Department Policy On Chiefs Vehicles

[robert benz 344]

My wife asks me this question all the time, "why are chiefs cars being driven as personal vehicles all over the county" I always answered that "it is the way it is, it is a perk". But i got to thinking, the cost of fuel, and the liability, and if you are out of town, at work 40 miles away you are out of service. Why use a taxpayer funded vehicle?

Does your dept have a written policy on when and where your vehicles can be used?

[tdc202 0]

Yes I know it's a perk for the job Chiefs do to ,but why take it to work 2 Counties away even? I don't get that either and when I have asked some Chief's that question they refuse to answer it.

[ex-commish 490]

Yes I know it's a perk for the job Chiefs do to ,but why take it to work 2 Counties away even? I don't get that either and when I have asked some Chief's that question they refuse to answer it.

I will answer as a former chief. My dept has rules governing the use of the car and it prohibits taking the car to work unless you can leave work to answer calls. I work 5 minutes from where I live and volunteer yet I never took my car to work because I am not able to leave. And if I went out of town where I would not be in a position to respond I would take my own car unless going out of town for departmental business.

I believe there are NY comptroller opinions on use of dept vehicles.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

This is one topic that pisses me off...its a well deserved perk. How many poitical positions have a car they take home on the tax payer. Many you don't even know about. Unless you have ever been in the position of Chief you really don't know how much work is involved. Now dont get me wrong taking a trip to Pa. for the day with your wife to the outlet malls or going upstate to a nascar race with your buddies....then of course not, I would not take it. But travel back and forth to work is not a problem in my eyes. To the average joe your doing that 5 times a week ad that up over the course of the year, thats a lot of travel time. The Fire service likes to talk about "what if's" You read all sorts of posts on this board, articles in magazines, books, all about being prepared and how to handle that one event that may happen once in a few years, or maybe never in your own dept. If I were driving home from work and an alarm came in of a house fire with someone trapped...Im no better then a passing motorist at this point. Don't say it can't happen espiecally if your in a busy dept. Not just the house fire case..how about mva's, car fires, wires down ect...you take over the scene, and establish a command presence in your command vehilce. What looks better, you pulling up in the Chiefs car, or some guy runnning around after he's jumped out of his Hyundai trying to get control of the scene. Being in your own car when you have one to use is the WASTE of taxpayer money. I know of one district near me that gives the Chiefs a cap on the gas they get form the district, anything over a certain amount it comes out of the Chiefs pocket. I have no problem with that, but I do have a problem with rules put on using your car to and from your work.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Ladder47

[SageVigiles 1,194]

In New Fairfield, I believe the rule is that a Chief may take his department vehicle to work provided he works within 20 miles of the district. I believe its 20, but don't hold me to that. I know the Board of Directors came up with some number to make sure privledges won't be abused. I don't know of an instance in which any NF Chief has abused his Chief car perk, so I guess it was sort of a pre-active move...

[50-65 205]

For our district, I believe, that the chief and a**'t chief, can use the district vehicles for personal use as long as they are able to respond. They can use them to commute to work within a 30 mile radius as long as they are able to respond from work.

Out of area travel ok as long as it is for fire district business or approved function.

[abaduck 123]

and a**'t chief...

What was that, and how did it get splatted ***?

Mike

[Guest EFFP411]

i know for my station, the chief car belongs to the station, not the district. we have a 15 mile radius cap for it, and i think the current chief works 14.8 miles from the town line. any farther than that, he takes his own car. and the station chiefs get a certain amount of gas from the district, and after that, the pay out of pocket. The district chiefs have no limit on fuel, but i am not sure if they have a limit on miles or not though

[ex-commish 490]

This is one topic that pisses me off...its a well deserved perk. How many poitical positions have a car they take home on the tax payer. Many you don't even know about. Unless you have ever been in the position of Chief you really don't know how much work is involved. Now dont get me wrong taking a trip to Pa. for the day with your wife to the outlet malls or going upstate to a nascar race with your buddies....then of course not, I would not take it. But travel back and forth to work is not a problem in my eyes. To the average joe your doing that 5 times a week ad that up over the course of the year, thats a lot of travel time. The Fire service likes to talk about "what if's" You read all sorts of posts on this board, articles in magazines, books, all about being prepared and how to handle that one event that may happen once in a few years, or maybe never in your own dept. If I were driving home from work and an alarm came in of a house fire with someone trapped...Im no better then a passing motorist at this point. Don't say it can't happen espiecally if your in a busy dept. Not just the house fire case..how about mva's, car fires, wires down ect...you take over the scene, and establish a command presence in your command vehilce. What looks better, you pulling up in the Chiefs car, or some guy runnning around after he's jumped out of his Hyundai trying to get control of the scene. Being in your own car when you have one to use is the WASTE of taxpayer money. I know of one district near me that gives the Chiefs a cap on the gas they get form the district, anything over a certain amount it comes out of the Chiefs pocket. I have no problem with that, but I do have a problem with rules put on using your car to and from your work.

