Firefighters can't ride the back step but why can garbage men?

[IzzyEng4 427]

Hey all, I had posted this orignally as a joke in the Commercial vs. Custom apparatus topics as a joke.

Well at least you can ride the rear step of a garbage truck!! <joking>

and Snotty replied:

IZZYENG4 BRINGS UP AN INTERESTING POINT HOW IN THIS DAY AND AGE CAN GARBAGEMEN RIDE ON A STEP ABOUT 4INCHES SQUARE AT CRAZY SPEEDS OR WHILE THE DRIVER BACKS UP FASTER THAN HE GOES FORWARD, JUST WONDERING .

Why is this the case? We as firefighters operated under NFPA and OSHA standards / recommendations but what to garbage haulers fall under and can still ride the rear step. Any clue?

[mikeinet 37]

that's a pretty good question... one thought could be that garbage men generally travel only a block or two at a time on the backstep while fire apparatus are going a lot faster... going through intersections against traffic (so higher potential for accidents) and travel longer distances...?

[JM15 386]

I see what you are saying Mike but there is still a big risk of falling off and getting crushed or of being hit. I think that it is a dangerous practice that should be stopped. Maybe they do it just because its tradition. I assume that a garbage hauling company like Waste Management would fall under the provision of OSHA.

[moggie6 54]

It's not so much as tradition but what gets the job done. I went out of the fire station one day and helped the guys from DPW toss the trash into the hopper. It's a work out. Then to get back into the truck to drive 50 feet.....kinda pointless. The DPW workers themselves know whats safe and when to get back in the cab of the vehicle.

[Guest]

The real question is why there are more garbage men on a garbage truck then firefighters on a fire truck.

[Guest]

The real question is why there are more garbage men on a garbage truck then firefighters on a fire truck.

That my friend is excellent! Why cant people who can change that be as observant!

[Guest CRASH]

that's a pretty good question... one thought could be that garbage men generally travel only a block or two at a time on the backstep while fire apparatus are going a lot faster... going through intersections against traffic (so higher potential for accidents) and travel longer distances...?

.

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sorry but i disagree

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i have a friend who dispatches for a private sanitation company and they came up short one night he often went on the road at night for the extra $$$ well last winter on peekskill hollow road a truck flew by them and something went wrong he was thrown from the tail hit knocked out and had to be statflighted with serious injuries needless to say he is ok but yet will never be the same........

[efdny2003 16]

I would assume the reasons garbagemen are allowed to ride the back of garbage trucks and firefighters arent allowed to ride the backs of trucks because of speed. I see the garbage truck go by and its probably not goin 10 miles an hr if that, because figure they have to stop very frequently so the guys can get the garbage. Whereas fire trucks are going 30, 40 miles an hour to get to an emergency...hitting bumps and making turns along the way. Its probably all down to liability, legality, and probably many other factors.

[LTNRFD 266]

that's a pretty good question... one thought could be that garbage men generally travel only a block or two at a time on the backstep while fire apparatus are going a lot faster... going through intersections against traffic (so higher potential for accidents) and travel longer distances...?

I know a guy 22 years old, that worked for a commercial hauler and fell off the step as the truck rounded a corner. It wasn't going fast at all and only going about 50 yards to the next stop when he fell. He was on the corner side of the truck and he went under the rear wheels. Wasn't much left for organ donation. The report stated that 'he slipped off the step'.

I can remember the days that we would ride the back step and don our turn out gear at the same time. One hand on the bar and the other slipping on the 3/4 hip boots then the turn out coat, hit a bump that would send you to Mars and not fall off. Go figure.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

The real question is why there are more garbage men on a garbage truck then firefighters on a fire truck.

Amen!!

I am glad someone noticed this. Unfortunately, I did not even consider such a thing, but you are more than correct brother!!

[Guest voeltz 234]

It's not so much as tradition but what gets the job done. I went out of the fire station one day and helped the guys from DPW toss the trash into the hopper. It's a work out. Then to get back into the truck to drive 50 feet.....kinda pointless. The DPW workers themselves know whats safe and when to get back in the cab of the vehicle.

i work for a carting company, it is a workout and getting in and out in short distances is the mian reason thats why we just stay on the back

[trauma74 111]

About 10 years ago I was riding the rear step of our engine during our candy cane run. A call came in and the driver forgot about a few of us that were on the back. I do not know how guys did it in the past, but it was one of the scariest rides of my life!!!!!

