"Heard it on the scanner" dispatches

[Remember585 815]

I have a question for everyone, both PD and FD.

If you are in your fire station, paid or volunteer, and you hear your PD responding to something that you should be dispatched to, such as outside smoke or an MVA - can you respond? I know of many times this has occurred around the area and I just want to know - is this kosher?

I guess the best way for me to put it - is it a LEGAL response?

HYPOTHETICAL: For example, I am in my firehouse and hear the PD going to a report of a car smoking, and my FD is dispatched by ourselves or 60 Control. I either tone it out or have 60 do it - is it illegal to do so?

I am not trying to stir anything up, I am merely asking because it's one of those things I always wondered and if it is ever asked of me I would like to give an answer. I hear it happen quite often and wonder what happens when the FD gets there, does PD flip out?

And worst yet, what happens if God forbid someone gets hurt going or the rig crashes?

Thanks guys!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Plenty of times I've been sitting at the firehouse when something like this goes out and we get geared up and get on the rig, maybe even pull it out onto the apron, but we're told in no uncertain terms not to respond without being toned. That being said, if, hypothetically of course, you maybe start driving up the street no lights/no siren, you could always say you were out on a work detail to get the head start on other companies. I emphasize the "with traffic" response when I say that, because it is completely unjustifyable if you go hot to a call you aren't assigned to.

Edited October 23, 2007 by SageVigiles

[Bababoosky 24]

I hate that, all dressed up with no where to go....

[trauma74 111]

That is when you pick up the phone and dial your FD emergency number and make an anonymous report of whatever you hear PD going to! LOL!

[IzzyEng4 427]

As a dispatcher / firefighter / EMT if you hear something on the scanner and start heading to the call before you are dispatched then yes it is a problem, illegal no but a whole liability issue. There is nothing wrong with sliding to the firehouse (no lights), pulling the truck out onto the apron and assembling a crew but to start responding because of what you heard over the scanner and god something happens awful to you as you area responding before you are called out then that ugly liability issue starts to come out and play.

Take for example this, a few years back I remember hearing about a call where the members of a particular fire company heard on the scanner a call they should have been dispatched too on the police band. They mounted up and went lights and sirens, and during their response the truck got into a mva, minor thankfully and no injuries. Come to find out there was no actual call for this town but what the members of this company heard was a radio skip from another town's police dept with a similar street name and address. Now what didn't they do, check to see with their dispatch center to see if there was a call. Needless to say the driver of the truck was issued a summons and subsequently suspended as was the officer of the company. The department was sued by the driver of the car the firetruck hit and it was a whole mess.

In the scenario you stated, what if the pd arrived on scene and the car was just overheating and your going BTTW? If you think that there might be something significant and there is a delay in dispatch then heading towards the firehouse with traffic, nice and smooth would be ok.

The one thing everyone hates is a self-dispatcher to a call.

[Guest]

this is an ems standpoint... i've never don'e this with the FD

if i hear PD going to an MVA w/ injuries or medical call, we'll hop in the rig and start in the direction (no lights or siren). when the tones go out, we call responding and state our location.

but this is only is someones paying attention to the scanner

[HFD750 6]

AHH.... I hear this soooooo many times my ears hurt... PD going to smoke in the house"check and advise". I've called 60-control plenty of times when the cops go out on calls that I feel the fire department should be at. 2am PD going to an outside odor of gas then gets on the radio to advise HQ the odor is strong and extends the entire block,HQ advises con-ed gas notified. I get up and call 60-control to dispatch 1 engine to the scene. It's great when you get there and the cops want to know who called and I reply "I did". Not to make it a cop vs firemen thing, I'm sure it happens all over to everyone. But c'mon wires down and burning??? Where is the FD?

[steve shryock 0]

Plenty of times I've been sitting at the firehouse when something like this goes out and we get geared up and get on the rig, maybe even pull it out onto the apron, but we're told in no uncertain terms not to respond without being toned. That being said, if, hypothetically of course, you maybe start driving up the street no lights/no siren, you could always say you were out on a work detail to get the head start on other companies. I emphasize the "with traffic" response when I say that, because it is completely unjustifyable if you go hot to a call you aren't assigned to.

I cannot disagree with you.

If you do respond with POV/gear/apparatus without being dispatched aren't you freelancing?

[helicopper 1,050]

I have a question for everyone, both PD and FD.

