm. The plan utilizes most of the sound shore departments by the 3rd alarm for an engine, ladder, FAST, or cascade.

You are in a different position being so close to the FAST team. My question is do you call a FAST team that is 15-20 minutes away or do you call an engine, truck or rescue to do a search that is only 5 miutes away?

[emt688 0]

Let me ask a question, and I believe I have asked this before. This subject has been brought up numerous times in the past. Why doesn't the county Fire Coordinator step up and say, "We are going to formulate a county wide Mutual Aid system."

1. The Coordinator and the Deputy Coordinators set up the plan and tell the chiefs of each department that this is how it's going to be.

2. Any issues with it will be taken into consideration, and they will try to accomodate the requests of the chiefs.

3. Mutual Aid will be dispatched by location of incident, and CLOSEST AVAIALABLE resources that the IC requests.

The country has already setup a Mutual Aid plan that they've required all agencies to ratify. The agreement is an official document, and I will try to lay my hands on it again, but to summarize it states that you agree to be part of the County Mutual Aid plan. There is also the CEMP - Country Emergency Management Plan, which you can get somewhere on westchestergov.com, and lists the capabilities of each agency that has subscribed to the mutual aid agreement, but doesn't get into the nitty-gritty planning of what will happen if X happens in Hastings, for example, who will be dispatched and how. How is still a problem in that not all agencies in the County are dispatched by 60 Control.

I am in two minds as to whether having all Fire and EMS dispatched by 60 control is a good thing or a bad thing. Of course I would like Emergency Medical Dispatch to be able to triage the BLS calls and to determine when a Paramedic is really needed.

In your suggestion, it would only work in a paid system, where people had to 'do the right thing' and respond appropriately, but with an all volunteer system, staffing, commitment, and relationships can all be problematic.

ICS-100 does dictate that the closest available units respond. In a multi-alarm or MCI, it would be to a staging area that is close to the incident. For the most part, the respond to quarters to cover xxx units is an appropriate response to this level of incident command -- but never when it puts the responding units geographic area at risk.

-Just some thoughts.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Let me ask a question, and I believe I have asked this before. This subject has been brought up numerous times in the past. Why doesn't the county Fire Coordinator step up and say, "We are going to formulate a county wide Mutual Aid system."

1. The Coordinator and the Deputy Coordinators set up the plan and tell the chiefs of each department that this is how it's going to be.

2. Any issues with it will be taken into consideration, and they will try to accomodate the requests of the chiefs.

3. Mutual Aid will be dispatched by location of incident, and CLOSEST AVAIALABLE resources that the IC requests.

Lots of issues here:

1) The fire coordinator does not have the legal authority or the legal reponsability to do it. Both rest with the local fire chief.

2) When you have career chiefs who have worked up thru the ranks for 30+ years they may have a better grasp than an appointed indivudual that may or may not have the experience (and I'm not picking on anyone or even thinking of an individual here)

3) Closest available is only useful if they have proper manning and proper training and supervision. i.e. If we can get a ladder MA in 4 minutes with a 60y/o driver and an new ff with ff1 almost completed on it, or wait 8 min to get 3ff's /1 officer all well seasond should we go with the closest unit or....?

If the chief doesn't like what the coordinators have set forward, gee, too bad. Gotta play nice in the sandbox.

Actually the chiefs responsibility is to provide a proper response to his area, the coordinators are there to coordinate his requests not to dictate. While you should play nice, this has nothing to do with it.

When a multiple alarm is transmitted, this is where the chiefs of each department can have a say as to what constitutes response on a multiple. We'll say two engines and a tanker with an ambulance toned out. However, where they will come from will also come under the closest available criteria.

See closest above. This is also the reason that OFPC set up the staging system for FDNY. They check to make sure you are qualified before you can go MA. If you review the training CD that they use and check for complance you find that many depts in Westchester have very few members that actually meet the minimum standards under OSHA to repond in there own district, much less on MA. It is possible that the records are not correct, but the courts always follow the concept "ifits not documented, it was not done"

Any responding chiefs from other departments will be given tasks by 12-1-2, and then ordered to assignment by either the Deputy Fire Coordinator, or Fire Coordinator upon arrival at the scene.

The assignments should come from the IC, not the Coordinator.

