Pay for EMT's and Paramedics.

[moggie6 54]

I'm just curious what some of you think about what the pay scales should be for EMT's and Paramedics that are working in the private\commercial sector of EMS. I started out my EMS career making $8.50\hr. That was in 2000. The last company that I worked for was paying around $10.40\hr for my services as an EMT on a per diem basis after four years of service.

So, my question to you is what do you think you should be making an hour or in a year?

Do you think your pay is fair in relation to the income your company recieves I.E. Billing, Insurance, ect...?

What do you make an hour and what county\area are you working in?

This question is optional, some of you may prefer to keep that to yourselves and I respect that. Also, please keep in mind that some companies may not want you to disclose your hourly rate. You have to do what you have to do to protect yourself as an employee. Thanks you for taking the time to respond.

[Guest]

Guy I work with gets 20 an hour in the BX. I would do that, but not for 8 an hour. You can make 15 at home depot and not deal with blood and other pathogens all day!

[NYMedic37 22]

Professional 911 EMT's should get $25.00/hour and 911 paramedics $50.00/hour. If you are in cardiac arrest and your life is saved its worth every penny. Think of all of the other scenerios where EMT's and Paramedics have prevented cardiac arrest. The A.P.E. that gets Nitrates, lasix and Morphine and now can breath, The AMI that gets a 12 lead, treated and taken to a PCI, the severe trauma that is spared by EMS. We are worth every penny and more.

[50-65 205]

The one, and only, commercial company I worked for started me at $10/hr. Within 2 months that increased to $12.50. Since I have a CDL, I was also used for their Ambulette service as well.

I worked as a PCT at a hospital and started at $12.09. Shift and weekend diffs could add up to another $3.25.

I live in Orange Co. Locally, using Gov't guidelines for "affordable" housing, you need $21/hr to afford a 2 bedroom apt.

While I enjoyed the work, I didn't enjoy the 80 - 100 hr work weeks necessary to make a living.

I make as much working 40 hrs sitting in a dump truck watching dirt, reading my newspaper, and drinking my coffee, with weekends and holidays off.

[LTNRFD 266]

In 1974 E.M.T.s at Abbey Richmond got paid $2.82/Hr with O.T. after 40 Hrs. Minimum wage was $2.75/Hr. In 1975 we were looking for a sizable increase and the union was pushing for over $3.00/Hr. The E.M.T.s were hoping for $3.50/HR. Abbey offered $3.01/Hr and the union reps thought it was a victory we should be proud of. I guess getting almost a 7% raise would be considered a victory to be proud of. Who today wouldn't love to get a 7% contracted raise.

YES WE WORKED FOR PENNIES.

[Oswegowind 17]

I believe that Paramedic pay should resemble that of the nurse's in the local emergency rooms and should include a bonus for hazard pay, something like an addition 5-10% differential for working in the field, having to carry equip, patients, and not being in a controlled environment. In essence, a Medic is a Field Nurse, that can provide care based on protocol and standing orders, but has to consult with an MD for further just as is done in the ER. However, how many medics get paid 90,000 after 10 years???? NONE! unless you are really really special! Or work so much OT you forget how to get home!

As for EMT's they are comparable to aide's with a little better training and more extensive medical knowledge. So I say start em at 15-20 an hour and work up from there, including that hazard differential.

Vote for Me for Mayor of your town!

[nycemt728 49]

EMS pay is way under what it should be. Where I work, both deckhands and maitenance make about the same if not more than I do as a tech. I respect other people's line of work, but there has to be priority! There is no way those two jobs can be considered equal to EMS on a scale of importance...I mean noone ever died b/c the garbage wasn't emptied. Probie BLS should not be under ten an hour these days. I would like to see the privates raise their top level of pay closer to 20. 911 should be on a higher scale, but not to much to discourage EMTs to start out in the privates and engender resentment and laziness leading to bad patient care.

[22 Truck 6]

I would say I'm on the same level at the career level with those figures.

I wonder, how many EMS agencies are out there that are paid-per-call?

My agency was all volley from 1957-2005...with a severe drop-off in volunteerism, in 2004 the decision was made to mimic an agency nearby with the same problem and went paid-per-call at the same rate they offered. In April 2005 we began the endeavor which has held true to present; every call dispatched is as follows:

Driver of amb. on a transport: receives $35 per call

EMT of amb. on a transport: receives $45 per call

CC/Paramedic on any amb. including ALS intercept on agency fly car: receives $80 per call

Driver, EMT, or CC/EMT-P on any: fire call stand-by, cancellation or sign-off: $10 a piece

(i.e. had a car accident today with 4 sign-offs, received $40 total '$10 for each').

