Engine Company Hose Loads

[Remember585 815]

I was on another site and it got me thinking. On your Engines, what hose do you have? What's your primary supply line? How much do you carry? Do you carry 1 3/4", 2", 2 1/2", 3", etc? What kind of nozzles, appliances and packs are you using? And most importantly, what advantages / disadvantages do you find with them?

On my Engine Company we have:

One 100' 1 3/4" trashline on the bumper with a fog nozzle.

Three 200 foot 1 3/4" crosslays with Sabrejet nozzles.

Two 2 1/2" preconnects off the tail with Smooth Bore nozzles. One is 200' the other 300' (still waiting on 100' of 2 1/2").

Dead lays include 700 feet of extra 1 3/4" / 700 feet of 2 1/2" with a gated "Y" for courtyard stretches and our bed of 1350 feet of 5".

All pre-connected hose is color-coded from the pump panel to the hose itself and the nozzle handles. Makes life a little easier. Having the 2 1/2" with the "Y" will come in handy for us at several complexes in our district.

Discuss...

Edited December 10, 2007 by Remember585

[Danger 160]

Crosslays: 200' 1 3/4" w/ smoothbore

200' 1 3/4" w/ TFT Combo

200' 2" w/ TFT Combo

Rear: 200’ 2 ½” smooth bore preconnected

400’ 3” blitzfire deadload

1000' 5"

200’ 3” to water thief to 150’ 2” w/ TFT

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

Attack engine: Engine 5

100' - 1.75" front bumper line with TFT

200' - 1.75" crosslays with TFT x 2

200' - 2.50" crosslay with Akron turbojet

200' - 2.50" rear preconnect with Akron turbojet

250' - 1.75" rear preconnect with Akron mid-matic

400' - 3" with waterthief

1000' - 5" supply

Supply / Hosewagon : Engine 6

100' - 1.75" trash line in pass. side running board w TFT

200' - 1.75" crosslays with TFT 2x

150' - 2.5" rear preconnect with Akron turbojet

2000' - 5" supply

[IzzyEng4 427]

Since we have a rescue engine, our stock is a little lower but pretty much kept to the standards.

Front bumper - - 1/2" discharge gated with a wye. 100 ft of 1-3/4 preconnected hose to the wye, 50 feet dead lay of 1-3/4" under the preconnect.

Crosslays

Two 1-3/4" crosslays with 250 feet of hose

One 2-1/2" cross lay with 250 feet of hose

Rear bed

1500 feet of 5" supply line

600 feet of of 3" in supply hose (hydrant to truck dead-lay)

500 feet of 3" feeder / attack hose

One high-rise pack with 100 feet of 1-3/4 and a separate pack with 100 feet of 2-1/2.

[Monty 35]

Since we have a rescue engine, our stock is a little lower but pretty much kept to the standards.

Front bumper - - 1/2" discharge gated with a wye. 100 ft of 1-3/4 preconnected hose to the wye, 50 feet dead lay of 1-3/4" under the preconnect.

Crosslays

Two 1-3/4" crosslays with 250 feet of hose

One 2-1/2" cross lay with 250 feet of hose

Rear bed

1500 feet of 5" supply line

600 feet of of 3" in supply hose (hydrant to truck dead-lay)

500 feet of 3" feeder / attack hose

One high-rise pack with 100 feet of 1-3/4 and a separate pack with 100 feet of 2-1/2.

Not sure how serious you were ... talking about a lower stock. 2600 feet of supply hose seems like quite a lot to me!

I know you have 4 attack lines, but there seems to be a lot of opinion out there to limiting the number of attack lines coming off any one piece of apparatus to two anyway.

Personally, I'd like to change our layout but we're limited by the amount of hose we have available. We have:

100' 1.5" Trash Line

200' 1.75" Pre-connected cross lays

200' 1.75" Pre-connected cross lays

900' 5" Supply line

300' 3" Supply line

150' 2.5" Pre-connect

300' 1.75" Pre-connect

500' 1.75" Dead load

I'd like to add more to the 2.5", maybe as dead 3" hose if we don't get any new 2.5" - however we have to drop the 5" to reconfigure the hose bed for space for that 3". I'd also like to take off the dead 1.75" and add a blitzfire type monitor to a couple hundred feet of 3" - unfortunately, all I think my fire truck is going to get from Santa is some coal

[IzzyEng4 427]

Monty, we used to carry more three inch dead lays and five inch supply with our old truck due to some long lays in on section of our first due district and the highway. I'm just very used to having a lot of hose on a truck.

[Guest]

Monty, why have all that 1.75 hose? Based on the limited amount of LDH on the rig you must have hydrants, so you should use larger diameter hose and keep the friction loss down.

[E-38VMFD 0]

Engine 38 VMFD

"Crosslays"

2 -1-3/4" 200ft pre-connect crosslays with TFT combos

1 -2" 150ft deadload W/ straight bore nozzle

"Trash line" in bumper- 100ft 1-/34 pre-connect w/ TFT nozzle combos

"hi-rise packs" 2-75ft lengths of rubbberized 2" w/ straight bore nozzle

"Off the back"

400ft of 1-3/4 deadload w/TFT combo nozzle

(crosslays are sufficient for most residential houses, the 1-3/4 off the back is to add on OR to Make and break more handlines w/ extra nozzles in officer side rear compartment)

1200ft of rubberized 5" supply

300ft of 2-1/2 handline Deadload w/ fog nozzle

800ft of 3" supply line w/ a wide gate

[Monty 35]

Monty, why have all that 1.75 hose? Based on the limited amount of LDH on the rig you must have hydrants, so you should use larger diameter hose and keep the friction loss down.