Under NIMS what title does the Coordinator get and what is his responsability?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Just to add to this, if for the sake of argument, after a certain amount of time (we'll say 8-10 minutes) a requested mutual aid unit has not responded to multiple tone outs, the dispatcher will tone out the next closest department, or re-direct the relocator into the scene and back fill as necessary.

If this is occuring why? if a dept can not get out MA or in its own district in this time who is responsable?

[JBE 328]

B, I want to thank you for your response. I am basing my ideas on past experiences and presumptions about how things worked in my vollie days(10 years removed). I felt that some of my opinions could be put into practice in a perfect world, paid or vollie, doesn't matter. As far as who takes responsibility when a unit from a Mutual Aid department can't make the required response, it's pretty hard to place sanctions on the department with all the variables you have to deal with. When it came to Coordinators, I was under the impression that they handled Incident Command in one way or another when they responded/operated at an incident.

[helicopper 1,050]

ICS-100 does dictate that the closest available units respond.

Could you please direct me to where this is written? ICS is a management process and does not dictate how to request or direct resources specifically. As such, there is no mandate for the "closest available units to respond". Quite the contrary, ICS promotes requesting the RIGHT resources for the task to be performed even if they are not the closest. That's why resource typing is such an important part of NIMS compliance. If you need a Type 3 Search and Rescue team, you should order a Type 3 SAR. If you need a type 1 Haz-Mat Team, order the type 1 and so on...

[emt688 0]

Could you please direct me to where this is written? ICS is a management process and does not dictate how to request or direct resources specifically. As such, there is no mandate for the "closest available units to respond". Quite the contrary, ICS promotes requesting the RIGHT resources for the task to be performed even if they are not the closest. That's why resource typing is such an important part of NIMS compliance. If you need a Type 3 Search and Rescue team, you should order a Type 3 SAR. If you need a type 1 Haz-Mat Team, order the type 1 and so on...

I stand corrected. What I meant to say was that the Logistics Manager would develop a list of available units to respond to any given incident and to prioritize the response based on the incident commander's requests. That is to say that the process of 'right sizing' and 'correct sizing' the response is covered under the chain of command in ICS-100.

[Monty 35]

....

This is also the reason that OFPC set up the staging system for FDNY. They check to make sure you are qualified before you can go MA. If you review the training CD that they use and check for complance you find that many depts in Westchester have very few members that actually meet the minimum standards under OSHA to repond in there own district, much less on MA. It is possible that the records are not correct, but the courts always follow the concept "ifits not documented, it was not done"

.....

I think this is a very true, and key point that should be addressed first - maybe through the mutual aid plan ie that you only get & give MA if you have the qualified trained firefighters available. As mentioned elsewhere, my prior department was part of a town mutual aid plan that was quite rigid in stating that all members had to be FF1 / Basic firefighter / Essentials, hazmat ops trained within a year and at least the annual OSHA and hazmat training as ongoing training.

If this is occuring why? if a dept can not get out MA or in its own district in this time who is responsable?

I'd say the IC. It's his/her job to manage life safety, incident stabilization, property conservation. If he doesn't have the required resources available, then s/he can ask for more, through the County, State, Feds if need be.

Now realistically, if it becomes a regular event that MA can't be provided, then I'm sure the IC will know and not bother asking (isn't that happening elsewhere with both career and volunteer departments), or ask for additional aid at the same time.

[helicopper 1,050]

I stand corrected. What I meant to say was that the Logistics Manager would develop a list of available units to respond to any given incident and to prioritize the response based on the incident commander's requests. That is to say that the process of 'right sizing' and 'correct sizing' the response is covered under the chain of command in ICS-100.

OK - that makes more sense. But keep in mind, the Logistics Section probably won't be established until sometime during the first operational period, long after many of the initial mutual aid requests have been made (and hopefully filled).

And Logistics probably won't make a list of what's available to respond - they'll make a list of what's NEEDED and then work to fill that order.

I think there's a lot of confusion associated with logistics vs. mutual aid/resource coordination. The Deputy Coordinator or person tasked with coordinating mutual aid may not be the Logistics Section Chief. It all depends on how the organization develops.

[helicopper 1,050]

Lots of issues here:

1) The fire coordinator does not have the legal authority or the legal reponsability to do it. Both rest with the local fire chief.