Though my EMT (Career) pay doesn't seem much, taking what was once a "volley" call helps out with play money now.

Needless to say, there is no problem getting an amb. or fly car out now.

[Goose 188]

I would say I'm on the same level at the career level with those figures.

I wonder, how many EMS agencies are out there that are paid-per-call?

My agency was all volley from 1957-2005...with a severe drop-off in volunteerism, in 2004 the decision was made to mimic an agency nearby with the same problem and went paid-per-call at the same rate they offered. In April 2005 we began the endeavor which has held true to present; every call dispatched is as follows:

Driver of amb. on a transport: receives $35 per call

EMT of amb. on a transport: receives $45 per call

CC/Paramedic on any amb. including ALS intercept on agency fly car: receives $80 per call

Driver, EMT, or CC/EMT-P on any: fire call stand-by, cancellation or sign-off: $10 a piece

(i.e. had a car accident today with 4 sign-offs, received $40 total '$10 for each').

Though my EMT (Career) pay doesn't seem much, taking what was once a "volley" call helps out with play money now.

Needless to say, there is no problem getting an amb. or fly car out now.

How many runs do you do a day? It has got to be a pretty low number...

If i was payed by the call, i would average about 225 dollars in 12 hours. I get paid just above that for the two 12 hour tours i work a pay period. I would say that every tour i average about 5 calls, with the fewest being 3 and the most being about 12.

There is no way any high volume agency could afford paying its employees by call. It just doesn't make sense in a career capacity...how would you account for accrued PTO/Vacation, doesn't seem like you could have shift differentials, and with all that was being paid out i couldn't see a company looking to offer an honest health and retirement package.

I think the hourly wage makes far more sense....but it would be nice if it were a bit more in line with the responsibility and cost of living.

[firemoose827 324]

How many runs do you do a day? It has got to be a pretty low number...

If i was payed by the call, i would average about 225 dollars in 12 hours. I get paid just above that for the two 12 hour tours i work a pay period. I would say that every tour i average about 5 calls, with the fewest being 3 and the most being about 12.

There is no way any high volume agency could afford paying its employees by call. It just doesn't make sense in a career capacity...how would you account for accrued PTO/Vacation, doesn't seem like you could have shift differentials, and with all that was being paid out i couldn't see a company looking to offer an honest health and retirement package.

I think the hourly wage makes far more sense....but it would be nice if it were a bit more in line with the responsibility and cost of living.

I believe 22 Truck was talking about volunteer staffing, and getting vollies to answer calls now-a-days. I could be wrong though.

Where I work PT I get a measly 7.73/hr. I believe EMT's should be getting 25/hr. Its real simple, some high school drop out standing in the middle of the road with an orange flag waving his/her hand back and forth ALL DAY gets 25-30/hr. You could train a monkey to do that job for "peanuts". We go through extensive training, CME's, and recert every 3 years, work with peoples lives, run around the clock without sleep or food, in all weather regardless ( that high school drop out gets to go home when it rains and gets laid off when it snows with pay). What do we get...close to minimum wage. PATHETIC.

My bosses excuse to this? "Well, you get to work all the OT you want and when there is no call you are paid to watch TV" Lately my regular 24 hr shift on thursday nights has been non-stop, averaging 6-8 calls per 12 hour block. Last friday we did two calls in a town 20 minutes away from our station- a full code and a 17 y.o w/seizures. 20 minute response time in snow and slush. But we are only paid 7.73/hr. NYS needs to get its priorities straight, and figure out who should be paid more; Laborers on state contract or Fire/EMS/Police?

Sorry for rambling, this bugs me, and I HATE the company I work for with a passion.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Professional 911 EMT's should get $25.00/hour and 911 paramedics $50.00/hour. If you are in cardiac arrest and your life is saved its worth every penny. Think of all of the other scenerios where EMT's and Paramedics have prevented cardiac arrest. The A.P.E. that gets Nitrates, lasix and Morphine and now can breath, The AMI that gets a 12 lead, treated and taken to a PCI, the severe trauma that is spared by EMS. We are worth every penny and more.

Calm down there. There is no way that Medics or EMT's deserve more than COPS or Fireman make an hour. I am sorry. Now of course that matters for where you work and how much work you do but not as much as COPS/FIREMAN. I do believe that the PAY SUCKS for EMS PROFESSIONALS. Having done that for a LONG TIME, I know what it is like. But $50 and hour come on. Most COPS/FIREMAN don't make that an hour. Unless of course you are a YPD/YFD, Clarkstown PD, NASSAU/SUFFOLK COUNTY PD. There might be a couple more in there.