[Guest]

I spent over 3 years on the back of the iron horse, and in that time I only stayed on the back step when going from house to house. Anytime we traveled more than 100 feet or so we got in. The G-men on the back of the trucks take a beating most days, last time I checked garbage wasn't getting any lighter or cleaner. If guys were made to get in after every stop the towns and tax payers would be complaining about all the overtime the were paying to the sanitation department, because the work day would double. Leave the guys alone, they know when its safe to stay on the back and when it's time to get in.

[LTNRFD 266]

If guys were made to get in after every stop the towns and tax payers would be complaining about all the overtime the were paying to the sanitation department, because the work day would double. Leave the guys alone, they know when its safe to stay on the back and when it's time to get in.

So that means the G-men would have to work till 5 PM. LOL

[Rescue17 0]

So that means the G-men would have to work till 5 PM. LOL

Maybe if they are going to ride on the back of garbage trucks they should atleast wear helmets.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

If I remember correctly and I'm hoping one of the brothers who have been around for a while can correct me if I'm wrong...not riding on the back step of a fire apparatus has nothing to do with OSHA. NFPA is the organization that put a squash to it. I'm not aware of a single OSHA regulation that addresses this, and again, I'm hoping if I am wrong someone can point it out to me. Unless it is considered to fall under the catchall OSHA reg about unsafe work practices will be prohibited.

The bottom line is this...I know its ridiculous to ride in an unsecure position on a fire apparatus that is often travelling continuously at moderate to extreme speeds with sudden and often hard braking. Numerous deaths were attributed to firefighters being thrown from apparatus and crushed while backing into the station or leaving as they were trying to get on. I DON'T CARE WHY GARBAGE MEN ARE ALLOWED TO RIDE ON THE BACK AND WE AREN'T. Its a good thing that we can't, even though I've seen those time and time again make excuses for it. At training, parades, etc. Maybe not many garbage haulers get killed doing so. The risk is minimized by riding a few feet at a time. I know a couple municipalities that allow it for picking up cans/material only and any other long distances they must be in the cab.

Heck, where I live the guy doesn't even get out of the truck, unless something doesn't fit in the can.

[ajsbear 11]

I remember riding the back step but then it was down county. We also used to crowd 2 or 3 into the jump set area. Now today we all ride wearing seat belts. That's one reason, everyone on the rig must wear a seat belt. In the 70's FDNY stopped when some of the men on the step got hit with bricks and other things thrown at them. I think that's when everyone in Westchester started getting rigs with crew cabs and everyone was inside. I don't remember ever reading an OSHA regulation. WIth a crew cab, warm in the winter and rigs today with AC cool in the summer, why ride the back step? Also today's rigs are not set up to ride.

Edited December 6, 2007 by ajsbear

[LTNRFD 266]

It kind of funny that when you can't have something you want it more. In the old days when you were told the back step was where you rode, you prayed that you could get in the front seat to be shielded from the rain, snow, wind and the cold. That was when there was open cabs (remember those rigs that had wipers on the inside and outside of the windshield). Now that the cabs are totally enclosed, cilmate controlled and comfortable, and we want to go back to the cruel world of the back step. Every day isn't sunny and warm. Stay safe.

[Guest]

Why would you want or need to ride on the back step of the rig anyway? The cab protects you from winds, rain, snow, and simply falling off lol. Besides, dont you use the cab to "Finish gearing up" or to to pak up? And you can hear whats going on and what to prepare for...what your headed into. I mean I guess its good if your just going to be the one who hits the hydrant, or doing a santa run lol. Myabe OSHA will approve of a strap you gotta use like the parade float ppl wear to stand on the edge and wave. Or like a ladder belt or somthing.

Edited December 5, 2007 by NRFDTL11Buff

[JohnnyOV 2]

If I remember correctly and I'm hoping one of the brothers who have been around for a while can correct me if I'm wrong...not riding on the back step of a fire apparatus has nothing to do with OSHA. NFPA is the organization that put a squash to it. I'm not aware of a single OSHA regulation that addresses this, and again, I'm hoping if I am wrong someone can point it out to me.

As a Safety Science major, this is all that I deal with, OSHA regs...and I too have yet to come across a single reg that deals with riding the back step. You are correct too when talking about the General Duty Clause that ensures employers must remove all known hazards from the work environment, even if there is no specific regulation that deals with that hazard.

