What Is Next?: Another Christmas Decoration Conterversy

[FFD941 20]

I don't want this to turn into an arguement but what is everyones feeling on the following article in the POJO

Wednesday, December 5, 2007

Manger could be removed from town hall property

By John Davis

Poughkeepsie Journal

HYDE PARK - Due to a complaint, the manger scene in front of town hall might have to come down.

Hyde Park Supervisor Pompey Delafield today said the local Knights of Columbus could be required to remove the manger.

The supervisor was reacting to a letter the town received today from the Jewish Federation of Dutchess County, which is based in the City of Poughkeepsie.

Bonnie Meadow, federation executive director, said it is against the law to display religious symbols on government property.

"Many citizens and residents of Hyde Park who are not of the Christian faith, while respecting the rights of Christians to practice their religions in their homes and places of worship, are offended by the presence of this religious symbol at their town hall and have brought their grievance to my attention," Meadow said in the letter.

The Hyde Park Knights of Columbus have put up the manger scene in front of town hall on Route 9 every Christmas for close to 30 years, said Dean Davis of the Knights.

Davis said he was outraged that the Knights might have to take down the manger only days after putting it up.

"They are taking Christmas from us," he said. "It's Christ's Mass. If they want to do that, it's going to ruin the whole country."

The town supervisor said he had never had a problem with the manger, but said if it ever created a conflict he prefer having it taken down.

"I believe in separation of church and state," Delafield said.

Delafield said he is having the town attorney research the legality of religious symbols on government property and whether the manger should be removed.

Reach John Davis at jpdavis@poughkeepsiejournal.com or 845-437-4807

I completely agree with every persons right to religon and speech, but has this gone too far?? The Manger has been there for 30 years.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

This has been an on going debate in the Town of Bedford for the past few years as well if I remember correctly

[nycemt728 49]

I don't want this to turn into an arguement but what is everyones feeling on the following article in the POJO

I completely agree with every persons right to religon and speech, but has this gone too far?? The Manger has been there for 30 years.

Tradition alone, unfortunaltey does not make somthng legal or right, no matter how simple or well intentioned the act. While I don't necessarily agree with the complaint, and I won't weigh in on the rights and wrong of church and state seperation, the placement does appear to be a violation of the law.

Edited December 6, 2007 by nycemt728

[JetPhoto 626]

This country is really starting to suck. All these can't do this can't do that, can't say this don't even think about saying that. This is why this country is going down hill fast, the economy, the reputation and our freedom!

(I don't know if anyone else heard this but someone was saying the next round of quarters will no longer say "In god we trust")

The next thing is gonna be that fire departments will no longer be allowed to bring Santa around their districts!

[Guest]

everything has to be politically correct these days...i hope no one is surprised by this...if so, welcome out of you hibernation!!

...i actually have a funny email i got on the "defination" of being "politically correct." when i find it, i will post it...

but...

as much of a pain as it is, it's all or none. either you satisfy EVERYONE or no one gets the pleasures of looking at their religious symbols.

tonight at my vac we did a little decorating. we put up the tree (fake, incase members have allergies) and the Menorah.

not too many places have a Menorah up (that i have personally seen), but you gotta respect the views of others.

im sure if someone in our vac celebrated Kwanza, im sure we'd have whatever they decorate that holiday with. i know its an ethnic holiday and not religious...but you still have to respect and even appreciate their views.

[Guest]

found it, hope you like it!

The following is the 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

This year's term: Political Correctness.

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Edited December 6, 2007 by vacguy

[Guest EFFP411]

i think they should put a menorah up right next to it, then they cant say anything. then they will be "diversifying the view" per say. I'd like to see someone tell the PD on our town they can't have a christmas tree outside the station....

[ex-commish 490]

Another agenda by the politically corrected catered to. Pathetic !!!

[fire2141 33]

"Political correctness" brought to you by the same people who gave you gun control, welfare and no end to the illegal alien problem.

[Doc 11]

What really fries my grits on this issue is that THIS objection to the manger in Hyde Park was brought up by the Jewish Federation that just got special treatment for their menorah in the City of Poughkeepsie! A menorah that was constructed by City DPW workers, whereas the manger as set up by the local Knights of Columbus. And the Rabbi who oversaw the menorah lighting was SO busy announcing the triumph of the FREEDOM OF RELIGION, while at the same time they are squashing those of others elsewhere.

[Medic137 6]

Bonnie Meadow and the Jewish Federation of Dutchess County have every right to protest an overtly religious symbol on public property. BUT, they do not have any right to be OFFENDED by it. We have a new group of "The Professionally Offended" who think anything they don't agree with is an attack on them and their herritage. They will next demand an APOLOGY from someone in a position of authority for hurting their FEELINGS.

[IzzyEng4 427]

This is the United States of America, people should remember where they came from and grow some sack! Heck there is a group out in Cali that I heard is trying to get "Ho! Ho! Ho!" band becaue of its "new" literal sense (Thanks Imus) COME ON, GET REAL! People in this country have really turned out to be a bunch of woosies.

We were once feared by every nation that either kicked out, forced out, took out our ancestors and now we are the laughing stock of the world.

Political correctness = a lame excuse for not giving someone respect.