I disagree, respectfully. First, nothing is " deserved". Those who choose to be chief should do so with the intensions of making a difference and helping to lead thier department, not what perks can be obtained.

Also, there were a few times I was in my POV and came up on an incident in my district ( and I do drive a Hundai) and handled it. I would take my portable with me. All I needed. The members did the rest as always.

[moggie6 54]

This topic pisses me off too! In Dutchess County I see the fire depts handing out cheif cars left and right. I appreciate someone who steps up to the task of being a fire cheif on a volunteer level. But I feel you have to use some common sense with your tax payer funded vehicle. Tax payer funded vehicle.

When I grew up in sullivan county I used to work at the Villa Roma Resort Hotel as a kid. Each summer there were several Long Island Fire Dept Cheif Cars up at the hotel for a week just to be on vacation with thier families. I'm sorry but thats a waste of taxpayer money. I was at a Mets game over the summer and there was a chief car from Long Island at the game with his family in the car. I guess his fire dept said it was ok to respond to calls with his family in the vehicle. Yes it does look professional when you have a command vehicle but unless your employeer lets you leave work you should leave that car at home. Now there are career fire depts that let fire cheifs and other administrative people have vehicles to take home with them. But there are rules to follow, at least where I live.

I see more people using the chief car, command vehicle, tax payer funded vehicle as personal vehicles rather then command vehicles. I also see chief vehicles that are used in personal buisness matters. I.E. chief is a contractor or runs his own buisness and is out making deliveries. Take a look at some of the state correction facilities or different town and city highway depts. You'll see bar lights and lettered vehicles in the parking lot. You mean to tell me they leave their post at the prison or the job on the road to go to a fire call?

The vehicles are necessary. Someone in charge does need to get to the scene in a prudent mannor and make command decsions. But in some areas I think the personal use of the vehicles needs to be revisited.

Well said HFD!

Edited December 22, 2007 by moggie6

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I disagree, respectfully. First, nothing is " deserved". Those who choose to be chief should do so with the intensions of making a difference and helping to lead thier department, not what perks can be obtained.

Also, there were a few times I was in my POV and came up on an incident in my district ( and I do drive a Hundai) and handled it. I would take my portable with me. All I needed. The members did the rest as always.

we will agree to disagree...I guess its what area you are from and on Long Island this is how it's done...I know there is a lot of LI bashing as of late.....I did not create the system, Im just a part of it...I never once said I was looking for perks......If I choose to be Chief it's what I can offer to my Dept. and what new ideas I may be able to implement. Again I guess you do things different, and have different views on things. Trust me when I tell you I dont care about the car, Id rather be sitting behind the wheel in the tillermans seat responding to calls, but if they do give you a car why let it sit in the driveway 5 days out of the week.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

This topic pisses me off too! In Dutchess County I see the fire depts handing out cheif cars left and right. I appreciate someone who steps up to the task of being a fire cheif on a volunteer level. But I feel you have to use some common sense with your tax payer funded vehicle. Tax payer funded vehicle.

When I grew up in sullivan county I used to work at the Villa Roma Resort Hotel as a kid. Each summer there were several Long Island Fire Dept Cheif Cars up at the hotel for a week just to be on vacation with thier families. I'm sorry but thats a waste of taxpayer money. I was at a Mets game over the summer and there was a chief car from Long Island at the game with his family in the car. I guess his fire dept said it was ok to respond to calls with his family in the vehicle. Yes it does look professional when you have a command vehicle but unless your employeer lets you leave work you should leave that car at home. Now there are career fire depts that let fire cheifs and other administrative people have vehicles to take home with them. But there are rules to follow, at least where I live.

I see more people using the chief car, command vehicle, tax payer funded vehicle as personal vehicles rather then command vehicles. I also see chief vehicles that are used in personal buisness matters. I.E. chief is a contractor or runs his own buisness and is out making deliveries. Take a look at some of the state correction facilities or different town and city highway depts. You'll see bar lights and lettered vehicles in the parking lot. You mean to tell me they leave their post at the prison or the job on the road to go to a fire call?

The vehicles are necessary. Someone in charge does need to get to the scene in a prudent mannor and make command decsions. But in some areas I think the personal use of the vehicles needs to be revisited.

Well said HFD!

