Three Civilians Killed in Crash with Baltimore Rig

[PVFD233 68]

from firehouse.com

Three Civilians Killed in Crash with Baltimore Rig

Updated: 12-09-2007 11:12:35 AM

BALTIMORE -- Three civilians were killed early Sunday when their SUV collided with a Baltimore City fire truck.

Preliminary reports indicate the truck was en route to a call for smoke in a building when it collided with the SUV at the intersection of Park Heights Avenue and Clark's Lane.

Four firefighters were transported to the hospital for treatment, according to published reports.

The occupants of the SUV were taken to a local hospital where they were pronounced dead.

The crash occurred about 3 a.m.

More information will be posted when it becomes available.

Incident Alert

Edited December 9, 2007 by SPFC56-233

[trauma74 111]

I know that everyone will be quick to point the finger at the FD, but we should wait for a more detailed report to be released.

[PVFD233 68]

I know that everyone will be quick to point the finger at the FD, but we should wait for a more detailed report to be released.

Very true. Also I read this on another publication other then firehouse.com and it said they were responding to a building fire/cpmpared to a building full of smoke. A good example of how things are being reported early on. Very sad day for all involved.

Edited December 9, 2007 by SPFC56-233

[Oswegowind 17]

Very true. Also I read this on another publication other then firehouse.com and it said they were responding to a building fire/cpmpared to a building full of smoke. A good example of how things are being reported early on. Very sad day for all involved.

You say tomato, I say tomato...not as easy to do by typing. No matter what the CALL, you still have to drive with due regard and caution. I am not saying this is the case, however until all is known the media does and will speculate. As is said everytime, Emergency Service Workers are and always will be in the spotlight because of the JOB duties! And smoke usually means fire, no? Even if it is controlled...smoke doesn't just appear! Except when you use a smoke generating machine with a solvent that does just that! The truth is the media does get things wrong, but so does everyone else, as well it is time to put a stop to these type incidents! 99% can be prevented by people just calming down especially while driving an emergency vehicle. Response times to medical calls are an issue because of the length, however it does appear that people are still rushing in an unsafe manner to fire-matic type calls instead of putting safety first. Once again, I am not assuming this in this specific situation, but it makes you wonder, no?

[Guest Photounit]

Link to some photo's.....

http://www.firepix1075.smugmug.com/gallery/3963570#

[JCESU 20]

A bad day to say the least.

How do you guys feel about having on board video cams in the trucks. Especially for incidents such as this one.

[steve shryock 0]

I think it's a wonderful idea. Pros: operators remember that all their moves are being recorded and may drive more defensively to promote due regard; video recording of actual events so that all others can see what the operator saw. cuts out the bs in the versions of the stories from "witnesses". Finally a great tool for training and debriefing.

cons: video recording of the actual events should an operator not be operating with due regard.

overall in the beginning it may not be so good but down the road after use for some time it wll do nothing but increase the skills of the operators and safety for all.

Edited December 10, 2007 by steve shryock

[tdc202 0]

I agree I think it would help us more than hurt us. If you are driving with due regard then you have nothing to worry about when the lawyers cone knocking if you unfortunately have an accident.

[helicopper 1,050]

cons: video recording of the actual events should an operator not be operating with due regard.

Why is that a con? Don't you WANT to detect and remediate errant drivers?

[Monty 35]

From Firefighter close calls, another unfortunate incident for Baltimore, although the Audio Clip seems to be very professional.

UPDATE: BALTIMORE FATAL APPARATUS CRASH-RADIO TRAFFIC AUDIO LINK

Thursday, December 13, 2007

The crash in Baltimore was witnessed by other responding companies and the audio to that radio traffic is linked below. (see audio link below)

Reports are that a surveillance camera took pictures of the Baltimore City fire apparatus proceeding into the intersection and other Firefighters may have seen the apparatus run a red light. The crash killed 3 civilians.

Truck 27 was responding at around 0300 Sunday, responding to a report of smoke in the hallway of a house when the truck struck a sport utility vehicle, killing Mikhail Petrov, 35; his wife, Iryna Petrov, 49; and their friend Igor Saub, 24.

