How would you handle this?

[JBE 328]

Oftentimes we get reports of emergencies, and the locations are way off from where the incident actually is. I find this a lot on the highways here in the city.

We were getting numerous calls for an overturned car on the Bruckner Expressway, in the vicinity of anywhere up to White Plains Road, down to Hunts Point Avenue. We dispatch the necessary units. About three minutes into it, we get a report of a pin job at Palisade Avenue and West 254 Street. That's a good 8 miles away, if not more. To give you an idea from a unit standpoint, from E-96 to E-52. However, in the text of the incident, the text states it is on the Bruckner near the Bronx River Parkway. The callback comes back to a cell site a few blocks from the expressway. I look at that and let out a "WTF, K!!!?!?!??"

I call EMS and ask them. They tell me it came through the computer relay from NYPD. I pick up the phone and call the supervisor at PD. I am understanding of the call volume they get, but this sort of thing happens quite regularly and I want an explanation. The supervisor tells me that the location that was put out is what the caller must have given the calltaker. I called her on it and said "I highly doubt anyone can confuse Riverdale from the Bruckner and the Bronx River." This is where she gets defensive and says, "You didn't hear the call, you can't assume," and "Did you do a callback??" I advise her I am assuming nothing, and we don't do callbacks on anything related to EMS generated incidents.(Liability issues since we are not EMD trained) I ask her to play the tape back and get back to me. Never got a callback from this Supervisor to explain to me what happened. I had to wait to talk to her relief to get some sort of an explanation, and by then, It was pretty much too late to really take action on it(nearly 4 hours after the fact).

I don't like seeing people get jammed up for making an honest mistake, but God forbid this were to happen on my tour, the person taking the call would be hung out to dry, especially if it resulted in injury or death. And I'd get my rear end handed to me for not catching the mistake. It almost seems like there is no accountability. How would you guys handle a situation such as this?? Discuss.

[JBE 328]

Forgot to add, please keep in mind that as it was explained to me, the computer dispatch systems that EMS and PD have, they cannot put in certain locations by using a landmark name. And oftentimes, they put in a location that is unverified and force into CAD. We can put in most intersections and get a box number, or landmark names and get one as well. Any EMS or PD member on this board probably knows this, especially when it comes to the bridges, tunnels and certain landmarks.

I could give examples till I'm blue in the face, so I'll give you two big ones.

99 Cross Bronx Expressway= the George Washington Bridge (Manhattan Box 8490)

Hutchinson River Parkway and Senger Place=The Bronx side of the Whitestone. (Bronx Box 8995 for the Hutch, Bronx Box 8950 for the Bronx side of the bridge past the toll booths)

[nycemt728 49]

I think you hit the nail on the head, we need to get the companies to adjust the dispatch systems to allow for all (PD FIRE and EMS) to accept both landmarks and comments ie...entrance is on a certain side or where the incident is located w/in a largen venue. I think in the absence of a specific address, give the crew as much details from the origional call and then let them do their job as much as possible. Basically keep typing everything the caller said into the system and hope that its enough info to help.

I think we also need to realize the limitations of the system: by the time the info gets to the crews on the road its already been filtered through so many peope, from bystanders, to CRO's to EMDS to dispatchers.....the results are not pretty as your aware. Not everyone knows the city, streets aren't labled, landmarks never have addresses listed.

I know this could NEVER happen, but having called NYC 911 for a bus several times (as an EMT who works w/in NYC- not for FDNY) I just wish I could talk to the crew on the road for two seconds...Perfect example being I was at Icahn Stadium on Randalls Island and needed a bus, unfortunately I did not know the exact address, only the road...I calmy tried to exlained this to the dispatcher and even said point blank I am directly across the street from the FDNY Academy....still nothing...but when I finally got a bus there I asked the crew if they had troube finding the place , they said no. Had we talked, I probably saved my pt some wait time and me some aggrivation on the phone.

Edited December 23, 2007 by nycemt728

[ryefd192 2]

I think mistakes like these need to be fixed somehow. Obviously it is a problem that can happen anywhere in the country; and I understand it happening once, or twice. However, in the frequency I have witnessed it, and it appears JBE has witnessed it, there is no excuses. As the previous post states, there must be some way to give landmarks an address. I also believe there must be a way to get the most information possible, because as noted it can mess things up. I think this can be seen everywhere in the country, not just big cities. In Alabama I responded to an alarm where we were toned out twice, and I was the only one able to respond, and took the "command car" from our FD, and would advise upon arrival as to mutual aid need and whatnot. The dispatch came through as Lee Road 10 near Good Ol' Boys restaurant (yes we have a restaurant called Good Ol' Boys). So anyway, we got toned to a sizable brush fire in a field at the previously mentioned location. I responded and made a loop that covered L.R. 10 for about a mile past where the fire was reported. I called back into dispatch and told them I found nothing, it was at that point I was advised that A. the fire was encroaching on a structure, and B. the neighboring district was already on scene. I turned around and found the fire to be almost two miles past where it was reported. It was at this point I wondered, first, why the dispatch had not notified me of the proximity to the structure, and also why they did not get a positive ID on the location when the other department arrived. I think this was both the callers fault, in that they confessed that they used the nearest landmark, even though they are two miles down the road, and also the dispatcher for not getting all the information across to me as the only responding unit. Luckily, this fire was able to be knocked down with the assistance of two mutual aid departments, and the eventual response of one engine from my department.

I think that handling this situation takes action on the part of those who realize the magnitude of the mistakes. These people, who witness the mistakes must take steps to insure that they don't happen. Even if that means getting back to a different supervisor four hours later. That one phone call, or the series of phone calls from every time it happens could make the difference in the future between getting to the call and saving a life, or a house, or someones livelihood; and losing anyone of these things.

Edited December 23, 2007 by ryefd192

[20y2 43]

Certain things can be put in with just a landmark (Battalions, hospitals, precincts, etc), but none of the 'real' landmarks can be put in that way.

[ny10570 745]

JBE, you nailed the biggest headache I had day in and day out. The communication between the three agencies sucks. Three times I've called in MVA's where I knew exactly where I was and if I hadn't had the number to dispatch they wouldn't have found me. Bronx River Pkwy northbound 300 ft south of Gunhill Rd, best access from Allerton Av becomes Broonx River southbound at Gunhill. PD's call takers are overwhelmed, EMS isn't fully staffed, and fire is stuck out in isolation. Thats insane that you guys can't do your own call backs and don't have real time access to PD or EMS job text. New multi million dollar operations center, special operations capabilities and redundancy out the arse, yet we can't talk to each other. In the mean time JBE I'm looking forward to passing your units on the spaghetti pile looking for phantom accidents.

[JBE 328]

If you ever get into a situation at Icahn Stadium, Wards Island, Randalls Island, etc. You can give them the address of 600 East 125 Street, or for FD, Manhattan Box 1460. When it comes to real time updates, we get them, but with a slight delay. With the abundance of cell phones, the point being brought up about the Bronx River is at least a once daily occurence.

Here's the one shining point about FDNY Starfire CAD, for all its drawbacks, (Speed, age, lack of suitable interagency interfaces) It's one of, if not in the top three best systems out there. Simply because it has stood the test of time.

[JBE 328]

PS, happened again the other night. PD gave the location as an address on University Avenue. The text stated it was on the Deegan and the caller was a looker from her window. Not as bad as the first one I described, but with a few adjustments to assignments, and locations and box numbers, we were able to get the units out to the right spot.