[DOC22 1]

found it, hope you like it!

The following is the 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

This year's term: Political Correctness.

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!

[x635 4,066]

I don't practice any religion, but I do believe in god.

With that said, I feel that Christmas has become two seperate things. A religous event, and, well, the Christmas that we know with presents, giving, holiday parties, Santa etc.

There is seperation of Church and State. It is one thing to put up some Christmas Decorations and a Menorah, but I think a manger is taking it a little too far. However, if one religous display is going to be up, then should anyone else should be free to make a display about their holiday as well at the same location?

Put it in this perspective- if you sent your child who has no religous affiliation to public schools, and the teacher and school tried to push the religion they believed in, would you be upset?

It's a very conflicted and contradicting holiday. I mean, Christmas is a federal Holiday (seperation of Church and State?), but Hannukah and other holidays are not? Where is the line drawn?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

If another religious group wants to put up decorations in front of town hall, they could do that. But don't take away Christmas decorations becuase you like complaining.

[Guest]

Funny how she didnt write a letter about the huge menorah in the middle of the city of poughkeepsie!!! Maybe everyone that lives near her should put up a nativity and maybe she will stay in her house and not ruin any more of the holiday!!!!!!

[tdc202 0]

I just found this on pojonews.com

Update: Jewish Federation rescinds request, apologizes

Hyde Park will leave Nativity scene

By John Davis

Poughkeepsie Journal

HYDE PARK – A manger scene will remain on the lawn of town hall.

A day after asking the town to remove the nativity scene, Bonnie Meadow, executive director of the Jewish Federation of Dutchess County, has withdrawn her request.

The public outcry following her request was more than Meadow expected, she said in a letter today to Hyde Park Supervisor Pompey Delafield. She had asked the town to remove the manger scene, claiming it offended some non-Christians in Hyde Park and that it violated federal law.

“I never dreamt that my request to remove the nativity scene at the offices of the Town of Hyde Park would upset so many people so much,” Meadow said in the letter. “It was never my intent to hurt anyone or to spoil their holidays. In view of the public outcry, I hereby rescind my request to you.

“I apologize for whatever difficulty this may have caused and I wish you and your community a very Merry Christmas and happy holidays,” she said.

After researching the legality of the issue, Hyde Park Supervisor Pompey Delafield today said the manger will stay due to it being a longstanding tradition. He did not mention, however, that Meadow had withdrawn her request.

“The Hyde Park Knights of Columbus have provided and maintained a nativity scene as part of a 30-year-old holiday celebration,” Delafield said in a prepared statement this afternoon. “We have and will continue to honor that tradition again this year. This display is the property of the Knights of Columbus and we will continue to work with them to address any appropriate future tradition for the nativity scene after the holidays.”

Delafied also said the town will welcome the placement of other religious symbols on the town hall lawn.

“The town honors all religions in this holiday season and would be open to a similar display of the menorah to honor the season of Chanukah, or any other appropriate season display as a part of this year’s holiday offering at town hall,” Delafield said in the statement.

The Hyde Park Knights of Columbus, a Catholic men's organization, have put up the manger scene on the town hall lawn every Christmas season for more than 30 years.

Dean Davis, a local Knight, said he was contacted by the town Wednesday about removing the manger scene.

"They are taking Christmas from us," he said. "It's Christ's Mass. If they want to do that, it's going to ruin the whole country."

After receiving a request Wednesday from the Jewish Federation of Dutchess County to remove the nativity scene, the town officials said they were considering asking the Knights of Columbus to remove it.

Meadow said in her original request the manger offended some non-Christians in Hyde Park and the display of religious symbols on government property was a violation of federal law.

After receiving that letter, Delafield said he would have the town attorney research the legality of the manger scene.

"If the law says it has to come down, it will have to come down," Delafield said Wednesday.

The town supervisor said he never had a problem with the manger scene on the lawn, but if it became one for others, he would prefer seeing it removed.

"I did not want to make an issue out of it," he said. "I believe in the separation of church and state."

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Okay this topic should be closed. If we can't discuss a POLICE ISSUE, FIRE ISSUE or EMS ISSUE, we certainly can't discuss a RELIGIOUS ISSUE.

This makes me sick. All the people that don't want lights up. The people that say Happy Holidays when it is Thanksgiving. What happened to Happy Thanksgiving. I say MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE. If you happen to be JEWISH I will then say HAPPY HANUKAH(sorry for the spelling). That is where I draw the line. You won't get anything else out of me.

As for the Manger, I don't care if you are Christian or Jewish. CHRIST or JESUS if want to call him that WAS A JEW can we agree on that? So that shouldn't bother anybody of the JEWISH RELIGION. Put a Menorah up next to the MANGER that won't bother me, but don't remove something because somebody all of a sudden feels offended. This COUNTRY IS GOING TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET. REMOVE THIS, REMOVE THAT. DON"T SAY THIS, DON"T SAY THAT. When is going to end?

It makes me sick that you can't refer to certain HOLIDAYS in PUBLIC SCHOOLS ANYMORE. My wife is a CATHOLIC SCHOOL TEACHER AND I AM GLAD THAT THEY STILL HAVE CHRISTMAS THERE.

Leave it alone.