What do you think about closest unit response?

[JohnnyOV 2]

Instead of me typing out some whole big thing and rambling on, plain and simple, do you think that Westchester should re-evaluate its response / fire tax lines to incorporate a closest unit response. I can think of numerous places where there is a firehouse right near a fire district line, yet the department that will take 8 min to get there, because of the distance, gets dispatched.

I personally feel it does, and yes, even though some departments districts might get smaller, and some larger, our huge egos need to take a step back and look at whats going on. What would the public think if there was a house fire, and the example above happened causing a catastrophic event to occur.

edit: stupid typos

Edited December 20, 2007 by EMSJunkie712

[Guest]

Automatic aid would be a simple soultion and a lot easier than rearranging taxing districts. Anything involving municipal government approval takes a tremendous amount of time and effort. Having automatic aid vastly simplifies the process.

In my department, to get to incidents on the Merritt Parkway northbound between exits 35 and 36, we have to get on at 36 south, get off at 35, pass the Turn of River FD, and enter the parkway northbound from the 35 entrance ramp. We felt that simultaneously dispatching TORFD was the right thing to do. That is part of our automatic aid agreement. They will get there first and take command. We can supply additional resources if necessary, or cancel. It works very well and is to the benefit of the victims.

Westchester has centralized dispatch, it has departments who have great working relationships between each other. The missing piece is automatic aid on a regional basis.

[OoO 24]

I agree that lines need to be redrawn. My EMS agency often responds to calls on the NYS thruway. In order to access the southbound lane, we have to drive for about 10 minutes to the nearest entrance. Meanwhile, another agency's headquarters is 2 minutes from the same entrance.

[JetPhoto 626]

Yes some lines should be changed however you have a better chance of winning the lottery than to see that anytime soon. It is a very long and tedious task where everyone should be in agreement and then the state will review it for approval, If it involves large areas, residents may reject it. If it was between one or two neighboring districts and only minor changes it's not too bad but if you went and redrew the whole county it would take many many years to complete.

[dfdallen 13]

my firehouse is at the most 75 feet from the town line and it takes the neighboring town approx. 8-10 minutes to get to that area of town. there has been numerous occasions where people have driven up to my firehouse and told us about an incident just over the line and we cant do anything but just call it in to the other departments dispatch, sure our guys go down and check on what was reported to us but without a truck or equipment there isnt much we can do. my friend is a member of that department and has tried to get them to dispatch us on automatic aid but there are alot of older members who dont want anyone besides their members on their calls. hopefully one day this will change due to the fact that it gets harder and harder to get volunteers and it is not worth someones life to just handle things by yourself especially with long response times. we all know how critical every minute is when someones life is in danger, so we all should suck it up and if there is another company or department that is closer add them onto the dispatch even if it is just 1 engine, in the event of a fire with someone trapped or a serious accident it will make a difference even if we dont want to realize it.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

my friend is a member of that department and has tried to get them to dispatch us on automatic aid but there are alot of older members who dont want anyone besides their members on their calls. hopefully one day this will change due to the fact that it gets harder and harder to get volunteers and it is not worth someones life to just handle things by yourself especially with long response times.

**DISCLAIMER**

I hate to have to make a disclaimer, but I don't want anyone to take this personally. These things happen every day, but no single person/department is being singled out. This is a mere generalization

********************************************************************************

*****************************

I agree with you 100% dfdallen. It happens ALL over the place.

I am friends with people from different departments all over my county, and we get along great. Many of us were taking Fire Science courses together, and since we get along good at a younger age, there are hopes relationships will bring something good down the road.

Unfortunately, many of our departments have some problem with other departments because years ago, one guy broke someone else's GI Joe, and they never got over it, and now they don't get called for mutual aid, and no one REALLY knows why they don't get along.

Its high time people sit back, and re-evaluate what they are in this field for. It seems more nowadays a pride thing, than to actually be out there to protect, and aid the public! Maybe reorganization, and making alliances is the way to go for some of the less progressive, and more deeply "traditionally entrenched" areas to try and get along.

This is one reason I love this forum. I get to talk with SO many people, from all over, and who honestly seem to want to learn, and make a difference.

I hope one day, for all the talk of progress, and things actually begin to make a great difference, but I guess as with anything, we have to take baby steps.

Well here is to EMTBravo, the first of many steps in the right direction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/rant]

[antiquefirelt 994]

This is definitely a great topic and hopefully the youngest of us will see it come to fruition. While I'm well away from Westchester now, my county has the same issues. Every dept. seems to think they stand to lose something.

