FDNY TL "Hit And Run" Video

[FF402 133]

We've got to remember that there's cameras EVERYWHERE nowadays. I'm sure this happens numerous times within FDNY, and I for one feel that's the price you pay if you want to drive in Manhattan. I just hope the crew of that truck took the appropriate actions afterwards.

The obnoxious bystander filming, I hated his "commentary".

Anyways, watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F12_bHtaNfA

[Guest]

not good...

everyone knows fdny "scrapes" parked cars, but to have it on film isn't good

[xfirefighter484x 234]

It happens. Oh well. No one was hurt, and I am sure they didn't get away with it.

People forget they are called ACCIDENTS for a reason.

[IzzyEng4 427]

More than likely it was documented by the Capt / LT on the rig. And besides if not the Engine Company was still there. Was the TL going to another run or worker if known? You can't tell by this video.

[Guest]

More than likely it was documented by the Capt / LT on the rig. And besides if not the Engine Company was still there. Was teh TL going to another run or worker if known? You can't tell by this video.

do you know if this truely is a "hit and run?" what im asking is, is this considered leaving the scene of an accident??

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Poopie happens. There were still other apparatus on the scene so I'm sure it got reported. Its not that hard to find the apparatus obviously and I'm sure they were going to another alarm and it was probably something significant ro they would have stayed and asked for another apparatus on the assignment.

As far as the commentary I didn't find it obnoxious at all. I found it more comical and sarcastic.

[gpdexplorer 46]

Granted the video isn't long enough, but it almost looks like they're going stop once they clear the intersection.

[JM15 386]

I'm not an experience apparatus driver, but if you were on your way to a call and had a minor mishap like that are you required to stop by law? Or is it a judgement call on the driver or officer? I'm sure every department has SOP's regarding this.

[Guest]

I'm not an experience apparatus driver, but if you were on your way to a call and had a minor mishap like that are you required to stop by law? Or is it a judgement call on the driver or officer? I'm sure every department has SOP's regarding this.

thats the same thing i'm questioning. i don't think SOP's have anything to do w/ this, im almost sure its NYS law (but not 100% sure), you have to stop. and i believe the same goes for ambulance (among all othe types of vehicles).

Edited November 29, 2007 by vacguy

[JBE 328]

I will go out on a limb and say this is probably what happened. 20 Truck saw the incident, got 18 on the HT. They stopped, made the notification to the Manhattan dispatcher that they have been involved in a minor accident, requesting a battalion and PD. I am basing this on my experience in the offices. Notifications were made, Safety Battalion was also assigned. I also doubt the crew of 18 Truck didn't notice they hit something.

[IzzyEng4 427]

do you know if this truely is a "hit and run?" what im asking is, is this considered leaving the scene of an accident??

I was asking too, I just noticed my typos and how it was worded.

I trust JBE's reply since he knows the FDNY ops and how things go with the department.

[mfkap 0]

thats the same thing i'm questioning. i don't think SOP's have anything to do w/ this, im almost sure its NYS law (but not 100% sure), you have to stop. and i believe the same goes for ambulance (among all othe types of vehicles).

I am not sure about FD, but I was reading the policy statements from the DOH regarding another matter the other day, and the advisory says that ambulances are required to wait for PD to arrive, even if there is an unstable patient in the back. If you follow this or not, that is up to the EMT. It also does not specifically mention parked cars (see below). See http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/01-07.htm for details from the state DOH.

As for the Hit and Run aspect, it appears that since it was a parked car and the owner was not present (apparently) it is not technically a hit and run. See http://www.deadlyroads.com/laws/new-york-h...-run-laws.shtml which states that it must be reported to the PD "as soon as physically possible" which could mean by radio to the PD.

Edited November 29, 2007 by mfkap

[JM15 386]

So your saying that if you get involved with an accident with a parked car and you have CPR in progress the law states that you have to wait for PD to arrive? Is that correct or am I reading that wrong?