If you are in your fire station, paid or volunteer, and you hear your PD responding to something that you should be dispatched to, such as outside smoke or an MVA - can you respond? I know of many times this has occurred around the area and I just want to know - is this kosher?

I guess the best way for me to put it - is it a LEGAL response?

HYPOTHETICAL: For example, I am in my firehouse and hear the PD going to a report of a car smoking, and my FD is dispatched by ourselves or 60 Control. I either tone it out or have 60 do it - is it illegal to do so?

I am not trying to stir anything up, I am merely asking because it's one of those things I always wondered and if it is ever asked of me I would like to give an answer. I hear it happen quite often and wonder what happens when the FD gets there, does PD flip out?

And worst yet, what happens if God forbid someone gets hurt going or the rig crashes?

Thanks guys!

First question - what are your agency's SOP's?

Second question - do you ever pick up the phone and call the PD to inquire about the call? I don't understand the whole my call-your call nonsense that still exists today. Can't we all just get along???

My perspective - no dispatch or official request and an emergency response (lights and siren) = potential liability.

AHH.... I hear this soooooo many times my ears hurt... PD going to smoke in the house"check and advise". I've called 60-control plenty of times when the cops go out on calls that I feel the fire department should be at. 2am PD going to an outside odor of gas then gets on the radio to advise HQ the odor is strong and extends the entire block,HQ advises con-ed gas notified. I get up and call 60-control to dispatch 1 engine to the scene. It's great when you get there and the cops want to know who called and I reply "I did". Not to make it a cop vs firemen thing, I'm sure it happens all over to everyone. But c'mon wires down and burning??? Where is the FD?

Not to stir the proverbial pot but what will you do for wires down and burning until Con Ed gets there to de-energize them? If the cops want to babysit down wires until Con Ed shows up, that's their problem. You can keep watching TV and enjoying the heat/AC (pick your season) until someone decides to call for you.

Outside odors of gas? Genuine question - not being wise for a change - what are you going to do about it? Isn't that properly a Con Ed job?

Finally, smoke in the house - yeah, the cops have to be nuts not to dispatch the FD right off. HFD, you've posted about this problem before so I assume it is a persistent one... Haven't your commissioners or the chief met with the Chief or Town Board or somebody to try to resolve it? If they're put on notice, they're assuming all the liability so if one of those million dollar mansions goes up in smoke because they wanted to "check and advise" it's all on them!

[ny10570 745]

I cannot disagree with you.

If you do respond with POV/gear/apparatus without being dispatched aren't you freelancing?

Excellent point, but I don't believe so as long as you are doing like was originally posted and responding with traffic and not leaving your primary area of response. In freelancing is it is outside of what is expected of you to be doing. As long as you follow the protocols required to go out driver training, for street familiarization, etc then it would make no difference. To just show up on scene and begin operating would be equivalent to freelancing as you would now be doing something outside what is expected. Probably the best idea is to adivse dispatch of a report of a "______" at "______" and that you are responding to investigate or to see if you are needed. In EMS this is an ongoing issue where we have my favorite form of job notification..."flagged for the ______"

[HFD750 6]

Not to stir the proverbial pot but what will you do for wires down and burning until Con Ed gets there to de-energize them? If the cops want to babysit down wires until Con Ed shows up, that's their problem. You can keep watching TV and enjoying the heat/AC (pick your season) until someone decides to call for you.

Outside odors of gas? Genuine question - not being wise for a change - what are you going to do about it? Isn't that properly a Con Ed job?

Finally, smoke in the house - yeah, the cops have to be nuts not to dispatch the FD right off. HFD, you've posted about this problem before so I assume it is a persistent one... Haven't your commissioners or the chief met with the Chief or Town Board or somebody to try to resolve it? If they're put on notice, they're assuming all the liability so if one of those million dollar mansions goes up in smoke because they wanted to "check and advise" it's all on them!

Ok lets see if I can answer some of these. I see where your coming from and you make some good points.

Outside odors of gas... Yes your right Con-ed job, But using one of my calls as an example. Outside odor turned into 3 hours of checking numerous houses and buldings. The gas was migrating into the sewers and getting into some houses, Also was migrating into another town which then had to be notified turned into a big mess.

Wires down and burning... Are they burning towards anything? near anything? If the cops have all the bases covered then great. But I've seen some far out things and just glad no one has been injured or killed. Primary wires down,just this afternoon the patrol car is about 2 feet away and the officer is outside the car talking to the home owner, was the scene safe? No. Con-ed arrived and said the wires were live.