Again we will agree to disagree...if you really want to get down to $ and cents...the taxpayer is getting a break, as a Volly Chief you are doing a job that would pay that person upwards of $100,000 not counting medical, and your doing it for free. I think use of the Chiefs car is a deal for the taxpayer. And like I said in my original post, using it for certain things I do agree is wrong...but not using it to go back and forth to ones employment.

[hudson144 150]

I guess when i retire and i run for a chiefs spot my boat wouldn't look good on the back? you never know,someone might need some help out on the river! don't forget the bait! lol

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I guess when i retire and i run for a chiefs spot my boat wouldn't look good on the back? you never know,someone might need some help out on the river! don't forget the bait! lol

On the plus side if you have Interspiro SCBA you can do some diving!....or they say.

[robert benz 344]

Again we will agree to disagree...if you really want to get down to $ and cents...the taxpayer is getting a break, as a Volly Chief you are doing a job that would pay that person upwards of $100,000 not counting medical, and your doing it for free. I think use of the Chiefs car is a deal for the taxpayer. And like I said in my original post, using it for certain things I do agree is wrong...but not using it to go back and forth to ones employment.

This isnt about the difference between a chief getting paid or using his chiefs car to go to work. It is about abusing the use of the vehicle, If you cant leave work , or are to far away to respond, then you should leave it in the driveway for 5 days and then when it is time to hand it over to the next guy it will last longer, SAVING THE TAXPAYER THE COST OF A NEW VEHICLE.

What are your depts policy's about EX-Chiefs? do they get to have a red lite in thier pov, a portable radio/ do they get to act as IC if nobody else is on scene yet? Where I live that is what the outgoing chief gets.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

This isnt about the difference between a chief getting paid or using his chiefs car to go to work. It is about abusing the use of the vehicle, If you cant leave work , or are to far away to respond, then you should leave it in the driveway for 5 days and then when it is time to hand it over to the next guy it will last longer, SAVING THE TAXPAYER THE COST OF A NEW VEHICLE.

What are your depts policy's about EX-Chiefs? do they get to have a red lite in thier pov, a portable radio/ do they get to act as IC if nobody else is on scene yet? Where I live that is what the outgoing chief gets.

I agree about the abuse...but I dont think going to and from work is an abuse. If the guy works 100 miles away thats a different story. I onlly brought up the paid thing becasue people are talking about the taxpayer. What costs the taxpayer more a Chiefs car being used for 6 years or a paid Chief getting 100,000 a year for 6 years...and probably a car also!

As far as my Dept.s ex Chief status...no red lite, no portable radio and as far as IC, we do not respond in private autos to scenes. If he happens to live down the block and got there first he would call the dispatcher via landline to give him an update, "member on scene reports smoke showing, working fire, recomends sig.12" (slow down). That info is relayed to the incoming units, the highest ranking Officer on the air, a Chief, ...Lt. riding the first due Engine. Once on scene if there are no current Line Officers, (which hardly ever happens) the most recent ex-Chief or Capt will run the scene. An ex-Chief still has to make his % of alarms for the year, Drills Dept. meetings, co.meetings. The only thing he gets is "life Membership status" otherwise you need to do 20 active years for this, and whats that get you....an invitation to the yearly Dept. diner wow.

Guys dont get me wrong, I know there are silly abuses of the car, but i dont feel using it to go back and forth to work is an abuse.

[Remember585 815]

Hey Hudson, how are you going to pull a boat with your weenie wagon already in tow??

[Oswegowind 17]

IMO there should be an on call schedule for the chief(s) and the one on call for a time period shall be permitted to use a properly marked department vehicle for dept/pers business within or within close proximity (less than 10 miles) to the district. When the other appointed chief(s) are within the fire district and "available" to respond to calls they should be allowed to use the department vehicle. As well, if department business takes personnel out of the district they should use an unmarked vehicle that is property of the district.

So as to say, all departments should have 2 marked command units and one unmarked vehicle such as a van or extended SUV to carry personnel to training, conduct district business out of town (such as look at apparatus being manufactured), etc. Exceptions may come up, and should be handled by the Board of Commissioners based upon statewide policies.

I don't think it is appropriate to take a district/dept vehicle to a bar, also!

I am not saying that a Chief's job isn't difficult, however it is about time agencies begin to find ways to ease the burden on the taxpayers and save some dollars. Lest we forget, most of the time a significant number of members of the department are a portion of the tax base, and everyone is always talking about a tax break for being a member...well you want it, make it happen!

[hudson144 150]

RETIRE--------- NO WORK JUST PLAY!!!

[SteveOFD 176]

What are your depts policy's about EX-Chiefs? do they get to have a red lite in thier pov, a portable radio/ do they get to act as IC if nobody else is on scene yet? Where I live that is what the outgoing chief gets.