2) When you have career chiefs who have worked up thru the ranks for 30+ years they may have a better grasp than an appointed indivudual that may or may not have the experience (and I'm not picking on anyone or even thinking of an individual here)

3) Closest available is only useful if they have proper manning and proper training and supervision. i.e. If we can get a ladder MA in 4 minutes with a 60y/o driver and an new ff with ff1 almost completed on it, or wait 8 min to get 3ff's /1 officer all well seasond should we go with the closest unit or....?

Actually the chiefs responsibility is to provide a proper response to his area, the coordinators are there to coordinate his requests not to dictate. While you should play nice, this has nothing to do with it.

See closest above. This is also the reason that OFPC set up the staging system for FDNY. They check to make sure you are qualified before you can go MA. If you review the training CD that they use and check for complance you find that many depts in Westchester have very few members that actually meet the minimum standards under OSHA to repond in there own district, much less on MA. It is possible that the records are not correct, but the courts always follow the concept "ifits not documented, it was not done"

The assignments should come from the IC, not the Coordinator.

Under NIMS what title does the Coordinator get and what is his responsability?

Great points (as usual)!

Under NIMS, the Coordinator will get whatever title is appropriate for the assignment that they are taking from the IC. There is a lot of flexibility here and unless someone specifically spells it out in their own agency's plans/procedures it is going to be incident dependent. Remember NIMS is a framework and not everything is going to be spelled out therein.

[x635 4,066]

and who does Yonkers FD help assist as part of the Countywide Mutual Aid Program? (Given that both New Rochelle and Mount Vernon as 2 of the 4 largest cities in our County, I would think that YFD would help cover, and given Yonkers close boarder to Eastchester, that YFD would also help our Eastchester as well). Does anyone know what the standard Mutual Aid Plans are for these cities?

I want to preface my comments by saying I'm in no way affiliated with YFD, and am just making this comment as an observer. I apologize if I am errornous in any of my comments, and hope someone from Yonkers will correct me if I am.

Yonkers FD is the largest fire agency in Westchester County, and I think besides New Rochelle the only one that properly staff it's frontline comapnies. Yonkers FD will respond ANYWHERE, ANYTIME (You want them to go to Austrailia-they'll go!). When you call Yonkers, for an Engine, let's say, you are going to get 4 guys, very well trained, with experience. That's a great reassurance when calling for them, but it's also easy to see how that can be abused.

One of the highlighted problems is, when they get to a scene in another jurisdiction, and when they arrive the (former) commisioner will send his own personel home to avoid paying overtime. It's situations like that that are a slap in the face.

I THINK, and this is only my opinion- that Yonkers FD doesn't want to have to be a crutch for other departments, and is actually taking a stand against it. They're an aggresive department, and that pays off- if you look at their staffing and equipment, they know what they want and get it. That's a lesson right there. A typical house fire shouldn't require mutual aid, especially in Mount Vernon. Mount Vernon should have sufficient manning, but because of the politicians in that city, they don't. They think that every time they have a fire, everyone will come to help, therefore they rationalize that they really don't need to properly staff. I would also think that Yonkers FD wouldn't want to be repeatedly called to relocate, and strip the citizens of Yonkers from fire protection. The citizens of Yonkers don't pay taxes so their firefighters can go fight fires in Mount Vernon. I would think that firefighters in Mount Vernon wouldn't want mutual aid all the time either, that they'd like to handle their simple fires on their own, much like YFD does. How often do you hear Yonkers calling for MA?

Mutual aid is abused, as mentioned. Mutual aid should be for large scale incidents only. EVERY muncipality in Westchester (with the exception of tankers) should have sufficient enough manpower and equipment to handle a bread and butter fire. If not, they should merge with another department who has the resources and other tools to protect their community. For example, maybe Mount Vernon should fire their fire commisioners, and contract with Yonkers for fire protection. All the Mount Vernon staff could be transferred to YFD, and get the better pay, benefits, and most importantly, proper staffing and equipment-that they and their citizens rightly deserve.

And I don't think it's a financial matter when it comes to staffing and equipment, it's a leadership issue. Look at Scarsdale. Great bunch of guys, but lousy run down apparatus and low pay. It's one of the nation's wealthiest communities. You think they don't have the money to have good equipment and proper manpower? They do. With their new Chief, I believe these issues will begin to resolve.

