"Alarms" of fire

[helicopper 1,050]

OK, in the FDNY or other large FD's it is fairly easy to follow a multiple alarm assignment. You know you're getting 3 of A, 2 of B, 1 of C, and a whole host of special stuff when you pull the pin and ask for the next level alarm.

But here in Westchester (or Putnam, Rockland, Dutchess for that matter) when you hear an agency call for a second (or higher) alarm, is it always a uniform response (2 of A, 1 of B, etc.)? I've heard varying second alarm assignments that call into question the consistency of the response. If it's not uniform is it simply based upon each FD's run assignments in the CAD? If it is totally different, there really is no way to assess the number of "multiple alarm" fires because the definition is different everywhere you look.

Just curious...

[x129K 1,393]

In Dutchess it is preset alarm assignments based on departmental needs.

[201/65 94]

Same here in Orange County, each alarm assignment is set up to the specs of each department.

I know in my district, our 2nd alarm assignment brings in less than some departments "working fire dispatch". With the exception of the specialty boxes (the 2 schools) a 2nd alarm assignment in my district only gets you a FAST, EMS, FI's, Power Co., & a County Coordinatior to the scene, and 2 engines (or engine & tanker on some boxes) to standby. Keep in mind our 1st alarm assignment is only our department (3 engines, 1 truck, & 1 tanker) and thats if they're all in service and get manned.

3rd alarm assignment is no better. 2 standby companies move up, and Coldenham's rescue is added for the cascade to the scene. And the standby companies get back filled.

So example. "3rd Alarm" in the center of our village only has 5 engines, 1 truck, 1 rescue, 1 tanker, & a FAST. Again thats if nothing is out of service, and every suppression piece rolls.

Very much differientiates from one of our neighboring departments, who on the first alarm in the village for any reported structure fire has thier equipment (3 engines, & 1 truck), m/a FAST, m/a truck, & m/a engine to the scene. and the second alarm bring an add'l engine, rescue, & truck to the scene, along with the little goodies (EMS, FI, Power Co, ect.). Right there there 2nd alarm has the same as our "3rd alarm".

[EJS1810 7]

In Putnam there are no preset Alarm levels. Mutual Aid is called by the Incident Commander as needed. I would love to see preset alarm levels but it's like that elusive Christmas gift, you want it but never get it.

I believe preset alarm levels based on type of occupency (Residential, Commercial, Special, etc) make both the Incident Commanders and the Dispatchers job that much easier. No thinking about who you want(Carmel or Mahopac Falls), just what you want(2 Tankers and 1 Engine)

[Guest]

I know I am not in the area anymore but our county has pre set box running assignment cards for every department in the county. It is also standardized as far as what you get as far as 1st , 2nd, 3rd alarm . We generly know what we are getting and who we are getting it from. We have coppies of these running assignments at each station so you can look up and see when your CO. is due at a particular area or incindent.

[firemoose827 324]

Everything here is done manually by the IC with the aid of the Fire Coordinators, whos primary purpose in life is to handle the Mutual Aid and offer assistance to chiefs who request it. If we have a structure we are toned out, and whatever equipment we can get a driver for rolls. Once on scene the IC will "Special Call" engines, tankers, or manpower from mutual aid companies. We have no "alarms", just a chief hollering on the radio for everyone to drop what their doing and get to the scene.

But we are FAR BEHIND the times here, and have a LOT of catching up to do. Im surprised no one in the county has been shut down yet due to not following NFPA and OSHA guidelines....BUT, thats another topic!!

[Bnechis 3,961]

NFPA 1710 Section 5.2.4.3 Additional Alarm Assignments.

5.2.4.3.1 The fire department shall have the capability for additional alarm assignments that can provide for additional personnel and additional services, including the application of water to the fire; engagement in search and rescue, forcible entry, ventilation, and preservation of property; accountability for personnel; and provision of support activities for those situations that are beyond the capability of the initial full alarm assignment.

The fire service motto of 100 years of tradition unspoiled by progress is proven incorrect with this section. The fire service has collectively forgotten what the original concept of 1st , 2nd , and 3rd alarm was. When the alarm telegraph box was the only communications system and someone pulled an alarm box, every station was toned out with the box number and would look on the chart on the wall to determine if there company was assigned to respond to that box. Upon arrival at incident, if additional resources were needed the chief would send a firefighter down the street to the next alarm box (or would reset the initial box and retransmit), this firefighter would transmit the “2nd Alarm”, remaining companies would not know if this was a 2nd alarm or a separate fire a block away and would send the same complement as the 1st alarm assignment. If the fire required still more resources the chief would send a firefighter to transmit a 3rd alarm and so on.

This standard does not need to address whether a department’s 1st alarm response is 2 engines and 1 ladder (if it meets the total manpower needs addressed elsewhere) or they send 5 engines and 4 ladders, but I do feel that each subsequent alarm should duplicate the 1st alarm assignment. It makes no sense for a department with only 5 engines and 3 ladders (32 members) to consider sending every thing as being a 3rd alarm when the neighboring departments 3rd alarm is 12 engines, 6 ladders, 1 rescue and 3 chiefs (108 members).

This will likely require that small to medium size departments will require call back and/or mutual aid to respond a 2nd or 3rd alarm, but then they will all know what is coming and it will provide better protection to our members and the public. Lets go back to tradition and make an alarm an alarm.

[Guest EFFP411]

Well, all I know is first alarm for us is all four stations, 6 of A, 1 of B, 4 of C, 2 of D, 1 of F, G, and H... lol Second alarm calls out the rest of the galaxy! (I have exact ssignments for each station written down somewhere, but the question is where.....)

Edited December 27, 2007 by EFFP411

[Remember585 815]

That was an interesting little piece of history, thanks Captain Barry!

In Westchester, the "10-75," "2nd Alarm," "3rd Alarm," "4th Alarm" and "5th Alarm" levels in the CAD are programmed per each Deparment's own policies. Some departments haven't even developed a "10-75" still, but that's a whole different story.

Off the top of my head I can say that most departments have a 10-75, a good portion has 2nd alarms and a small number of departments have 3rd - 5th alarms.

Here's a piece of info to all that I think may be a secret to many. Even if your FD isn't primarily dispatched by 60 Control, you can still set up your greater alarm plans. I know Elmsford, Irvington and us (Croton) have done this, and we still get dispatched by our Police Departments.

Our 2nd Alarm (In addition to the first alarm):

Additional Engine

Additional Truck (except in non-hydrant area where aerials can't get in).

Additional Tanker

Additional FAST

Salvation Army or Red Cross canteen

Believe me when I say this, TAKE THE TIME AND MAKE A GREATER ALARM PLAN AND GIVE IT TO 60 CONTROL! IT MAKES LIFE A HELLUVA LOT EASIER FOR THE IC!!!! Since we developed our plans (a little over 2 years ago) we have had a handful of "10-75" incidents and a couple "2nd Alarms." It sure beats calling on the radio and asking for an engine from here, a ladder from here, a tanker from here, etc. Plus, if you have preset alarm plans, and you share them with the Mutual Aid you're using in it, they generally know they're going to be called and start making their way to their firehouse.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Remember585