Look,like I said I don't want to battle cop vs fire. You have valid points, and I respect your opinions. I guess most of this stems from a long list of problems we have with our police department,and I'm not afraid to say it but talk to the town board or the chief?? Done that since I've been chief twice so far... And you see where I'm at. But I won't give up. I'm NOT going to wait until someone gets hurt.

Edited October 24, 2007 by HFD750

[Guest]

Ive been at the fire house a couple of times when a run comes over PD or even EMS, and anywhere from 5+ minutes later, it comes over the computer.

[firemoose827 324]

Excellent point, but I don't believe so as long as you are doing like was originally posted and responding with traffic and not leaving your primary area of response. In freelancing is it is outside of what is expected of you to be doing. As long as you follow the protocols required to go out driver training, for street familiarization, etc then it would make no difference. To just show up on scene and begin operating would be equivalent to freelancing as you would now be doing something outside what is expected. Probably the best idea is to adivse dispatch of a report of a "______" at "______" and that you are responding to investigate or to see if you are needed. In EMS this is an ongoing issue where we have my favorite form of job notification..."flagged for the ______"

Just a little help with the definition of "Freelancer" for you. Its when you do something you weren't told by an officer to do. I.E- responding to a call the PD were dispatched to without actually being toned out or directed by an officer to do so. Another example- arriving on scene of a working structure and deciding to vent the windows...without checking to see if the interior crew was in place and making an attack first. That is freelancing, the art of doing whatever you want without the proper authority to do so.

Just trying to help, hope youre not mad. Have a great day.

Moose

[Remember585 815]

First question - what are your agency's SOP's?

I'm not sure which angle you are going with this Chris....can you elaborate?

Second question - do you ever pick up the phone and call the PD to inquire about the call? I don't understand the whole my call-your call nonsense that still exists today. Can't we all just get along???

I didn't make the post based on things here - just a generic question for everyone. I have been a part of incidents like this a few times whether as a FD member, VAC member, Dispatcher, etc. I am merely trying to get a real answer for this should, for some reason, it happens in my jurisdiction and I happen to be the IC, I want to know what foothold I have in case there are any issues.

My perspective - no dispatch or official request and an emergency response (lights and siren) = potential liability.

Not to stir the proverbial pot but what will you do for wires down and burning until Con Ed gets there to de-energize them? If the cops want to babysit down wires until Con Ed shows up, that's their problem. You can keep watching TV and enjoying the heat/AC (pick your season) until someone decides to call for you.

If PD wants to go, let them. Everyone wants to be dispatched to these calls but as soon as a PD unit arrives offering to secure the scene, it's rare that offer is declined, right? If PD responds and determines that the hazard is something serious then you can call us. Let's face it, in many cases, if not most, we the FD will arrive, ask for the utility company, rope off the area and leave....it isn't rocket science.

Outside odors of gas? Genuine question - not being wise for a change - what are you going to do about it? Isn't that properly a Con Ed job?

Con Edison themselves state that FD should be at any suspected gas leak, if you don't believe me ask them. We have hosted several classes over the years where Con Ed comes and tells us how they want us, FD, to respond and handle gas calls. Can PD decipher an odor of gas as an LPG or perhaps only Mercaptin? FD has spent thousands of dollars on metering equipment to determine what hazard, if any, there really is. I know of two spots in our own Village where there is a constant odor of what many believe is gas, but it is only Mercaptin. FD really needs to go to gas investigations to make sure that the explosive ranges aren't in jeopardy, that there isn't a major leak in the vicinity and to create a perimeter as dictated by the hazard. These calls are a prime example of incident types where we (FD) and them (PD) need to work together for the best interest of our public's safety.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Wires down and burning....by all means close the road and use your resources to sit for extended periods of time.

Gas leak...hurry up and wait. This should be a non-emergency response for the FD. Yes we need to be there and HFD very poignantly pointed as to why...but there is no reason to respond lights and sirens for something you are going to have to sit on until the utlitiy company gets there or to assist them as needed.

As far as self dispatching...have I've gotten frustrated at it. Absolutely. But its not my job to "police" the airwaves..(sorry no pun intended). They don't call, they don't call. That is why every municipality/town, etc. should have at least quarterly meetings between all emergency services with government representation so they know what is going on in their city/town/village.

[robert benz 344]

Wires down and burning....by all means close the road and use your resources to sit for extended periods of time.