It's a double edged sword, it really is.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Seth - Your comments were well said and clearly communicated. When you said "For example, maybe Mount Vernon should fire their fire commisioners, and contract with Yonkers for fire protection. All the Mount Vernon staff could be transferred to YFD, and get the better pay, benefits, and most importantly, proper staffing and equipment-that they and their citizens rightly deserve." you may have hit a potential bullseye, but I am not sure if it would go anywhere in Westchester County.

Like many areas throughout the country, rather than having individual city, town or village fire departments, some have adoped "District", "Regional" or "County" Fire Departments. Correct me please if I am not correct, but wasn't there some recent talk about "Merging" several Fire Departments (ie: New Rochelle, Mount Vernon, and Pelham)? Maybe having a Southern Westchester Fire District, comprising of Yonkers, Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Eastchester, Hastings, Dobbs Ferry, Greenville, Larchmont and Ardsley, maybe an idea worth looking into. As well, you could have a Central Westchester Fire District, comprising of Elmsford, Hartsdale, Fairview, White Plains, Harrison, North White Plains, Rye, Blind Brook, Mamaroneck, and Port Chester. And then a Northern Westchester Fire District, with those combined communities within the Northern Section of Westchester County.

All would be controlled and managed by the Westchester County - Department of Emergency Services, dispatched by 60 Control, with sets of District Cheifs, Assistant Chiefs, etc.

Now for the complicated part. You have the Unions that would certainly not be in favor of such a plan. Then getting all of the Cities, Towns and Villages that dispatch their own Fire Departments (ie: Mount Vernon, Yonkers, etc) to all work out of 60 Control in Valhalla, would certainly present another roadblock to hurdle.

Just a concept that I would be interested in hearing what others might have to say about?

[gss131 212]

[Bnechis 3,961]

All would be controlled and managed by the Westchester County - Department of Emergency Services, dispatched by 60 Control, with sets of District Cheifs, Assistant Chiefs, etc.

I think the big hurdle to this is has been in the news the last 6 weeks; how many people (not emergency service types) have been calling for the ellimination of county government.

I don't see a lot of trust in our county government in general.

On the fire side, where is the majority of the fire experience along with fire service managment experience. is it in the county government or in the 4 cities?

[FirNaTine 370]

Excellent post Seth and you hit the nail on the head. I guarantee a majority of times its politics and personalities that stand in the way of increasing staffing levels and purchasing new equipment, not because of a lack of $$$$. Hell, with all the grants now available to allocate additional equipment and staffing, there's no reason CAREER DEPTS. should be shorthanded. You just need somebody to take the bull by the horns, show a little initiative, and start applying for them, instead if sitting around all day complaining. There's even professional grant writers out there for hire. All too often many think consolidation or merging Depts. is the answer. I say that should be used as a last resort. Maybe it would be justifiable for the smaller combo Depts. in lower West.Cnty but not for a larger City such as MT.Vernon, especially in todays day in age. There should be no reason for it. Besides, if one Depts. standards are lower than a neighboring Depts. standards as far as hiring practices, how could you even justify it. I know I'd be pretty pissed off if my Dept. merged with a neighboring Dept. that had lower or even no standards at all for becoming a ff. and was known for skipping guys when it came to promotions and holding on too and carrying thru to their retirement incompetent individuals. Why should someone get the same salary as me that didn't have to meet the same stringent criteria that I had to, and were practically handed their job! Then again, maybe that would be the answer to this never ending saga!

[61MACKBR1 222]

While I agree that some departments have higher standards than others (as it relates to hiring, promotions, etc), combining departments and having EVERYONE required to meet the "HIGHEST" Standards available, might make more sense. This way, there would be no questions regarding who had trained FAST teams, SOP Trained Personnel, etc. EVERY FIRE DISTRICT, say all run by the WCDES, would all have to have the same Trained Personnel Requirements, no matter if it was all CAREER manned, a Combination of CAREER and VOLLEY or ALL VOLLEY. "EVERYONE" would be required to meet the SAME highest standards. (This was, deserant individuals, such as the person in Mount Vernon, would have a Fair Shot at a Promotion)

Again, maybe requiring everyone to meet the SAME STANDARDS would improve Westchester County's OVERALL Firefighting Capabilities, unified under 1 Level of Control, separated by different "Districts" could improve the quality of Fire Fighting for all citizens of Westchester County?

It works extremely well in other COUNTIES throughout the Country (Los Angeles County, Gwinnett County GA, etc)