Because it's always been that way We only just got the 5", before that we had 1500' of 3" hose. Most of our district does have hydrants, although there are some long driveways where you might get from a hydrant to the fire with two engines.

The way the hose bed is laid out, it's not the best place for hose, that part is probably about 6" high as it is over the ladder compartment. The only thing I think that much 1.75" is possibly good for is a brush fire. We did request some bigger hose (2.5") earlier this year but it didn't make the cut, but we'll be trying again next year.

[lad45der 78]

Because it's always been that way We only just got the 5", before that we had 1500' of 3" hose. Most of our district does have hydrants, although there are some long driveways where you might get from a hydrant to the fire with two engines.

The way the hose bed is laid out, it's not the best place for hose, that part is probably about 6" high as it is over the ladder compartment. The only thing I think that much 1.75" is possibly good for is a brush fire. We did request some bigger hose (2.5") earlier this year but it didn't make the cut, but we'll be trying again next year.

In the city of Stamford we use 2" hose with smoothbore nozzles with a 1" tip. No combination nozzles.

[fireguy5 0]

On our engine we carry the following:

Engine 5 (Danbury)

100' 1 3/4" trash line

150' 1 3/4" crosslay #1

200' 1 3/4" crosslay #2

250' 2 1/2" preconnect with gated Y

300' 3" preconnect with gated Y

1450' 5" with hydrant hookup

150' 1 3/4 high rise pack

25' front connection for 5"

We just upgraded to scott pack with the buddy breathing and also led face piece.

We use all pistol style nozzle with fog pattern capaiblties.

Thats all we carry on our single engine.

[ny10570 745]

Roofsopen, many volley depts in Westchester have a death grip on combination nozzles. It makes 2 1/2 a much tougher line to handle and drives everyone to 1 3/4

[Monty 35]

Roofsopen, many volley depts in Westchester have a death grip on combination nozzles. It makes 2 1/2 a much tougher line to handle and drives everyone to 1 3/4

I used to be strongly for TFT - now I'm not so sure. With a TFT, assuming you get at least the nozzle pressure at or above the operating pressure - you're guaranteed a 'good' pattern. Now with the original TFT's it was always 100psi, now they seem to offer Nozzles as low as 55psi. Personally I've thought they're good for less practiced MPO's. You can accomodate a lot of different pump pressures - you can gate down the nozzle if you're being over pumped.

A smooth bore has simplicity going for it. However, basically you are on or off for an effective stream. To flow different water amounts you have to change your bore size.

So, fwiw, I think if you have decent MPO's who can take in to account fritcion loss then you can get a decent stream at the tip, the nozzleman can move to a larger bore if more water is needed and then have the MPO adjust for increased GPM flow - go with the smooth bore. If you have someone who pumps once a year - or less often, go with the TFT. (And completly forget about Fixed Gallonage nozzles!).

[ny10570 745]

Valid points monty, but streams don't put out fire, GPMs do. As long as you have a sufficient flow you will have enough of a reach to attack the seat of the fire. If you don't have enough reach you're either under pumping or on too small of a line.

[Guest jblazing56]

Our 16-4-2 American Lafrance

2 300 ft 1 3/4 color coded crosslay

1 200 ft 2 1/2 color coded crosslay

all cross lays have smooth bore nozzles

under the pump panel

1 200 1 3/4 trash line with fog nozzle

off the back we have

1800 ft of 3 1/2 for a driveway lay

300ft 2 1/2 for a safety backup line.

on the officers side

1 50ft peice of 5 inch (rarely used)

Edited December 11, 2007 by jblazing56

[Guest]

Danbury Engine 9

Pre-Connected Crosslays

100' - 1 3/4" with Elkhart Chief combination nozzle (car fire & trash line)

150' - 2" with Elkhart Chief combination nozzle

200' - 2" with Elkhart Chief combination nozzle

Off the rear

300' - 2" with smoothbore (Pre-Connected)

250' - 2 1/2" with smoothbore (Pre-Connected)

700' - 2 1/2" with smoothbore (deadload)

1400' - 5" supply

[ldrco195 17]

Our Engine Co. Attack Line Configs...

www.mvfd5.com

E52 -

Front Bumper:

1.5" x 150' Quick Deploy Load (Super Secret Squirrel Load)

Crosslays:

(2) 2" x 200'

- 1 w/ pipe

- 1 w/ combo

(2) 1.5" x 200'

- 1 w/ pipe

- 1 w/ combo

Rear Layout:

(1) 2" x 300' w/ Pipe

(1) 2.5" x 300' w/ Pipe

(1) 2.5" x 300' w/ Combo

E51 -

Front Bumper:

1.5" x 150' Quick Deploy Load (Super Secret Squirrel Load)

Crosslays:

(1) 2" x 200'

(1) 1.5" x 200'

- both w/ COMBO Elkhart Chiefs

[Guest]

It is interesting to see all of the different loads used. One thing to consider is to look to the NFPA standard for the amount of each type of hose that should be carried. While it may not exactly fit the department's needs, you really get dinged for lack of equipment when ISO rates the quality of fire protection. We spend a lot of taxpayer money on apparatus. The least we can do is to maximize the credit for apparatus. We owe that to the public. So, design the appratus to fit the needs of the community, but where it makes sense, also think of the taxpayer ramifications.

What a great PR opportunity to say that you are keeping homeowner insurance premiums down by equipping your apparatus properly. And, it gives you a justification to buy certain apparatus and equip it in a certain way at budget time. The rebate to the customer far outweighs the cost of carrying a few extra lengths of 2.5 inch or larger hose.