Gas leak...hurry up and wait. This should be a non-emergency response for the FD. Yes we need to be there and HFD very poignantly pointed as to why...but there is no reason to respond lights and sirens for something you are going to have to sit on until the utlitiy company gets there or to assist them as needed.

As far as self dispatching...have I've gotten frustrated at it. Absolutely. But its not my job to "police" the airwaves..(sorry no pun intended). They don't call, they don't call. That is why every municipality/town, etc. should have at least quarterly meetings between all emergency services with government representation so they know what is going on in their city/town/village.

got to disagree with you on the gas call, you have no idea how serious a gas leak it is until you are on scene. this could be as true an emergency as any call we go on, from attempted suicides, attempted murder, plumbers doin work "on the fly", vehicles into buildings, gasoline service station fill up with product seeping into adjacent multiple dwelling strong oder of "gas" I could go on and on

[Monty 35]

It's interesting, we were just talking about this the other day. We'd look to our SOP's but no-one can find them . We decided we could go 'driver training' in the area and see if there is anything to see - as others have stated, with the traffic.

Ancedotally, my current situation with PD dispatching, there can be quite a lag. In my previous department, there was a dedicated Communications Center and if we heard something by the time we got to the Firehouse (no responding to the scene there), and geared up, we'd be dispatched anyway.

The dedicated guys would go to the firehouse if we heard somehting good and get dressed up for the expected mutual aid call. We'd never self-dispatch, but we'd be on the radio responding as soon as the dispatcher finished.

[redmack 0]

Two incidents that have happened, and let it be noted I am also a volunteer ff.

1. Volunteer FF drives by a MVA w/ PD on scene. The volunteer takes it upon himself to determine that FD is needed because of his visual observation of the scene. This volunteer proceeds to his FD station and advises fire control to dispatch FD for an MVA w/ what I remember as either extrication or injuries at the location he observed the PD out on. FD responds and when it is determined that the request for FD response was made by a passing FF, PD flips the lid. There was no need for FD response, and is actually caused a large amount of traffic congestion due to fd presence. This FD is not ems.

2. Volunteer FF's attempted to request their chief to question pd over an MVA. FF reported that he heard on the pd scanner the night before what sounded like a bad MVA. FF further reported that when he drove by the following day he observed speedy dry material in the area of the MVA. The FF's argument was that the PD did not do their job properly by not having them respond for a fluid spill. It was explained to the requesting members that this is what creates bad relationships in emergency services when there members within monday morning quarter backing each other!

It should be noted that it is the responsibility of a tow truck operator at the scene of an MVA to remove all debris from the roadway. Vehicle and Traffic Law 1219.C

This is not a bashing post, but a mere example how we tend to be are own worst enemies when it comes to judging other emergency service agencies. All Departments are professional and knowledgable, and if they need each other let the person on scene or supervisor make the request, NOT the person listening to a scanner sitting on their couch!

[Oswegowind 17]

I have to say, I have done the "heard it on the scanner" dispatch. Both as a dispatcher and as a field member. At my old job, there were times when the 911 center "forgot" to call the EMS provider with the job, so I simply did a little extra and got the info off the scanner and dispatched the unit where it was needed. In this sense, at least they got the help they needed. In the field, I "buffed" my share of jobs, in fact my share, your share, your best friend's share, etc. I guess we went a little overboard, however, we never did respond "Code 3" unless we had a very good reason, such as Officer Down, FF trapped or injured! There were a number of jobs we showed up on, just to show up in case we were needed, however we stayed in service until we were needed, and if the need arose we were already there, cutting down on the precious response time by safely making out way over...It is a two way street, however, as a dispatcher I can say I don't get annoyed with people going on their own, just like to know that you are going so I know where to find you. I think it is worse when you try to send someone somewhere and they are tied up on a job you didn't know the "buffed"...........

[helicopper 1,050]

I'm not sure which angle you are going with this Chris....can you elaborate?

Sure, I'll elaborate... Does your agency have a policy that states who can assign department resources or remove them from quarters? Can Joe FF come to the station, jump in the apparatus, and take it out without a dispatch, without an officers approval, etc.? Are there any minimum crew requirements for apparatus to roll? I ask this for a few reasons. If the job is properly dispatched after Joe FF has taken the apparatus out of the station and nobody knows it, where will everyone else respond? To the empty bay in the firehouse?

If an officer needs to approve the movement of apparatus and he/she approves the driver training or whatever you want to call it then it is an approved department operation. If you happen to be closer to the job when the tones do go off, more power to you.

