Interesting Take on FDNY*EMS

[Goose 188]

I was sent a link to this website through an email. I have no idea who wrote this (apparently a former member of NYC*EMS and now member of FDNY*EMS) or how accurate any of the accounts or data actually are/is. After reading through the website, i think some interesting points and recommendations are made. It should be known that this website dose contain controversial and offensive positions/assertions about the FDNY. On a personal note, i am not employed by the FDNY or a participating hospital and thus have no agenda to push. Seeing as this is a website of opinions and issues, i thought i would be interesting to get everyone's opinion on some of the more salient issues brought up.

http://hometown.aol.com/fdemswebsite1/index.html

Did Rudy really cut funding from HHC to undermine NYC*EMS? If true, this is extremely disturbing.

Discuss away!

Edited October 17, 2007 by Goose

[x635 4,066]

This site has been around for a long time. It's very interesting and informative. Personally, between that website and what I hear from FDNY friends, I think EMS would have been better off it's own seperate entity. It seems like it is FDNY*EMS in name only, IMHO. NYC has a Police, Fire, and Sanitation department, so why not EMS?

I think the original concept when Guliani merged FDNY and H&H EMS in 1996, was to be more like an LA City or California type Fire/EMS intergrated system...but that never panned out. It's funny, you would never think of merging PD with Sanitation, etc, so why is EMS always lowly?

Nonetheless, that site is an interesting way to express frusteration.

[Goose 188]

This site has been around for a long time. It's very interesting and informative. Personally, between that website and what I hear from FDNY friends, I think EMS would have been better off it's own seperate entity. It seems like it is FDNY*EMS in name only, IMHO. NYC has a Police, Fire, and Sanitation department, so why not EMS?

I think the original concept when Guliani merged FDNY and H&H EMS in 1996, was to be more like an LA City or California type Fire/EMS intergrated system...but that never panned out. It's funny, you would never think of merging PD with Sanitation, etc, so why is EMS always lowly?

Nonetheless, that site is an interesting way to express frusteration.

Thanks for the info Seth. I figured it had been around for a while but some of the latter pages do seem to have been updated in recent months/years(?). The interesting thing is, dont many of the Cali FDs run ALS Engine Companies? If im not mistaken, thats part of the strategic plan for the FDNY.

[ny10570 745]

Let me start by saying I'm a post merger employee and everything I know from the days of green and white are anecdotal or published information, not experience. If you take a serious look at NYC EMS before the merger all of the great things about EMS are either nostalgic or not good for the general public. Freedom from supervision. The ability to bail on BS assignments to go get the shot or trauma. Nights spent down on the point getting high and getting blown. Talk to cops and firefighters who worked back then and they all have story after story of having to wait an insanely long time for a bus. By the mid 90s about half of the ambulance tours were covered by voluntary hospitals. HHC was not able to keep up with the growth of EMS in the city. Wether the city should have given HHC more money or HHC should have improved its billing was the main contention. The city settled that by handing EMS over to fire who intended to turn EMS into a money making venture. While EMS is still far from profitable, improvements in billing and record keeping have made allowed EMS to expand and continue to cost less.

The biggest problem is the Comissioner and Mayor promised EMS the moon and delivered NOTHING. Over time things slowly changed and in the last few years the change has begun to take off. FDNY is now running about 2/3's of all ambulance tours with more to come. The thing holding back expansion is a lack of employees. Training and equipment are improving. The newest ambulance contract will deliver 170 buses including a new larger box for all of the rescue and haztac units. Treaded stair chairs are coming soon. New protocols and tools are being explored. New training is available. The ALS engines will never happen. The first and only time EMS and Suppression unions got together was to fight ALS engines. Changes to the dispatch system will eliminate CFR companies when a BLS is closer on ALS/CFR assignments. The city is finally building some of the EMS stations that were promissed in 96. The money still blows but with uniform status this time around we will at least get a contract that is proportional to Fire and PD. How long and what it will take to get the salary disparity corrected is just a guess.