What if your life is not saved in CARDIAC ARREST, A.P.E, Trauma? Does the family get you paycheck for what you didn't do? I do belive that ALL EMS should get raises. I would never work for $10 and hour as an EMT or less then $25 as a MEDIC.

[orangEMT246 6]

I have 9 years EMT experience under my belt. I have been with my current "private ambulance" company for the past 3 years and make--FT $11.60hr. No union. With my NJ "state hospital" EMS job--PD $17.94hr dayshift PLUS a $1.75hr night diff. with a state retirement plan after 25 years in. Union shop. But we run all day and night long. 14-20 runs in a 12 hour shift.

Edited December 19, 2007 by orangEMT246

[Goose 188]

Calm down there. There is no way that Medics or EMT's deserve more than COPS or Fireman make an hour. I am sorry. Now of course that matters for where you work and how much work you do but not as much as COPS/FIREMAN. I do believe that the PAY SUCKS for EMS PROFESSIONALS. Having done that for a LONG TIME, I know what it is like. But $50 and hour come on. Most COPS/FIREMAN don't make that an hour. Unless of course you are a YPD/YFD, Clarkstown PD, NASSAU/SUFFOLK COUNTY PD. There might be a couple more in there.

What if your life is not saved in CARDIAC ARREST, A.P.E, Trauma? Does the family get you paycheck for what you didn't do? I do belive that ALL EMS should get raises. I would never work for $10 and hour as an EMT or less then $25 as a MEDIC.

I understand your argument Oneeye, however i would offer that the vast majority of FD runs these days are EMS related. While I'm sure there will never be a decline in the number of AFAs, COs, gas odors and stuck elevators or lockouts the number of fires is down nationwide. While i don't know if EMS calls have risen nationwide, i can only assume they have at least maintained themselves at a number greater than FD runs minus EMS runs. I don't know much about PD so i can't speak to it.

But, that is not to say EMS should get paid over any one service and i don't think that is what was being advocated. I think more generally EMS, FD and PD need to earn a livable wage, in other words raise them all (minus those that already are fortunate enough to make a decent salary). But, out of the three EMS is probably the worst off. Measly pay, lackluster benefits, little recognition and representation on all levels - all for a job that maintains a pretty high demand.

Again, i don't think anyone is saying that EMS should be paid more than any one service, but at least on par with what FD and PD get paid and generally everyones salary should be realistic.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Goose

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I understand your argument Oneeye, however i would offer that the vast majority of FD runs these days are EMS related. While I'm sure there will never be a decline in the number of AFAs, COs, gas odors and stuck elevators or lockouts the number of fires is down nationwide. While i don't know if EMS calls have risen nationwide, i can only assume they have at least maintained themselves at a number greater than FD runs minus EMS runs. I don't know much about PD so i can't speak to it.

But, that is not to say EMS should get paid over any one service and i don't think that is what was being advocated. I think more generally EMS, FD and PD need to earn a livable wage, in other words raise them all (minus those that already are fortunate enough to make a decent salary). But, out of the three EMS is probably the worst off. Measly pay, lackluster benefits, little recognition and representation on all levels - all for a job that maintains a pretty high demand.

Again, i don't think anyone is saying that EMS should be paid more than any one service, but at least on par with what FD and PD get paid and generally everyones salary should be realistic.

I hear what you are saying. I think that we ALL DESERVE what they PAY A-ROD. I can go out and stand at the plate 3 times a game and strike out. That would be easy to do for $275mil. This Country is so backwards it is not even funny.

[MerlinMedic 5]

Calm down there. There is no way that Medics or EMT's deserve more than COPS or Fireman make an hour. I am sorry. Now of course that matters for where you work and how much work you do but not as much as COPS/FIREMAN.

I disagree & am not sorry to do so. EMS deserves as much as PD & FD. We often do 3-4 times the call volume as straight FD. As far as PD, their job is full of bone heads with guns, which EMS rarely, if ever faces. But we get funky illnesses. Of course, most EMS is private & we don't get municple benifits if some knuckle head thinks we are the PD and shoots us. Look at the 'great' trreatment the private EMS people got from the City/State after 9/11.

Each service has it's hazzards, fire, knuckle heads & yetch!. Each have the same basic goals -- serve the public, save lives. We each have our specialty & do it well. EMS just does not have the $$ or recognition. C'mon, $7.00 an hour for Rural Metro? Please, that company makes $$ hand over fist. As a for profit agency, I believe they can even refuse non-emergency transports for those w/o insurance.