Let's face it, in many cases, if not most, we the FD will arrive, ask for the utility company, rope off the area and leave....it isn't rocket science.

That was my point - HFD and some others bring up really good points about responses and it highlights the fact that we can't approach everything with a cookie-cutter response. Maybe it is necessary to respond, maybe it isn't - depends on the situation.

Con Edison themselves state that FD should be at any suspected gas leak, if you don't believe me ask them. We have hosted several classes over the years where Con Ed comes and tells us how they want us, FD, to respond and handle gas calls. Can PD decipher an odor of gas as an LPG or perhaps only Mercaptin? FD has spent thousands of dollars on metering equipment to determine what hazard, if any, there really is. I know of two spots in our own Village where there is a constant odor of what many believe is gas, but it is only Mercaptin. FD really needs to go to gas investigations to make sure that the explosive ranges aren't in jeopardy, that there isn't a major leak in the vicinity and to create a perimeter as dictated by the hazard. These calls are a prime example of incident types where we (FD) and them (PD) need to work together for the best interest of our public's safety.

Alright, see there's the value of these discussions. No need for anyone to get crazy and defensive (or offensive) and wind up having the thread closed because egos and attitudes prevail. If Con Ed says they want the FD at gas leaks, that's all you need to convince me. Write it into your dispatch guidelines and if the dispatch agency (PD, FD, other) doesn't comply with the policy, deal with that.

Bottom line, these aren't my calls or your calls - they're public service calls and we should all be able to work in the same sandbox without problems. We all have jobs to do and should try to make each other's easier by not fighting about it.

As far as self dispatching...have I've gotten frustrated at it. Absolutely. But its not my job to "police" the airwaves..(sorry no pun intended). They don't call, they don't call. That is why every municipality/town, etc. should have at least quarterly meetings between all emergency services with government representation so they know what is going on in their city/town/village.

That's my thought too. Don't we all have enough to do without seeking out MORE?

Meetings with the emergency services and politicos is a great idea, too!

got to disagree with you on the gas call, you have no idea how serious a gas leak it is until you are on scene. this could be as true an emergency as any call we go on, from attempted suicides, attempted murder, plumbers doin work "on the fly", vehicles into buildings, gasoline service station fill up with product seeping into adjacent multiple dwelling strong oder of "gas" I could go on and on

I see your point but happen to agree with ALS. Even if it is one of the scenarios you describe, will the 1-2 minute difference in response times actually make a significant difference?

[helicopper 1,050]

Just a little help with the definition of "Freelancer" for you. Its when you do something you weren't told by an officer to do. I.E- responding to a call the PD were dispatched to without actually being toned out or directed by an officer to do so. Another example- arriving on scene of a working structure and deciding to vent the windows...without checking to see if the interior crew was in place and making an attack first. That is freelancing, the art of doing whatever you want without the proper authority to do so.

Just trying to help, hope youre not mad. Have a great day.

Moose

Great definition!

[ex-commish 490]

I believe if you responded without authorization ( toned out, officers order) and you had an accident while responding you may have issues with being covered. IMHO it is better to wait untill dispatched.

[Remember585 815]

Sure, I'll elaborate... Does your agency have a policy that states who can assign department resources or remove them from quarters? Can Joe FF come to the station, jump in the apparatus, and take it out without a dispatch, without an officers approval, etc.? Are there any minimum crew requirements for apparatus to roll? I ask this for a few reasons. If the job is properly dispatched after Joe FF has taken the apparatus out of the station and nobody knows it, where will everyone else respond? To the empty bay in the firehouse?

If an officer needs to approve the movement of apparatus and he/she approves the driver training or whatever you want to call it then it is an approved department operation. If you happen to be closer to the job when the tones do go off, more power to you.

Ahhh, now I got ya! Our Department rules state that we only respond to calls we are dispatched to or at the request of an Officer / IC. Apparatus must have a minimum of a driver and two firefighters to respond, with some exceptions. Personnel can go to the scene or to the apparatus, most members go directly to station unless the scene is on their way. We've had plenty of times when we will be out Driver Training and take in a fire or EMS call that isn't assigned to us. Usually it is at the request of other responding units or if the Officer on the apparatus feels it is warranted. One example I can think of off the top of my head - I was driver training someone when I was Captain two years ago, the PD dispatched a Minor Alarm for a chimney fire on the street we were crossing....so obviously we took it.

I agree with you too Chris, we should all get along but we also know attitudes and egos generally screw things up from time to time.