Both the PD and the FD are investigating the crash to determine whether the driver of the apparatus or Iryna Petrov, who was driving the SUV, failed to stop at a red light. If authorities determine the apparatus driver failed to stop at the signal, the case would be referred to a city prosecutor. Naturally, all of the Firefighters involved are extremely shook up. Media in the Baltimore area is reporting that the Fire Apparatus Driver had completed a Maryland Fire Rescue Institute 39 hours emergency vehicle operations course. That course is reported to be mandatory for everyone who operates a fire truck in the Baltimore City FD and is followed by additional training at the station level. RADIO TRAFFIC LINK:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal...7648263.mp3file

RED LIGHT? STOP SIGN? Just STOP (or require your members to STOP) when responding and only go through when you are sure that NOTHING is in the way or coming. Does your STATE LAW allow responding companies and units to run a red light or stop sign? Of course it does-almost all do. It’s the issue of not crashing into anything that’s the factor....and the ONLY way to minimize that chance is to STOP and make sure it is fully clear no matter what we are responding to.

[steve shryock 0]

I agree with you. My reasoning for putting it as a con was from a civil claims perspective, there are reduced arguments for the defense of the operator.

I am all for video cameras in the vehicles that have a minimum of 10 minutes video history (maybe 8 minutes prior to accident and 2 minutes post accident) also I believe the video should have audio and connections to the on board vehicle computer to determine if the emergency lights are activated, spedometer and a brake indicator.

[Monty 35]

Here's an update:

Hey...

Baltimore City Police have confirmed that Baltimore City FD Truck 27 had the red light and was going 47 mph when it ran thru that red light, striking an SUV, killing 3 people on Sunday morning.

The civilian SUV was traveling about 23 mph through their green signal when it was struck by the ladder truck. Cops say the driver of the SUV, Iryna Petrov, 49, had a blood-alcohol content level of .06, just below the legal limit of .08. The cops have not yet decided if charges will be filed against the Fire Apparatus Operator.

Once the cops conclude their investigation, the results will be turned over to prosecutors as this nightmare for all affected continues.

The driver of Truck 27 is Nathaniel D. Moore, 40, a firefighter and paramedic apprentice who joined the FD 3 years ago. Passengers in the apparatus were Lt. Thomas Moore, a 33-year veteran, not related to the driver; Darryl Alexander, a 25-year veteran; and Kenneth Jacobs, a 13-year veteran.

All emergency vehicles operating in Baltimore City are required to stop at red lights, even when responding to calls...drivers can proceed through a red light or a stop sign after stopping and ensuring that the intersection is clear. Cops said Truck 27 was the 3rd of 4 fire vehicles to travel through the intersection within seconds of each other that morning, while en route to a nearby apartment complex to check on a report of smoke in the hallway of an apartment complex. Additional details will follow.

EVERY FIREFIGHTER or EMS Member who drives ANY emergency vehicle needs to be aware of this latest incident and understand what a nightmare this can be. STOP AT RED LIGHTS AND STOP SIGNS.

HERE is the IAFC Guide to Model Policies and Procedures for Emergency Vehicle Safety which also includes all State Statutes for those who wanna argue with you.

http://www.iafc.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1...barticlenbr=602

Take Care-BE CAREFUL. STOP AT RED LIGHTS AND STOP SIGNS. Enforce it...no matter what.

BillyG

The Secret List 12-13-07 / 1238 hours

www.FireFighterCloseCalls.com

I wonder if the other vehicles that went through the intersection followed their procedures and stopped? I wonder if the civilian driver seeing a fire truck or two go through the intersection thought that it was now clear? Especially given the effects of the alcohol in the system.

As for video cameras on the truck - it would help give a better indication of what is going on - and maybe a deterrent and make drivers pay a bit more attention. Even without onboard video, there's a good chance it will still be on video somewhere, and on newer equipment of course you have the black boxes.

[Truck4 48]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal...al_tab01_layout

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Well it can be pretty much surmised that the civil case probably will be settled out of court with that finding. I'll be shocked if criminal charges aren't brought either with the way things have been evolving nationwide with fatal accidents contributed to apparatus operator negligence.

[Oswegowind 17]

I believe that there are no "CONS" when it comes to cameras mounted in Emergency Vehicles. As emergency personnel and civil servants, we have a responsibility to act appropriately, follow all rules, and provide a good example of how things should be done. It is about time that persons entering into this job step up to the plate and lead with that type of thinking. Everyone is so afraid of being caught doing something wrong or dishonest, well cut the $hit and stop ruining the name of each service. If you don't like it or are not ready to be a honest person and serve the public appropriately then find something else to do with your life. Stop drinking on duty, stop being shady, do your jobs to the best of your ability, and realize that working together is the best way to get things done!

All emergency vehicles should come with cameras and GPS devices. It is time to take responsibility in a world that doesn't understand what that is. It is time for us to lead the public by example, how can we expect them to know what to do when we obviously don't show them enough?