In fact we just got "chewed out" for sending our Squad (jaws of life equipment) toa M/A town for an MVA instead of calling their unit out. But this happened in an area where our ambulances first respond for any life threatening calls or MVA's because our staffed units can beat their staffed units. Upon arrival at this head-on MVA our crew (first onscene) recognized the need for extrication and called for our staffed Squad. The other service's director was not happy their Jaws truck wasn't called out weven though it is housed at the same station as their ambulances, (that they recognize are not as close) and it's not staffed! A good compromise would have been to call out both as will likely be the outcome for future responses. Or they can cancel the automatic EMS responses at the peril of the people in their coverage area, as we base our decisions on "what is best for the victim" and nothing else and we will not compromise on this decision process.

[TRUCK6018 50]

In response to the original post, whether or not Westchester should re-evaluate its response / fire tax lines to incorporate a closest unit response, this would require a tremendous amount of political pandering and red tape. Being the county is made up of fire districts, fire protection districts, and other forms of municipal fire fighting forces, each area would be required by state law to follow different procedures.

The easier approach that will have quicker results is something that has already been stated. Automatic aid. In a fire district case, I think, all that is required is a formal document be drawn up as to who is providing the aid, who is receiving it and the two governing bodies sign off on it. Oh yeah, there was this statement in a previous post:

my friend is a member of that department and has tried to get them to dispatch us on automatic aid but there are alot of older members who dont want anyone besides their members on their calls.

My answer to this is 1) are any of these "older members" a chief? If they are then they have to get with the times. It's no longer a good ole boys club, it's about protecting the public! If one of these members is not a chief, who cares what he or she thinks, since chances are they aren't going to be responding to these calls anyway.

There have been numerous times were I've responded to calls and a neighboring piece of apparatus was there. WHO CARES!!!!

One such place is in the area of Route 100 and Croton Falls Rd in the Somers Fire District. The key here is it's walking distance to one of the Croton Falls fire house that houses their rescue truck. Both departments were toned out because of conflicting reports of locations and the bottom line is Croton Falls sent the rescue and extricated the patient when needed, Somers ambulance transported and the operation worked out well. Most importantly was patient care was not compromised because of egos.

To go one further there was an accident involving a police pursuit where the trooper collided into a utility pole. Croton Falls was at their house cleaning up from an all day brush fire as we were at one of our firehouses cleaning up from the same call. Members of Croton Falls could hear the crash and see the flashes from the blown transformer on the pole and took it upon them selves to head over (they let us know they were doing so) before we got the call. In fact, it was an "older member" of that department, who is also an ex chief (that a tee shirt was made up when he stepped down the first time, Doc22 knows who I'm talking about), was driving the rescue truck. They got there, did what they had to do until we got there and then we worked together for the remember of the incident. Bottom line: patient care was expedited due to a fore thought as opposed being delayed to egos.

[firefighter36 52]

Closest unit response can only benefit the victims of an emergency. It does in a law enforcement environment where a town may have its own police department, but 6-7 fire districts within its boundaries. With the demographics of residents, types of service offered by the fire districts, as well as the availability of personnel, it is only a matter of time before someone is left without the help they need because an invisible fence of a district line is stopping staffed (albeit not properly staffed) equipment that may even be closer to an alarm from responding, while waiting 2 or 3 dispatches for the home department to try and get out.

Westchester and Dutchess are in prime time to have county departments that can work. Staffing can increase, rigs be consolidated, individual identity kept for different locales. There would be a place for all personnel, and tax dollars can be more responsibly spent providing better protection to taxpayers.

Why is this just a pipe dream? Politics. People like their little kingdoms. As call volume, demand, and demographics blur our district lines (especially after 2 or 3 dispatches) politics and personal agendas keep those boundaries as plain as day.

Edited December 20, 2007 by mbendel36

[robert benz 344]

Closest unit response can only benefit the victims of an emergency. It does in a law enforcement environment where a town may have its own police department, but 6-7 fire districts within its boundaries. With the demographics of residents, types of service offered by the fire districts, as well as the availability of personnel, it is only a matter of time before someone is left without the help they need because an invisible fence of a district line is stopping staffed (albeit not properly staffed) equipment that may even be closer to an alarm from responding, while waiting 2 or 3 dispatches for the home department to try and get out.

Westchester and Dutchess are in prime time to have county departments that can work. Staffing can increase, rigs be consolidated, individual identity kept for different locales. There would be a place for all personnel, and tax dollars can be more responsibly spent providing better protection to taxpayers.