[Goose 188]

I think the answer is pretty simple. Never buff calls you happen to hear on the Police/Fire/EMS bands. Even this "at the request of an officer" bothers me. What the hell is that? If someone wants you or a specific truck have them relay through the dispatchers. The bottom line is accountability, and having things put through the CAD/computer makes it far easier to keep track of everything.

Obviously, if your flagged at an incident or come upon one absolutely do your thing, but remember to have dispatch generate a call in the computer for it. The only other instance of "self dispatching" i find acceptable is probably only applicable in the EMS/PD (maybe?) world - IE: a unit gets dispatched to a job and you happen to be getting a soda at the local store down the street from that location, you click dispatch and ask them if they want u to handle as your closer.

I know there are those out there that are extra anxious to hop on the trucks and give the lights a good workout but god gave us a brain for a purpose.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Goose

[Guest stephentyler20]

My take, from an EMS perspective... where I work, we're dispatched by the PD on the PD frequency, along WITH the PD. So if I'm listening (we're required to be listening all the time), and I hear something medical, one of two things happens... 1) The PD dispatcher will get us going right away (this is the most common route, they're usually good about it), 2) we'll "advise" the gpd dispatcher that we're heading over that way. The latter is not very common, but happens in circumstances where the PD is too busy dealing with their stuff to send us directly... example, bizarre car accident that requires numerous PD units, and with confirmed injuries or medical situation. Nothing wrong with "hey you forgot us, but we heard it so we're on the way!"... they'll tell us if they don't want us going or specifically what to do.

In my other jobs, where we're not dispatched by PD... I'm definitely a proponent of sneak over that way if you hear something (hell, even show up on scene and shout "need us?"), but the full response probably isn't going to be smart. Not our problem if someone isn't notifying the proper agencies...

[helicopper 1,050]

Two incidents that have happened, and let it be noted I am also a volunteer ff.

1. Volunteer FF drives by a MVA w/ PD on scene. The volunteer takes it upon himself to determine that FD is needed because of his visual observation of the scene. This volunteer proceeds to his FD station and advises fire control to dispatch FD for an MVA w/ what I remember as either extrication or injuries at the location he observed the PD out on. FD responds and when it is determined that the request for FD response was made by a passing FF, PD flips the lid. There was no need for FD response, and is actually caused a large amount of traffic congestion due to fd presence. This FD is not ems.

2. Volunteer FF's attempted to request their chief to question pd over an MVA. FF reported that he heard on the pd scanner the night before what sounded like a bad MVA. FF further reported that when he drove by the following day he observed speedy dry material in the area of the MVA. The FF's argument was that the PD did not do their job properly by not having them respond for a fluid spill. It was explained to the requesting members that this is what creates bad relationships in emergency services when there members within monday morning quarter backing each other!

It should be noted that it is the responsibility of a tow truck operator at the scene of an MVA to remove all debris from the roadway. Vehicle and Traffic Law 1219.C

This is not a bashing post, but a mere example how we tend to be are own worst enemies when it comes to judging other emergency service agencies. All Departments are professional and knowledgable, and if they need each other let the person on scene or supervisor make the request, NOT the person listening to a scanner sitting on their couch!

Two good examples of what NOT to do. In the first instance, the FF should have stopped, identified himself to the PD, and asked if assistance was needed. Had he bothered to do that he would have learned that the services of his department were not required. Let's face it, cars are designed to crumble and they're all made of recycled dixie cups so it doesn't take much to make one look like an accordian after running through a blender. The outward appearance of the vehicle tells little about injuries or the need for extrication. Even EMS protocols are starting to get away from vehicle damage as an indicator of trauma. Failing that, he could have at least called his chief rather than reporting the incident to dispatch. The Chief could have made a more informed decision about his/her department's response.

In the second case, the scanner jockey couldn't tell anything about the nature of the accident from the radio and the presence of speedy-dry doesn't necessarily mean the FD was warranted. As REDMACK said, tow operators are required to clean up the mess. Could have been anti-freeze and windshield washer fluid - not fuel. Who knows? You weren't called, get over it!

I'm sure we'll never know but I'd be interested to hear what the age and experience was of the two in these instances.

Goose, you're also correct - any response should be coordinated through the dispatch center so they know the status of all resources.

[Remember585 815]

If an Officer is out with the rig and says, "Let's take that call in," that's thier choice, problem is their's. Notify dispatch you are going, end of story.

The main point I am driving at is the scanner issue, and I appreciate all of the feedback, thanks!