[PVFD233 68]

So your saying that if you get involved with an accident with a parked car and you have CPR in progress the law states that you have to wait for PD to arrive? Is that correct or am I reading that wrong?

Sadly enough I think thats the case.

[ny10570 745]

The state says you should wait, but it is up to the discretion of the person in charge of patient care. The biggest thing is ensuring there are no serious injuries and that the appropriate resources have been notified.

[JetPhoto 626]

So your saying that if you get involved with an accident with a parked car and you have CPR in progress the law states that you have to wait for PD to arrive? Is that correct or am I reading that wrong?

Tricky situation, are the occupants of the other car injured? This is obviously a "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" situation.

FYI - Any ambulance accident that involves injury must be reported to the DOH within 24 hours of the incident. Their is also a time frame for a PDAA w/an ambulance, I don't remember what that was though.

[mfkap 0]

So your saying that if you get involved with an accident with a parked car and you have CPR in progress the law states that you have to wait for PD to arrive? Is that correct or am I reading that wrong?

I am not sure about the parked car, but if you are doing CPR on someone and you get into a minor fender-bender, that NYS DOH policy statement says you have to stay. I don't really think you are going to find an EMT, myself included, that would do more than check to make sure the other driver is not seriously hurt. I tend to put human life before rules, though.

This raises other questions as well. What if you are driving to the hospital with an unstable patient in the back, and come upon an accident? If you stop or are flagged down, are you now committed to that scene? Can you leave that scene if there is someone there with a minor injury? I think according to NYS law, that is abandonment. Does this mean that you can't stop for a second to check if they need you to radio for help?

[JM15 386]

I think that all of these questions are judgment calls and you don't know what you would do until you are faced with the situation. If you were flagged down on the way to the hospital already with a patient. I would think that you are already committed to that patient. But if you have extra personell in the ambulance drop them off with a radio and a mega duffel so that they could start triaging patients until additional resources arrive.

[tbendick 27]

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/01-07.htm

If the patient being transported is unstable and the ambulance is not rendered inoperable, and there are no other unstable patients on the scene, then instruct the other vehicle operator to remain at the scene until police arrive and provide them with:

[eckyphats 0]

good questions alll around, what they hit was a parked car.. now I wonder if it different if you hit a parked car or came in contact with another moving vehicle.. if its the latter one then you are required to stop and atleast check for injuries

[eckyphats 0]

good questions alll around, what they hit was a parked car.. now I wonder if it different if you hit a parked car or came in contact with another moving vehicle.. if its the latter one then you are required to stop and atleast check for injuries

[bob803 1]

Maybe they didn't even feel it........

[ann11682 1]

Maybe they didn't even feel it........

Maybe the car was parked in a fire zone.

More power to them for removing the bumper from that fire zone... ha

[JCESU 20]

Given the size of the truck there is a good chance the driver didn't realize he made contact with the parked vehicle. That would be subject to interpretation of the video. If in fact the vehicle was illegally parked is of no consequence. The law stipulates that any vehicle in motion involved in an accident will remain at the scene and all atempts to preserve same will be taken. Regardless of SOP's of any agency. In a case like this I would have to imagine that the driver of the apparatus would be issued a summons for leaving the scene and let a judge decide the fate.

In most cases common sense must prevail. If you are involved in a minor MVA on the turnpike, in the left lane (passing lane), then I would move all vehicles as practical to the shoulder. In this situation, had the vehicle operator known he made contact, then he had an obligation to remain on scene. Especially in cases of Gov't owned vehicles. This way the owner of the struck vehicle cannot claim more damges than were made or personal injuries. And it also preserves the accident so it can be memorialized via photographs and diagrams for later claims and debate. I strongly suggest nothing be moved.

[Scottyk107 9]

It really looks like they are responding to another alarm. And yes they could have another unit take it but it looks like the areas units were tied up at the call they were leaving.

[Guest]

Not saying leaving is right, but did anyone look at the description? Its from the deutsche bank fire, they werent going anywhere.