[Monty 35]

There's an interesting article at http://wasteage.com/Waste_Safety/waste_playing_safe/, somewhat brought about by John Paul Rodrigues who fell off a Village of Ossining truck July 2005 and died from head injuries. The family were quite vocal about improving safety for these workers and initially sued the village. The family later withdrew the lawsuit when the village agreed to work on safety and hired a Village Safety Officer and looked to consider safety helpmets, and cameras on the back step. To be honest, I'm not sure what has happened recently in this respect though.

[Guest Firediver]

AJSBEAR, where were you "Down" county? Lower Westchester? Just Curious.

[Bunkers 0]

I know a guy who works for DSNY (dept of sanitation) and we were actually talking about this not too long ago.

He said that they are trying to do away with garbage men on the back step. He is against it because it will make a lot of extra work but it is in the best interest of the employees.

[LTNRFD 266]

As a Safety Science major, this is all that I deal with, OSHA regs...and I too have yet to come across a single reg that deals with riding the back step. You are correct too when talking about the General Duty Clause that ensures employers must remove all known hazards from the work environment, even if there is no specific regulation that deals with that hazard.

And once the manufacture puts that little sign on the back of the rig that says 'that this area is not to be used for the transport of personnel' and you get hurt. You were fore warned. Also goes for the riding compartment in reguards to being seated and belted.

Edited December 5, 2007 by LTNRFD

[jayhalsey 6]

We also used to crowd 32 or 3 into the jump set area.

Must have looked like a clown car with 32 people piled in the truck.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I wasnt going to bother posting a reply to this because as others have stated, why the hell would you want to ride the back step of a fire rig? However, it is quite interesting and seeing as how i work sanitation and am a member of an FD, figured id throw my 2 cents in lol.

As some of you have stated, us g-men ride the steps since we are literally getting on and off the truck every couple of feet (at least where i work). The truck is usually traveling at a very low rate of speed as well. If we have a long ride, we may opt to ride in the cab. Believe me, any chance i get to ride in the comfort of the cab, i will do so. If we had to get in and out of the cab for every stop, it would be ridiculous, not to mention double our work day (create overtime).

Is it a dangerous practice, hell yes! I am not saying that it is safe, just stating why we do what we do. Can accidents happen, absolutely. I have had many close calls and continue to almost every day, but at the hands of clueless motorists.

Someone mentioned John-Paul Rodrigues of Ossining who died in 05' working sanitation. Back in the late 90's, a g-man from the Town of Cortlandt was killed when the truck accidentally backed over him. Things happen, it sucks, but its life. Can we do things to ensure no other g-man is killed? Maybe, maybe not. Theres all sorts of safety standards for the fire service, but firemen are still continuously getting hurt and killed on the job. Accidents happen.

On the back of our truck at work, there is a sticker that states "do not ride back step when vehicle is in excess of 10 mph, in reverse or traveling in excess of (however many tenths of a mile)." This was placed on there by the manufacturer of the truck. So as someone said, it is there in plain view so to relieve the manufacturer of some liability.

On a side note, thank you to those of you have said that we have a tough job lol. It is quite the workout and can be very strenuous. Many people say how it must be nice to only work a few hours a day. I work from 7am-2:30pm, Mon. - Fri., no matter what time i am done with my route. Some municipalities allow their guys to go home once they are finished. For those of you who downplay the job, id tell you to try it one day if you could, i bet it would change some perspectives lol. I can honestly say that i do more physical work in one day than most people do in a week at their jobs. I, like most people, had no idea how tough a job it really is, until i started doing it 4 1/2 years ago! We work no matter what the weather is; hot, cold, rain, snow, whatever. And we work until our job is done, without stopping.

Sorry for my little rant, just figured id shed some light on the wonderful world of sanitation .

As far as fireman riding the backstep goes, i am glad that it is no longer a practice! As stated, firetrucks are usually going at least 20-30mph while en-route to calls. They are going through intersections and braking hard and often. With that being said, how safe do you think it would be to not only ride under those conditions, but to try and gear-up? Read the book "Report from Engine Co. (cant remember the # lol)," by Dennis Smith. He was a fireman in the Bronx in its heyday. In the book, he mentions several guys who were either seriously injured or killed after being thrown off the back step of the rig. As someone else said, guys were also becomming targets for the neighborhood skells who would throw objects at them.