Why is this just a pipe dream? Politics. People like their little kingdoms. As call volume, demand, and demographics blur our district lines (especially after 2 or 3 dispatches) politics and personal agendas keep those boundaries as plain as day.

there is a study being conducted right now to consolidate 9 depts in lower westchester. IF it ever were to become a reality, it would increase personal responding in the 4 minute time frame, and the 8 minute time frame NFPA suggests. The way i see things, and this is my opinion only, Most of Westchester County Vol Depts are such a smokescreen, that something has to be done. The patch on your apparatus says FIRE DEPT, yet when a fire occurs, 5 -10 depts are called to put it out. I understand the need for an outside FAST, but for your bread and butter 2 1/2 story frame, to tie up that many resourses, then it is time to look at the reality of the fire service you are supposed to be providing your taxpayers. If it does require 5-10 depts to field a team safely, then CONSOLIDATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION

[Remember585 815]

Just to clarify, Westchester does not have a Centralized Dispatch Center.

Right now, in addition to 60 Control there are 18 other points of dispatch. And that's just FIRE. EMS is a whole different story.

Like it has been said, changing tax lines / districts is nearly impossible around here, but setting up dual responses and automatic aid is easy to accomplish and is in place in many instances.

It just needs to be done in some others.

[fyrlt17 13]

there is a study being conducted right now to consolidate 9 Dept's in lower Westchester. IF it ever were to become a reality, it would increase personal responding in the 4 minute time frame, and the 8 minute time frame NFPA suggests. The way i see things, and this is my opinion only, Most of Westchester County Vol Dept's are such a smokescreen, that something has to be done. The patch on your apparatus says FIRE DEPT, yet when a fire occurs, 5 -10 Dept's are called to put it out. I understand the need for an outside FAST, but for your bread and butter 2 1/2 story frame, to tie up that many resources, then it is time to look at the reality of the fire service you are supposed to be providing your taxpayers. If it does require 5-10 Dept's to field a team safely, then CONSOLIDATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION

I couldn't have stated it better Robert.

I think one problem is all of the Chief's

Which one is going to be in charge, and who is not!!!

Do you think any will want to give up their authority ?

[firefighter36 52]

Capt. Benz, thanks for that information. Such a study was done in Dutchess as well. The results came out, and a few people didn't like it, and needless to say, the report is on a shelf collecting dust. Fyrlt, I think you hit the nail right on the head. Who wants to give up their little kingdom and slice of political power?

[exmrvfc 0]

When departments consolidate, paid or volunteer, Chiefs positions would get eliminated. In the 9 departments Bob is talking about there are several career chiefs that could not all stay as chief of department. There are also career departments with known staffing issues that have been pointed out in these forums. The same applies to the Volunteer side which has the same issues. Consolidaton is key to both the Career and Volunteer sides and it will be driven by taxes and response time/staffing. The area Counties seem to be reaching a tipping point in taxes as evidenced by the school budgets being defeated, bonds being defeated (school & fire districts) and the backlash against the County Legislature over their pay hike proposal.

I would interested to see how the 9 Department proposal plays out in detail since it involves career and combination departments. It could be a model for going forward if all sides (politicians, unions, volunteers) can agree to it.

[fyrlt17 13]

Back in the late 1990's Westchester county prepared a study titled Westchester 2000 the author was Dr. Sal J. Prezioso

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...755C0A964958260

This article is a must read for any one interested in consolidation and the daunting task that lay ahead

[JohnnyOV 2]

In response to the original post, whether or not Westchester should re-evaluate its response / fire tax lines to incorporate a closest unit response, this would require a tremendous amount of political pandering and red tape.

If it benefits public life and property, why not get it done? Sure no one like going to meetings, arguing, filling out paper work, cutting boundry lines, talking to others about things that stir the pot, but like I said before, we are here to protect the public, and I feel that we can do that even better by closest unit response. Automatic mutual aid is nice, but if the m/a company arrives first and has command of the scene, why not just set it up so that way they have district coverage over the area.

To me it seems like taking the shortcut and easy way out with a/m and could cause some legal battles if something goes wrong on scene. Who has proper command, who was responsible ect. ect.

[TRUCK6018 50]

but if the m/a company arrives first and has command of the scene, why not just set it up so that way they have district coverage over the area.

It's a lot easier to do on paper then to enact. Both districts would need to be in favor of the change. Then joint hearings would need to take place then goto the respective town boards for approval. Then of course new assessments would need to be imposed to the land owners.