There is a lot more command and control some of which is hindering patient care. However it is not nearly as significant as the improvements made. City wide response times to life threatening emergencies is down to 6:30 and all arrests is at 5:13. All emergencies 8:17. CFR's are arriving in 4:14. In 1998 the earliest I have available the times were at 7:25, 5:39, and 8:36. By comparison suppression was at 4:16. They've been doing their job since the beginning. EMS is slowly catching up.

FDNY*EMS provides a service to the residents, cops and fire fighters that is far superior to what NYC*EMS was able to provide. Is that at the expense of its employees? Yeah it was. Could NYC*EMS have reached this level, I doubt it.

Now for the sales pitch. If you are an EMT and looking to make a career at EMS give FDNY a serious look. Right now they are hiring at a rate that is just barely above attrition and promotion. They are constantly looking for more people. As good as Marty and the rest of the guys at WCC did, my 3 months in the EMS academy taught much more than original cert, time as a volley, and doing transport. There is also no place that will show you more of everything than working in NYC. Yonkers and the Vern are close but they still can't compete (my last partner did her time with Empress before coming south). If you want to be medic, why get jerked around for 3 years by a program that you have to arrange your job and life around when you can get paid to bust your butt for 9 months after only a year with the dept. I'm in the beginning of the program now and while its effectively the end of my social life for 9 months its the best deal going.

[Goose 188]

I've considered working for FDNY*EMS, but those privates always look allot sweeter. $24/hr as an EMT, ill take that any day of the week.

[ny10570 745]

Yeah, the FDNY hourly sucks at $14 for the first year; but the pension, LODI benefits, health insurance, and job security are a big bonus. I'll be honest I don't really know much about the compensation packages offered by the voluntaries, but I do know a few employee's of St. Vincents and Cabrini who are pissed and out of a job. If I get hurt at work I don't have to do deal with the comp board. I've been there and I am grateful I'll never have to go through it again.

Something I forgot earlier is the possibility of 12 hour tours coming. That mens every other weekend off, built in over time, and 16(?) fewer appearances each year. From what I understand both sides want 12 hour tours, its just a matter of the details and convincing the Labor Relations Board that its a good idea. Why thats an issue is beyond me.

Edited October 17, 2007 by ny10570

[Goose 188]

The benefits are compelling and so is the 12 hour tour, however can't afford to live for 14/hr in Westchester. Simply doesn't cut it. If they were to finalize 12 hour tours and bump that starting salary closer to 20 then i would more inclined to look there than OLM or another private. Likewise, the attitude from Fire towards EMS is pretty disturbing and turns me off.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Goose

[Guest partyrock]

Much like the PD/FD battles its more hype than reality. Most of the tension comes from brothers who just want to be done and away from the BS calls. When its legit you won't find crews that half-a** it, not to say some guys aren't going to b****.

[tbendick 27]

Now I have been out of EMS for a bit so anyone who is current please correct me.

There are no meal or bathroom breaks in EMS.

Units can take a 10-100 during the tour they just cant abuse it.

Unlike almost every other EMS service in the country FDNY EMS units get the honor of having to sit in the ambulance on a street corner for 8-16 hours a day. It's like being in a prison without the benefits of a library, and a weight room. It's nice to see FDNY cares about the EMS workers' health and welfare. Studies show that sitting in a running ambulance for long periods of time is directly linked to back problems, and GI disorders.

It was the same way in HHC they tried changing somethings and a lot of people complained. I worked with many guys who like this, don't know why but they didn't want to sit in stations..

We have ambulances and command cars that are mobile death traps. They are supposed to replace the ambulances every 5 years but the truth is most of the fleet is older than that.

FDNY does keep on top of things. I will say that there were many death traps around back in 99 when I was working EMS. One of the other problems was the screw up with the 2000 contract for 400 new ambulances. Take a look around most of the units have good upto date rigs.

People in NYC are concerned with some of the diesel MTA buses driving down their street leaving a trail of soot and smoke. What they should take a look at are the 300 diesel EMS trucks that are parked on street corners all over the city with the engines running. Because we don't have a station to go to we have to sit on busy street corners across the city spewing diesel fumes into the air 24 hours a day seven days a week. If EMS trucks were stationed at the fire houses the savings on fuel costs alone would be Approx. $7,500 dollars per day or over 3 million dollars per year. BTW medical studies link diesel fumes with high rates of cancer and respiratory ailments. Is FDNY looking into any of this? No

Here is one that I agree with...