To sum it up...is riding the back step of a garbage truck safe? No. Is riding the back step of a firetruck safe? No. Are they two completely different creatures? Yes.

As firemen, be greatful that we dont ride the back steps anymore! Trust me, you're not missing much lol. Instead of worrying about what the garbagemen do, worry about yourselves and be greatful that the fire service has somewhat changed with the times! Always practice safe methods of doing your job, regardless of what it is!

For those of you who still ride the back step of fire trucks (or on top for that matter) at parades and other events....STOP!!!

Im done now, i promise. Thank you lol.

[helicopper 1,050]

No, really, please tell us what you think!!! You could always go back to communications! Really laughing now!!!

I've seen plenty of g-men (J Edgar Hoover is rolling over in his grave right now since we stole the handle for his boys in fedoras) walking along the street instead of climbing up and down every 30-50 feet, too.

"Going 20-30 to a call" - where in the driveway of the firehouse??? Try 40-50 if not more!

It's apples and oranges. Plain and simple.

Thanks for the two cents!

I wasnt going to bother posting a reply to this because as others have stated, why the hell would you want to ride the back step of a fire rig? However, it is quite interesting and seeing as how i work sanitation and am a member of an FD, figured id throw my 2 cents in lol.

As some of you have stated, us g-men ride the steps since we are literally getting on and off the truck every couple of feet (at least where i work). The truck is usually traveling at a very low rate of speed as well. If we have a long ride, we may opt to ride in the cab. Believe me, any chance i get to ride in the comfort of the cab, i will do so. If we had to get in and out of the cab for every stop, it would be ridiculous, not to mention double our work day (create overtime).

Is it a dangerous practice, hell yes! I am not saying that it is safe, just stating why we do what we do. Can accidents happen, absolutely. I have had many close calls and continue to almost every day, but at the hands of clueless motorists.

Someone mentioned John-Paul Rodrigues of Ossining who died in 05' working sanitation. Back in the late 90's, a g-man from the Town of Cortlandt was killed when the truck accidentally backed over him. Things happen, it sucks, but its life. Can we do things to ensure no other g-man is killed? Maybe, maybe not. Theres all sorts of safety standards for the fire service, but firemen are still continuously getting hurt and killed on the job. Accidents happen.

On the back of our truck at work, there is a sticker that states "do not ride back step when vehicle is in excess of 10 mph, in reverse or traveling in excess of (however many tenths of a mile)." This was placed on there by the manufacturer of the truck. So as someone said, it is there in plain view so to relieve the manufacturer of some liability.

On a side note, thank you to those of you have said that we have a tough job lol. It is quite the workout and can be very strenuous. Many people say how it must be nice to only work a few hours a day. I work from 7am-2:30pm, Mon. - Fri., no matter what time i am done with my route. Some municipalities allow their guys to go home once they are finished. For those of you who downplay the job, id tell you to try it one day if you could, i bet it would change some perspectives lol. I can honestly say that i do more physical work in one day than most people do in a week at their jobs. I, like most people, had no idea how tough a job it really is, until i started doing it 4 1/2 years ago! We work no matter what the weather is; hot, cold, rain, snow, whatever. And we work until our job is done, without stopping.

Sorry for my little rant, just figured id shed some light on the wonderful world of sanitation .

As far as fireman riding the backstep goes, i am glad that it is no longer a practice! As stated, firetrucks are usually going at least 20-30mph while en-route to calls. They are going through intersections and braking hard and often. With that being said, how safe do you think it would be to not only ride under those conditions, but to try and gear-up? Read the book "Report from Engine Co. (cant remember the # lol)," by Dennis Smith. He was a fireman in the Bronx in its heyday. In the book, he mentions several guys who were either seriously injured or killed after being thrown off the back step of the rig. As someone else said, guys were also becomming targets for the neighborhood skells who would throw objects at them.

To sum it up...is riding the back step of a garbage truck safe? No. Is riding the back step of a firetruck safe? No. Are they two completely different creatures? Yes.

As firemen, be greatful that we dont ride the back steps anymore! Trust me, you're not missing much lol. Instead of worrying about what the garbagemen do, worry about yourselves and be greatful that the fire service has somewhat changed with the times! Always practice safe methods of doing your job, regardless of what it is!