So right off the bat, you would need four political bodies approval for what could be nothing more than move a line a mile.

[hawkbase 21]

My dept. already has a mutual agreement with a neighboring FD. It works great and has for many years. There is a small section of our district that is about 100 -200 square feet , to get to it we must travel through this other district . What would take us 10 to 12 minutes to get to they handle withing 3-4 minutes.

[turk182 37]

there is a study being conducted right now to consolidate 9 depts in lower westchester. IF it ever were to become a reality, it would increase personal responding in the 4 minute time frame, and the 8 minute time frame NFPA suggests. The way i see things, and this is my opinion only, Most of Westchester County Vol Depts are such a smokescreen, that something has to be done. The patch on your apparatus says FIRE DEPT, yet when a fire occurs, 5 -10 depts are called to put it out. I understand the need for an outside FAST, but for your bread and butter 2 1/2 story frame, to tie up that many resourses, then it is time to look at the reality of the fire service you are supposed to be providing your taxpayers. If it does require 5-10 depts to field a team safely, then CONSOLIDATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION

Which 9 departments ? Who is doing the study? Did the 9 departments being studied choose to be studied? Is there more info on this somewhere ? Thanks

[Remember585 815]

Which 9 departments ? Who is doing the study? Did the 9 departments being studied choose to be studied? Is there more info on this somewhere ? Thanks

It was on News12 earlier this year I believe. The departments invovled that I remember were:

Mount Vernon

New Rochelle

Pelham

Pelham Manor

Eastchester

Scarsdale

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[ajsbear 11]

One reason Bob that at least up here you see 4 or 5 departments for M/A is water supply. You work in an are with Hydrants. Depending on the size of the structure and the distance to fill you may need 4 or 5 tankers. Also with the length of some of these driveway and back roads you have some huge distance to go with hose you then need to set up a water relay. I've been in homes up here with driveways as long as streets and streets that are no wider than driveways.

We have set up here when a report of a structure fire comes in the no mater who's district, all 3 departments get toned for tankers and stand by for additional manpower. Usually another department supplies a source engine to fill the tanker. I also see consolidation of some of the vol. departments though. I have seen it take too long getting trucks out. The territorial thing has got to end to protect the public. We have an area that there are 2 departments who dispute so its a joint response. Solves the problem.

[robert benz 344]

It was on News12 earlier this year I believe. The departments invovled that I remember were:

Mount Vernon

New Rochelle

Pelham

Pelham Manor

Eastchester

Scarsdale

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Hartsdale, Fairview, and Greenville are the other 3 Depts in the study There is a Capt on my Job that is doing the bulk of the study, and talking to him yesterday he ON PAPER has dropped BOUNDRY LINES, moved apparatus, not closed any houses and kept Volunteers where they are now, shown that you can provide much better response 1officer and 3 Firefighters on each apparatus, with 16 (or more)Career Firefighters on scene within the 8 minute standard, 90-95 percent of the time.

The point being is that New Jersey did it Prince Goerges County did it and if Westchester really wanted to do it they could. Increasing Firefighters on the scene in the first 5-10 minutes is the single most important thing we can do for the taxpayers and FOR OUR OWN SAFETY!!!!!. Will anything ever come of it I hope so but I am not holding my breath

AJSBEAR I understand the need for outside help, but when a person pays his fire tax, he expects a service for it, if you told him that although you are paying for protection to 'X" fire dept we cant put out your fire without the help of A,B,C,D,E,F and G fire depts I think they would be a little shocked. And if that is the case, they should all be combined to provide that service without a tremendous duplication of apparatus and in turn a tax saving look at all the articles that Newsweek ran last year about the cost of providing fire protection on LONG ISLAND. The Taxpayers are getting squeezed too hard.

Other comments about the Chiefs not wanting to give up their Kingdoms are very true and very real.

I am now off my soapbox MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL STAY SAFE

[ajsbear 11]

Bob I agree with you on the most part. Why does Westchester need 53 Rescue trucks? Putnam another 10? I do agree with working together. Some departments have enough to get by. Look in some communities who do not have ladder trucks, ground ladders work in 98% of the incidents when needed. On the west side of Putnam there are none. They rely on Mohegan and Peekskill on the south, Rombouts and East Fishkill from the north. Do you think thats wrong? Peekskill gets ajob, has no water pressure and calls for some tankers because they don't have one. Crotan needed additional tankers last week. in the Bedford, Mt Kisco Somers area they always assist with tankers and additional manpower. For the most part the system in place works and its all we have. Combining some departments is needed. The Kingdom thing will put up road blacks, walls and who knows what else. Look at the Stamofrd problems. A lot of that is giving up the key to the kingdom and losing some control. Give in for the good of the taxpaying community already. I'm not pro volunteer of career. I'm for doing the best for my community and save some money in doing so. I've seen my taxes go up over the last 8 years by almost 33%. School, county, town etc.