[Goose 188]

I hear what you are saying. I think that we ALL DESERVE what they PAY A-ROD. I can go out and stand at the plate 3 times a game and strike out. That would be easy to do for $275mil. This Country is so backwards it is not even funny.

Or we could all go out and become meteorologists. It's the only job where you can go on TV, get paid at least six figures and be consistently wrong without fear of getting fired

[firemoose827 324]

I disagree & am not sorry to do so. EMS deserves as much as PD & FD. We often do 3-4 times the call volume as straight FD. As far as PD, their job is full of bone heads with guns, which EMS rarely, if ever faces. But we get funky illnesses. Of course, most EMS is private & we don't get municple benifits if some knuckle head thinks we are the PD and shoots us. Look at the 'great' trreatment the private EMS people got from the City/State after 9/11.

Each service has it's hazzards, fire, knuckle heads & yetch!. Each have the same basic goals -- serve the public, save lives. We each have our specialty & do it well. EMS just does not have the $$ or recognition. C'mon, $7.00 an hour for Rural Metro? Please, that company makes $$ hand over fist. As a for profit agency, I believe they can even refuse non-emergency transports for those w/o insurance.

Merlin...Are you speculating and assuming things again? Are you doubting that the &*@%#$$% I work for only pay me 7.50/hr to start? Its fact brother, adn one of the minor reasons I HATE working for them. If I listed all the reasons I would be able to publish this post as a book and make money that way! Not a bad idea??????? Just Kidding

[JCESU 20]

UNION UNION UNION

The major problem I see within EMS is a lack of solidarity and Unionization. Until EMS bands together and becomes a strong Union the idea of salaries, benefits and other perks will remain. Without collective bargaining and a lobbyist your just spinng your wheels. Fraternal organizations and the like are great but that is not going to improve your working conditions. Fighting for fair contracts for decades is the only reason the PD and fd have the benefits they receive and it is a constant battle to maintain our working conditions let alone improve them let alone improve them.

[gss131 212]

"As far as PD, their job is full of bone heads with guns" your right ,and dont forget they have to deal with criminals too. lol

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I disagree & am not sorry to do so. EMS deserves as much as PD & FD. We often do 3-4 times the call volume as straight FD. As far as PD, their job is full of bone heads with guns, which EMS rarely, if ever faces. But we get funky illnesses. Of course, most EMS is private & we don't get municple benifits if some knuckle head thinks we are the PD and shoots us. Look at the 'great' trreatment the private EMS people got from the City/State after 9/11.

Each service has it's hazzards, fire, knuckle heads & yetch!. Each have the same basic goals -- serve the public, save lives. We each have our specialty & do it well. EMS just does not have the $$ or recognition. C'mon, $7.00 an hour for Rural Metro? Please, that company makes $$ hand over fist. As a for profit agency, I believe they can even refuse non-emergency transports for those w/o insurance.

Bone heads with guns. Nice. So the next time you are getting your a** kicked by some drugged up EDP, don't call the PD to back you up. Just because you chose the wrong profession does not mean that you should be putting one down that has been around for Hundreds of years. You know what? I am going to my Over $40hr job now. Have funny doing lift assists all day in the cold.

[gss131 212]

Bone heads with guns. Nice. So the next time you are getting your a** kicked by some drugged up EDP, don't call the PD to back you up. Just because you chose the wrong profession does not mean that you should be putting one down that has been around for Hundreds of years. You know what? I am going to my Over $40hr job now. Have funny doing lift assists all day in the cold.

relax i think he just phrased it incorrectly. i hope

[firemoose827 324]

relax i think he just phrased it incorrectly. i hope

Yes...I know him personally, he was reffering to the perps. EMS being chased by bad guys with guns, thats what he meant to say. He woudnt make fun of PD like that.

[MerlinMedic 5]

Bone heads with guns. Nice. So the next time you are getting your a** kicked by some drugged up EDP, don't call the PD to back you up. Just because you chose the wrong profession does not mean that you should be putting one down that has been around for Hundreds of years. You know what? I am going to my Over $40hr job now. Have funny doing lift assists all day in the cold.

You miss understood. I was not refering to the PD as those with guns, but probobly one of the most dangerous situations (as I understand it) that PD face, a trafic stop and the person has a gun. It was THOSE bone heads I was refering to.

As to the drugged up EDP, please don't go there. Until recently they were EMS calls, no PD. I want & appreceate the PD presence. When we all work together, we do good things.

And Jonesy ... Rural Metro can & should pay you more than your $7.00/hr. They sure made enough $$ on those 10 min 'shucks from Eden Park across the parking lot.