For those of you who still ride the back step of fire trucks (or on top for that matter) at parades and other events....STOP!!!

Im done now, i promise. Thank you lol.

[Guest]

So that means the G-men would have to work till 5 PM. LOL

LTNRFD - It doesn't sound like you have ever worked on the back of a garbage truck. Most guys I know run from stop to stop, hustle their butts off with no break other than to make a trip to the dump, just to get done around 2:00. Now picture the guys walking from house to house with a couple of ten minute breaks. I think your estimation of 5:00 may be a little light. I know on the routs I was on taking our time easily would have turned into 10 hour days. (10 hour days X 5 days a week X 3 guys a truck, you do the math!)

[rfdu39 89]

Garbage men should be allowed to ride on the back step so long as they follow the rules. If they don't then they should ride in the cab.

Edited December 6, 2007 by pcfdrfd700

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I wasnt going to bother posting a reply to this because as others have stated, why the hell would you want to ride the back step of a fire rig? However, it is quite interesting and seeing as how i work sanitation and am a member of an FD, figured id throw my 2 cents in lol.

As some of you have stated, us g-men ride the steps since we are literally getting on and off the truck every couple of feet (at least where i work). The truck is usually traveling at a very low rate of speed as well. If we have a long ride, we may opt to ride in the cab. Believe me, any chance i get to ride in the comfort of the cab, i will do so. If we had to get in and out of the cab for every stop, it would be ridiculous, not to mention double our work day (create overtime).

Is it a dangerous practice, hell yes! I am not saying that it is safe, just stating why we do what we do. Can accidents happen, absolutely. I have had many close calls and continue to almost every day, but at the hands of clueless motorists.

Someone mentioned John-Paul Rodrigues of Ossining who died in 05' working sanitation. Back in the late 90's, a g-man from the Town of Cortlandt was killed when the truck accidentally backed over him. Things happen, it sucks, but its life. Can we do things to ensure no other g-man is killed? Maybe, maybe not. Theres all sorts of safety standards for the fire service, but firemen are still continuously getting hurt and killed on the job. Accidents happen.

On the back of our truck at work, there is a sticker that states "do not ride back step when vehicle is in excess of 10 mph, in reverse or traveling in excess of (however many tenths of a mile)." This was placed on there by the manufacturer of the truck. So as someone said, it is there in plain view so to relieve the manufacturer of some liability.

On a side note, thank you to those of you have said that we have a tough job lol. It is quite the workout and can be very strenuous. Many people say how it must be nice to only work a few hours a day. I work from 7am-2:30pm, Mon. - Fri., no matter what time i am done with my route. Some municipalities allow their guys to go home once they are finished. For those of you who downplay the job, id tell you to try it one day if you could, i bet it would change some perspectives lol. I can honestly say that i do more physical work in one day than most people do in a week at their jobs. I, like most people, had no idea how tough a job it really is, until i started doing it 4 1/2 years ago! We work no matter what the weather is; hot, cold, rain, snow, whatever. And we work until our job is done, without stopping.

Sorry for my little rant, just figured id shed some light on the wonderful world of sanitation .

As far as fireman riding the backstep goes, i am glad that it is no longer a practice! As stated, firetrucks are usually going at least 20-30mph while en-route to calls. They are going through intersections and braking hard and often. With that being said, how safe do you think it would be to not only ride under those conditions, but to try and gear-up? Read the book "Report from Engine Co. (cant remember the # lol)," by Dennis Smith. He was a fireman in the Bronx in its heyday. In the book, he mentions several guys who were either seriously injured or killed after being thrown off the back step of the rig. As someone else said, guys were also becomming targets for the neighborhood skells who would throw objects at them.

To sum it up...is riding the back step of a garbage truck safe? No. Is riding the back step of a firetruck safe? No. Are they two completely different creatures? Yes.

As firemen, be greatful that we dont ride the back steps anymore! Trust me, you're not missing much lol. Instead of worrying about what the garbagemen do, worry about yourselves and be greatful that the fire service has somewhat changed with the times! Always practice safe methods of doing your job, regardless of what it is!

For those of you who still ride the back step of fire trucks (or on top for that matter) at parades and other events....STOP!!!

Im done now, i promise. Thank you lol.

Well said 7 years with PORT CHESTER garbage before going over to F.D. 30,000 lbs a day. If you did a few years on garbage you will NEVER complain about your next job