In my Dept. the Ex-Chiefs upon completion of their term, become a Deputy Chief. They get red lights for their POV's, portable and mobile radios and they do act as IC when the current Chief's are unavailable. Every other year we get a new Deputy Chief, so there are very few times, if at all, that a Company Officer could be an IC.

[Guest]

Wait a minute, the guy who is Chief is a VOLUNTEER, he knew he was going to do it for free! Where I live it can take literally 20 minutes to drive from one end of town to the other. Shouldnt the Volunteers here get gas money? I have a car that gets 24mpg and its a geo, why shouldnt someone driving a POV to a run get money for gas for each time they go out? It theoretically costs most volunteers almost 3 bucks for each alarm they go on, not counting wear and tear. Dont try that IRS deduction BS, that amounts to cents when you are spending dollars. The Chief is also spending money on stuff for themselves, like they need a new laptop every year? Since when do they do fire reports at home, and its not like they cant do them at the firehouse, its not like any company is running that much that they cant do it quickly. Capt Benz makes an excellent point about the cost of the vehicle, thats the money that we pay the most for. I remember when they didnt even have cars where I live, back when being Chief was about being the most capable, not the most popular! I am surprised that the public does not look into this, I am sure once they do, things will change.

[FDNYDCHI 38]

what about vol. Chiefs car's outside NYC Firehouses? I know it's a department by department rules and regulations.

[EXDC203 38]

A certain former Westchester Chief used to take his department vehicle to Giants Stadium...............Whole new can of worms. Not only was he out of his district, but out of state????

[hudson144 150]

if a deputy chief is OIC in a minor incident it would be a great benefit for a junior officer to be the IC if his plans are to go above to the next step. Experience equals knowledge and there is no better place to learn than to be in charge when it all happens!

[ex-commish 490]

A certain former Westchester Chief used to take his department vehicle to Giants Stadium...............Whole new can of worms. Not only was he out of his district, but out of state????

If the chief went to see the Giants..cut him some slack...if it was the Jets...well....

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

If you are CHief of an FD and are allowed to take the CHIEF's Car to work can you take it on personal errands with your family? I have seen this time and time again. Don't tell me that it is in case the "BIG ONE" happens if you are 20 miles away. Another thing, are you really going to respond to an incident if you have your family in the car? I have also seen this. Now they are stuck there. I guess they could call and have somebody pick them up but that is pretty stupid.

I am all for you being Chief in a Town where you work and can respond. I am not for you wasting mileage and gas in the COUNTY because you feel it is a perk.

Now onto the lights. UNLESS you are A CURRENT OFFICER you shouldn't have a RED LIGHT IN your car. I don't care if you were an EX-CHIEF or not.

[Guest]

NY is in the stone age, they should all have a siren in their car. They would have to come up with a use policy and a class for it, but if it was your house on fire you would want those guys there faster than a bugs a$$ hits his face on your windshield! Having a siren does not mean you have the right to drive like an idiot. The laws of physics should be taught too, ya know, no two pieces of matter (steel, aluminum, automobiles) can occupy the same space!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

NY is in the stone age, they should all have a siren in their car. They would have to come up with a use policy and a class for it, but if it was your house on fire you would want those guys there faster than a bugs a$$ hits his face on your windshield! Having a siren does not mean you have the right to drive like an idiot. The laws of physics should be taught too, ya know, no two pieces of matter (steel, aluminum, automobiles) can occupy the same space!

Are you saying that every member of an FD should have lights and sirens in their cars? Maybe you just meant EX-OFFICERS. Even then what good is it if my house is on fire and they show up without water?

[DR104 141]

I was on vacation down in NJ this summer taking a walk when I noticed a chief car(truck) coming down the road, When it went by I saw it had NY plates. We were about 3.5 hour ride and 186 miles from the TZ bridge. When I went for my walk the next morning I saw the truck parked in a hotel lot. It was there for the weekend. When I went home I looked up the name of the department( I didn't know the name when I saw it) it was more then 200 miles away. Also I checked to see if there was any kind of convention going on that weekend in NJ and found nothing. I am all for the chiefs having a car/truck.But not for personal use. What's going to happen when you get into a mva 200 miles away from your covering area? how are you go to explain yourself.? I don't think you are going to respond from that far away. This is a on going issue and has been talk about many times on this site. Now before everybody gets on my case about this, B/C I am a paid FF and that I am just bashing, I was once a volunteer myself,but I moved.

[Guest]

No I meant every member. What good is a police officer without a gun? We dont need water to save people! But in many cases the members drive to the firehouse then go to the fire with the rig. But if it was your child trapped and you lacked the equipment to get them I would bet your behind you would want them there as fast as possible. Why should they not have them? Most places have maybe 30 active volunteers, so whats the big deal?