YOU CAN HAVE THE SOAPBOX BACK. Merry Christmas to all.

[Remember585 815]

I agree with Captain Benz and Al, there is way too much duplication of crap in Westchester. Some departments have more apparatus then they have people that can actually get them out. Other departments don't have equipment they need but plenty of people that could use it. Each Department should sit down, review it's current operations, do a little forcasting into the future and come up with a realisitic plan of how to guarantee the best service to their community.

Although we've never had formal discussions on the topic, we've without a doubt sat down many times and talked about ways we can improve ourselves. We now go out the door with three engines with a total of 2750 gallons of water, a tanker with 3300 gallons and a quint with 300 gallons of water. 30 years ago we responded with just 1500 gallons! We use LDH instead of 3" as a supply line, we have bigger pumps and we are better trained then ever, and I think it is evident in how well we do our jobs. We're always discouraged when we have fires in the outlying areas that take us 10-15 minutes to get to and all we can do is work defensively. We have automatic First alarm assignments bringing an additional 3 tankers, a cascade and a FAST for all fires in our non-hydrant areas. For hydrant areas, a FAST and a cascade unit - that's it. Other then those two things we can't provide for ourselves we are a self-sufficent department that can hold it's own (a majority of the time) and still puts out 10-12 people during the day for MINOR CALLS. If our manpower started to nose dive or if our response times got too long, we would appraoch it like we always do with the mentality that we are their for the community and not our own egos. And I think that's how 90-95% of our county looks at it, and those that don't do anything to improve their response times and numbers should wake up and do something before it costs someone their life.

Putting the soap box back now, thanks.

[turk182 37]

Who commissioned the current study ? Is it another Westchester 2000? Will this thing have legs; is it the start of something real? Sorry to keep asking questions it is a great idea. Lower Westchester needs something. I wish more departments would or could be involved but you have to start somewhere. I wonder if Larchmont will get in on it now that they have a career chief. Interesting how no combination depts. with volunteer chiefs seem to be involved. Goes to what most everybody seems to be saying nobody wants to give up their little kingdoms, it is a shame they cannot put that aside and see what would be good for all.

[Bnechis 3,961]

there is a study being conducted right now to consolidate 9 depts in lower westchester. IF it ever were to become a reality, it would increase personal responding in the 4 minute time frame, and the 8 minute time frame NFPA suggests. The way i see things, and this is my opinion only, Most of Westchester County Vol Depts are such a smokescreen, that something has to be done. The patch on your apparatus says FIRE DEPT, yet when a fire occurs, 5 -10 depts are called to put it out. I understand the need for an outside FAST, but for your bread and butter 2 1/2 story frame, to tie up that many resourses, then it is time to look at the reality of the fire service you are supposed to be providing your taxpayers. If it does require 5-10 depts to field a team safely, then CONSOLIDATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION

Thanks for the Humble Opinion.

[Bnechis 3,961]

One reason Bob that at least up here you see 4 or 5 departments for M/A is water supply. You work in an are with Hydrants. Depending on the size of the structure and the distance to fill you may need 4 or 5 tankers. Also with the length of some of these driveway and back roads you have some huge distance to go with hose you then need to set up a water relay. I've been in homes up here with driveways as long as streets and streets that are no wider than driveways.

We have set up here when a report of a structure fire comes in the no mater who's district, all 3 departments get toned for tankers and stand by for additional manpower. Usually another department supplies a source engine to fill the tanker. I also see consolidation of some of the vol. departments though. I have seen it take too long getting trucks out. The territorial thing has got to end to protect the public. We have an area that there are 2 departments who dispute so its a joint response. Solves the problem.

I strongly agree that auto aid and mutual aid have a major roll in the fire service and in non-hydrant areas it is even more important.

That being said, a few weeks ago, I read an news article in the local rag and what caught my eye was a recent evening (8pm) bedroom fire (with extension to a second bedroom) that required the response of 8 fire departments to have sufficient personnel. The host department has 2 front line engines, 1 ladder and assorted other resources. and has 3 career ff's onduty.

