EMS Mistakenly Declares Woman Dead at Crash Scene

[Guest]

Report: EMS Mistakenly Declares Woman Dead at Crash Scene

Monday , December 17, 2007

An EMS team is under review after mistakenly declaring a woman dead at a Texas crash scene, KSAT.com reports.

A yellow sheet was draped over Erica Smith, 23, at the crash scene in San Antonio on Sunday, a standard EMS practice for fatalities, the site reports.

But investigators with the Bexar County Medical Examiner's Office found Smith was still alive, KSAT.com reports.

Two hours passed before the woman could be transported to a hospital, where she was listed in critical condition Sunday night, the site reports.

The driver of the other car, Jenny Ybarra, who was legally intoxicated at the time of the crash, has been charged with three counts of intoxication assault, officials told KSAT.com.

FULL STORY: http://www.ksat.com/news/14867765/detail.html

[firemoose827 324]

I wonder what happened to mke the crew think she was dead? Was she mangled up bad and they thought it was "Obvious Death"? Scary thing. I guess thats why we have to confirm in three leads? There was only 3 other patients so I wonder what happened. Not enough in the story to be able to tell. Hopefully our brothers handle this ok and they find out more to the story.

[WAS967 97]

If there were three other patients and the EMS crew found the patient not breathing despite and airway maneuver, they could well have declared her dead under START triage and moved onto the other three patients that could be helped. There are dozens of scenarios in which this COULD happen. Without all the information one just doesn't know.

And what do you need to confirm in three leads for? If you are dealing with a single patient scenario (albeit this one was not) and you need to put the monitor on the "confirm in three leads" then you clearly are unsure the patient is dead and should be working the code. Obvious death is just that. Obvious. If the patient has rigor, lividity, decapitation, or other injuries that are incompatible with life, they are DEAD.

PS....please stop calling ALS for a "declaration" - EMTs are just as capable (or should be) of knowing that rigor/lividity = DOA.

Edited December 20, 2007 by WAS967

[Future Fireman 4]

As Homer Simpson says so humorously "D'oh!"

The sad thing is that somebody was legally intoxicated! My personal opinion: One milliliter of alcohol (with the exception of medical uses and mouthwash) you don't drive for the next 2 days.

Mike

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I guess thats why we have to confirm in three leads?

One thing to keep in mind is if you are making a decison that a trauma patient isn't viable, this may still do no good being they could be in PEA, so confirming in 3 leads means nothing. You have to go by obvious death injuries in making your first judgement, ie decapitation, open head trauma with brain matter etc. When all else fails and you have the resources and capability work them.

Without knowing exactly what led them to make that decision based on the patient's status/injuries its hard to get a picture of what their thought process was. Perhaps they felt or there was other patients that needed more immediate attention with what they arrived with, but it still doesn't mean you don't go back and check on the person you basically "black" tagged mentally. If anything think of them as a yellow and go back and recheck them.

While I have also had the "declaration" I have no problem getting to the scene to do a pronouncement to assist my local PD and hopefully assist the process along to get their officer back on the road with pretty much all of them having thin resources available already.

One milliliter of alcohol (with the exception of medical uses and mouthwash) you don't drive for the next 2 days.

LOL. While I love your candor and your seriousness of the issue which I hope you maintain throughout your life, 1 mm isn't all that much brother! No one from a Jets game would be able to go home until the following Saturday....how else can we put ourselves out of our misery!

[Future Fireman 4]

ALS, I know 1 mL isn't all that much. That's just my opinion and I have no plan to change it. Find another way to get your misery out of you. Maybe beat oh say, the Titans!

Mike

[Guest alsfirefighter]

LOL. Good one Future....but who the hell wants to win now? High draft pick baby!

[louis 1]

one very important factor has not been metioned. What was the ambient temperture during the accident. They have had cold weather in Texas. Did Hypotherma set in. Remember their dead until there warm and dead. Aslo what was the condition of the patient. Never assume a patient is dead until full assessments are done. Was extracation involved? Was there any v-tach or v-fib on the monitor. Where there Paramedics on scene to try to administer meds? To many questions still open. In my Department if there is obvious death thats one thing, but if were not sure do to weather conditions or vehicle conditions we will still work the patient and transport to the closest hospital or trama center.

[helicopper 1,050]

one very important factor has not been metioned. What was the ambient temperture during the accident. They have had cold weather in Texas. Did Hypotherma set in. Remember their dead until there warm and dead. Aslo what was the condition of the patient. Never assume a patient is dead until full assessments are done. Was extracation involved? Was there any v-tach or v-fib on the monitor. Where there Paramedics on scene to try to administer meds? To many questions still open. In my Department if there is obvious death thats one thing, but if were not sure do to weather conditions or vehicle conditions we will still work the patient and transport to the closest hospital or trama center.

You mean they're not dead until they're warm and dead, right?

Too many unanswered questions to know for sure what the mistake was - if there was one.