What do you think about closest unit response?

[16fire5 693]

Just a reminder Counties can not run fire departments in NYS neither can towns for that matter. But a district could be formed to encompass the areas talked about but I'm sure referendums and probably legislation would be required. It's daunting but probably the way of the future. What always strikes me is the ammount of apparatus some departments have with no ability to staff all of it at any given time. Just look to areas like PA where a company will have 1 engine and tanker and have a box system set up for alarms. This is probably the way to go for the fully volunteer departments.

[Goose 188]

I appreciate the clarification from the two above posts. So, essentially, a massive fire district would need to be established? So, say, sound shore fire district? Assuming all the legalities worked out. If that is the case, then what would be stopping the County from creating a county wide fire or protection district?

[JohnnyOV 2]

Just a reminder Counties can not run fire departments in NYS neither can towns for that matter. But a district could be formed to encompass the areas talked about but I'm sure referendums and probably legislation would be required. It's daunting but probably the way of the future. What always strikes me is the ammount of apparatus some departments have with no ability to staff all of it at any given time. Just look to areas like PA where a company will have 1 engine and tanker and have a box system set up for alarms. This is probably the way to go for the fully volunteer departments.

is it possible to get the law rewritten, of course taking years possibly, to say that a county / multi-county department is allowed? I think if the majority of NYS voters realized what was at stake, they might vote to get the law changed.

[ex-commish 490]

Being some of my past posts have ended up on the desk of elected officals courtesy of a few cowards on here who have sent these posts unsigned I will put my neck out there by saying I have been a big advocate of consolidation for years. Unfotunately my belief stands with a minority. There is way too much duplication of equipment. I believe my town has far more equipment than White Plains yet we dont have the population or call volume they have. Westchester 2000, allthough having good intenions, did not solve anything because the real players did not want change and this stems across both the volunteer and career ranks.

I applaud those who want to step up and try to make this happen. But I am not optimistic you will see any drastic changes because there are too many power hungry people in this business who will not give up thier thrown. I feel an alternate solution would be sharing of services which includes automatic aid, sharing of equipment, insurance, fuel, training, etc. It may not be as effective as merging but a step in the right direction.

[helicopper 1,050]

Instead of me typing out some whole big thing and rambling on, plain and simple, do you think that Westchester should re-evaluate its response / fire tax lines to incorporate a closest unit response. I can think of numerous places where there is a firehouse right near a fire district line, yet the department that will take 8 min to get there, because of the distance, gets dispatched.

I personally feel it does, and yes, even though some departments districts might get smaller, and some larger, our huge egos need to take a step back and look at whats going on. What would the public think if there was a house fire, and the example above happened causing a catastrophic event to occur.

edit: stupid typos

This has been quite an interesting thread! To answer this question, without even changing district/tax lines, we could improve the response to calls by instituting "closest unit" dispatching. The geographically closest three engines, two ladders, and rescue go to the job along with the chief of the district where the call actually is. It would probably improve the overall response, streamline resource management, and improve interagency operations.

Then, based on these responses departments can focus on maintaining the apparatus most critical to their area - as was already said, there's no reason for 50-something rescues in the County. Instead of maintaining a fleet of ten apparatus (apparati? ) with staffing for only four, a department can buy the best equipment for their mission while the department up the road buys what they need for their piece of the puzzle. Many others have said this before much more succinctly than this.

As for consolidating departments, I applaud the effort and hope the study proves one way or the other what will work and for how much. Then maybe someone will honestly make an effort to rally for such a change.

Yes, it would be possible for laws to be rewritten enabling countywide departments - if the support exists and we all know what a big if that is!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Just a reminder Counties can not run fire departments in NYS neither can towns for that matter.

Then how does the town of Mamaroneck (not a district) and the town/village of Scarsdale do it?

NYS Town law allows Municipal depts, fire dists and fire protection dists.

[Bnechis 3,961]

This has been quite an interesting thread! To answer this question, without even changing district/tax lines, we could improve the response to calls by instituting "closest unit" dispatching. The geographically closest three engines, two ladders, and rescue go to the job along with the chief of the district where the call actually is. It would probably improve the overall response, streamline resource management, and improve interagency operations.

Yes, it would be possible for laws to be rewritten enabling countywide departments - if the support exists and we all know what a big if that is!

We looked at closest unit, the problem with that in our case was, I can get units on the scene faster but no personnel. Currently we get 2Eng, 2Lad, DC with 15-17 ff's anywhere in our dist in about 8 min. in one area if we did Auto aid the time to get same # of rigs is closer to 6 min., but only 12 ff's in another case it would be 5 min but only 10 ff's

Look at how hard it is for the county to rewrite the pay levels for county gov.

[ny10570 745]

Just a reminder Counties can not run fire departments in NYS neither can towns for that matter. But a district could be formed to encompass the areas talked about but I'm sure referendums and probably legislation would be required. It's daunting but probably the way of the future. What always strikes me is the ammount of apparatus some departments have with no ability to staff all of it at any given time. Just look to areas like PA where a company will have 1 engine and tanker and have a box system set up for alarms. This is probably the way to go for the fully volunteer departments.

Counties, towns, cities, anyone for that matter can operate a fire department. The issue becomes who is in charge. Home rule prevents the county from forcing a fire dept on any town, village, or city. The county can certainly start up a dept and make it available for any community. A fire protection district can choose to stop receiving service from a dept and either start their own or solicit a different dept for protection. A town can also choose to remove themselves from a fire district and open their own fire dept.

[exmrvfc 0]

Then how does the town of Mamaroneck (not a district) and the town/village of Scarsdale do it?

NYS Town law allows Municipal depts, fire dists and fire protection dists.

NYS Law allows Towns to have fire districts or Fire Protection districts (see article 11). Villages and cities generally have "Departments" that belong to the municipality (though some villages can be part of a fire district see article 11A). I believe the technicality between a District and a Fire Protection District is the Protection District will generally contract for fire protection with an independant fire company or another fire department as opposed to a Fire District that actually owns the apparatus and equipment. I have belonged to an independant fire company that would negoatiate a contract for fire services with the Fire Protection District Board (Town Board).

Town of Harrison has four districts Purchase, West HArrison, Harrison and I believe one that is partially covered by Rye

Unincorporated Town of Greenburgh has three districts -Greeneville, Hartsdale, Fairview)

Town of Mamaroneck has one. - TMFD

Town of Eastchester has one (that encompasses Bronville & Tuckahoe as well)

There are many others throughout westchester that are part of Districts and Fire Protection Districts. Scarsdale is a co-terminous Town/Village that operates under a Village style Government and thus probably has a municipal department.

[ajsbear 11]

I believe we need to make a change. Years ago when living on LI there was a fire in a police station that was within 50 to 100 yards of a fire station. It was not the departments district though. The fire department from a mile away responded. I myself now belong to my closest department but it is not the department that will respond to my home, the closest department is across the county line. School districts are no better but lets leave that for another discussion.

The other issue is consolidation. Yes 50 plus rescues, the number of other apparatus etc. Moving to a regional model may not be the total answer either. Lets look at some of the towns that have multiple departments, split it up to comb, career and volunteer. Will it work? I think most may. That will save millions. Some of this will bring the closest rig, some may still not. You will still have to go over town and county lines in some areas. That is a lot harder to do.

Lets see a list of the towns with multiple departments, how would consolidation work? Who would benefit? How much can we save in reduction of duplicate equip?

Finally in most cases would this reduce response time and the manpower shortages?