All of these depts have a combined fleet of 25 engines, 5 ladders, 5 tower ladders, 6 rescues, and 24 chiefs cars (#'s are as close as I can figure). the value of this rolling stock is almost $22 million.

If any dept, needs that much MA (7 MA plus the host) to handle, what is everyone sending? If we look at NFPA 1710, they want 18 personnel (15 in 1st alarm, 1 ladder operator, and 2 addition for FAST).

Since the host had at least 3ff's plus chief the remaining 7 departemnts send what 2 each?

I was not there, and I hope this does not come across as picking on the host or any of the MA depts, but it appears to me that something is very wrong.

When the tax revolt hits...how do we justify what we spend? And what our capabilities really are.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Who commissioned the current study ? Is it another Westchester 2000? Will this thing have legs; is it the start of something real? Sorry to keep asking questions it is a great idea. Lower Westchester needs something. I wish more departments would or could be involved but you have to start somewhere. I wonder if Larchmont will get in on it now that they have a career chief. Interesting how no combination depts. with volunteer chiefs seem to be involved. Goes to what most everybody seems to be saying nobody wants to give up their little kingdoms, it is a shame they cannot put that aside and see what would be good for all.

The study was commissioned by the Westchester Career Chiefs Association. It is funded by the NYS Senate and being conducted by the Michaelian Institute for Public Policy and Management at Pace University.

It is not another Westchester 2000. Which was looking to consolidate all levels of government, schools , districts county wide. This is being driven by the career chiefs and only dealing with depts that were interested in participating.

Larchmont is not in the current study, but they and others were told that after the study comes out if other depts want in that it would be possible.

[Goose 188]

Interesting topic and nice to see at least the inklings of consolidation floating around. I'm seriously tired of seeing tax dollars be thrown into new chiefs trucks every other year and overzealous apparatus acquisitions. Hopefully an honest and realistic plan comes out of this which maintains proper round the clock staffing, effective resource allocation and positioning.

Fact is, this could never happen overnight it would be massive effort that would take time and money to establish. As far as the politics, i think that the study is going to have to show some very serious savings or something equivalent before it would even be considered at the County Government level. I don't know too much about the politics of Andy Spano, but he seems like a reasonable guy. Likewise, any plan would have to explicitly include volunteers. The biggest thing is, right now, many people feel " well, the fires get put out and the FD comes when i call about an odor of gas." Most people don't know an adequate response from an inadequate response, at least thats what I've seen on the EMS side of things. So a massive re-education effort would have to be undertaken in order to point out where the current system fails.

Like i said, glad to see this first step, would love to see my tax dollars go to it, but there is still a lot of work to be done.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Fact is, this could never happen overnight it would be massive effort that would take time and money to establish. As far as the politics, i think that the study is going to have to show some very serious savings or something equivalent before it would even be considered at the County Government level. I don't know too much about the politics of Andy Spano, but he seems like a reasonable guy. Likewise, any plan would have to explicitly include volunteers. The biggest thing is, right now, many people feel " well, the fires get put out and the FD comes when i call about an odor of gas." Most people don't know an adequate response from an inadequate response, at least thats what I've seen on the EMS side of things. So a massive re-education effort would have to be undertaken in order to point out where the current system fails.

Like i said, glad to see this first step, would love to see my tax dollars go to it, but there is still a lot of work to be done.

Never say never........but it will take a massive effort.

County Government and Spano have nothing to do with it. This is a local issue that will be decided by the communities in the study. If you look on a smaller scale (5 depts) the union looked at this 8-10 years ago and found that to meet NFPA 1710 the 5 seperate FD's needed to hire 332 additional firefighters, but if they merged they needed only 71. Thats 261 fewer firefighters and officers to get the job done. if you figure that 8 years ago the annual cost for 261 ff's would have been about $ 19.5 million, then figure 5 years and we would have spent $100 million. No ones going to give us that kind of $$$. So lets consider there would have been no cost savings, but being short 71 is a whole lot better than being short 261.

BTW 71 short = would have ment being 13 ff's per shift short out of a total of 78 on duty.

The larger the area / population generally the lower the cost, but almost always a lower per capita cost.

Many other cost factors involved, including insurance.

I dont think you can educate the people as to what is adequate until they are in trouble. But if you can show them they can get better service for the same or lower tax $$ then you have a shot.

The sad truth is that most people drive past the fire house in town (any town) and see lots of truck and think "I'm protected" even if the dept does not have a single firefighter. Trucks don't put out fires.

The Vol. have been considered in this study.