[OoO 24]

I too agree that EMTs are grossly underpaid. My nephew works as a lifeguard making over $12/hour. The training for a lifeguard is far less than that of an EMT and the job also is considerably easier.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

You miss understood. I was not refering to the PD as those with guns, but probobly one of the most dangerous situations (as I understand it) that PD face, a trafic stop and the person has a gun. It was THOSE bone heads I was refering to.

As to the drugged up EDP, please don't go there. Until recently they were EMS calls, no PD. I want & appreceate the PD presence. When we all work together, we do good things.

And Jonesy ... Rural Metro can & should pay you more than your $7.00/hr. They sure made enough $$ on those 10 min 'shucks from Eden Park across the parking lot.

I didn't misunderstand. I just read what you wrote. In my opinion all EDP's require COPS to be there. Now if you don't like being an UNDERPAID EMT go to MEDIC SCHOOL, Graduate, and go work for a PRIVATE HOSPITAL IN NYC. Nobody is telling you to work for so CHEAP. I speak from experience so I understand where you are coming from.

UNIONIZE is the only way to go. Even if it is with the CSEA which is HORRIBLE in most places. Private companies obviously don't want that.

[MerlinMedic 5]

I didn't misunderstand. I just read what you wrote.

The full quote is: As far as PD, their job is full of bone heads with guns, which EMS rarely, if ever faces.

I thought I was being pretty staright forward in saying that PD face armed hazzards that EMS generally does not. EMS faces other hazzards that PD does not face; as FD faces dangers that neither PD nor EMS are equiped or trained to face.

In essence, each branch has their share of danger, some are more visable (fire), some can be fatal faster (bullets) nd some we don't know all about (yetch -MRSA). Given that, all should be paid pretty close to the same. We know it doesn't ahppen that way, and wont for a long time.

As to EDPs, that would be an intersting other topic.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

The full quote is: As far as PD, their job is full of bone heads with guns, which EMS rarely, if ever faces.

I thought I was being pretty staright forward in saying that PD face armed hazzards that EMS generally does not. EMS faces other hazzards that PD does not face; as FD faces dangers that neither PD nor EMS are equiped or trained to face.

In essence, each branch has their share of danger, some are more visable (fire), some can be fatal faster (bullets) nd some we don't know all about (yetch -MRSA). Given that, all should be paid pretty close to the same. We know it doesn't ahppen that way, and wont for a long time.

As to EDPs, that would be an intersting other topic.

You weren't being straight foward at all or I wouldn't have written about it. You quote "As far as PD, Their job is full of bone heads with guns. It is right there in black and white. You may have meant to write it a different way but you didn't. Maybe you should just proofread before you hit ADD REPLY. I still don't think that we should be paid the same. I think that I should get more. HA HA.

[khas143 13]

You weren't being straight foward at all or I wouldn't have written about it. You quote "As far as PD, Their job is full of bone heads with guns. It is right there in black and white. You may have meant to write it a different way but you didn't. Maybe you should just proofread before you hit ADD REPLY. I still don't think that we should be paid the same. I think that I should get more. HA HA.

Of course EMS is underpaid but PD and FD have been around for over 100 years as public service employees. It took us that long to begin to be paid a "living" wage. Even 20 years ago PD and FD were in the lower middle class section of the income scale.

Personally, I don't think that EMS should get paid the same as PD/FD. There are many jursidictions that require being an EMT in order to be a firefighter or some that even require PD Officers to be EMT's. Should you be paid more, absolutely but in my opinion, if you really want to make more money and still work as a medic, become a cop in an police based EMS system or a firefighter on an ALS response rig. If you don't want to do that, don't hold your breath for those pay raises. (Given as long as it took PD and FD, ohh that should be about another 75-80 years).

My idea, $15-20/hr for EMT's and $30-35/hr for Paramedics.

Edited December 20, 2007 by khas143

[Danger 160]

When I worked at a commercial: somewhere between McDonald's burger flipper and Stop and Shop cashier. Then when I didn't cross an "I" or dot a "T" my EMS "family company" HR Department said sorry, you screwed up, filled out the 1243 form instead of the 1234, no benefits for you!!! Not gonna say any names but coughOMALAcough. Unbelievable. The only way I'd do commercial is if my other choice to live on the street. Well, I'd still live on the street, can't pay a mortgage on $9!

[MerlinMedic 5]

You weren't being straight foward at all or I wouldn't have written about it. You quote "As far as PD, Their job is full of bone heads with guns. It is right there in black and white.

Now you are being obstinate. When you leave off half the sentance, you are quoting out of context. Please stop.