So what my point is, take everything with a grain of salt. If you are interested in working for FDNY EMS talk to a few people and get there take.

[ny10570 745]

There are no meal or bathroom breaks in EMS.

Units can take a 10-100 during the tour they just cant abuse it.

Never seen a ff able to pass on a BS job so he can finish his meal, but unless the dispatcher gives an exciting job type crews will usually refuse the job. Technically the 10-100 cannot be used for food, but as you know so long as you don't abuse it they let you slide with it.

It was the same way in HHC they tried changing somethings and a lot of people complained. I worked with many guys who like this, don't know why but they didn't want to sit in stations..

People in NYC are concerned with some of the diesel MTA buses driving down their street leaving a trail of soot and smoke. What they should take a look at are the 300 diesel EMS trucks that are parked on street corners all over the city with the engines running. Because we don't have a station to go to we have to sit on busy street corners across the city spewing diesel fumes into the air 24 hours a day seven days a week. If EMS trucks were stationed at the fire houses the savings on fuel costs alone would be Approx. $7,500 dollars per day or over 3 million dollars per year. BTW medical studies link diesel fumes with high rates of cancer and respiratory ailments. Is FDNY looking into any of this? No

Here is one that I agree with...

Back then it equaled less freedom and more supervision. Now that we're being watched 24/7 people want back out of the bus.

Nothing would make me happier than being able to turn out of a firehouse. Run a block heater and box climate control off a plug so the bus can be left outside in houses without the space and you'd be good to go. Except that the nature of the job has you out of the house too often for guys to develop the feeling of ownership of their facility that ff's have. The best run EMS stations are that way thanks to the minority who care. That and you need your supervisor to be an EMS supervisor. Having them chase units at every FH in the battalion would be tough. What I would like to see is every battalion get a station. From there maybe something can be done with rotating units out of the station to cover areas as jobs come in. Then at least when its slow there is some down time.

[ems-buff 81]

I've considered working for FDNY*EMS, but those privates always look allot sweeter. $24/hr as an EMT, ill take that any day of the week.

What privates are you looking at...... Share the info PLEASE!!!!

[Goose 188]

It was a ballpark number, but i do know EMTs that make that rate working for privates. Just gotta research man, all the information is out there Either way it beats the roughly 10 dollar salary i'm making now.

[ems-buff 81]

It was a ballpark number, but i do know EMTs that make that rate working for privates. Just gotta research man, all the information is out there Either way it beats the roughly 10 dollar salary i'm making now.

I got you beat by two dollars yeh for me!!! a whole two dollars lol j/k bro.

[Danger 160]

Maybe it was just a bad taste from the commercial I worked for, but I don't think I could work EMS again anywhere, especially NYC even if we got paid the same as the fire side.

[Goose 188]

Maybe it was just a bad taste from the commercial I worked for, but I don't think I could work EMS again anywhere, especially NYC even if we got paid the same as the fire side.

Sucks...i guess?

[ny10570 745]

Maybe it was just a bad taste from the commercial I worked for, but I don't think I could work EMS again anywhere, especially NYC even if we got paid the same as the fire side.

You can't compare commercial to working NYC 911. Either for FDNY or a Voluntary and its an entirely different job. Work an average bus and after a year you will have used most your protocols, seen just about everything you thought you could see, and still have more surprises coming. What about transport ruined EMS for you?

[Goose 188]

You can't compare commercial to working NYC 911. Either for FDNY or a Voluntary and its an entirely different job. Work an average bus and after a year you will have used most your protocols, seen just about everything you thought you could see, and still have more surprises coming. What about transport ruined EMS for you?

I wouldn't go that far. There are plenty of emergencies to go around and lots to learn everywhere. I've heard plenty of people who have spent significant time in the city come up north and admit they have never seen some of the things that occur up here, most notably the trauma. As far as transports, lets not write them off. There is a lot to be learned on your average transport. While they surely aren't adrenaline pumping nor do they make the papers, you can learn a lot of medications, medical conditions and treatment modalities at the hospital level. I'm not quite sure what what was expected out of working EMS. Low pay, long hours, high risk and little appreciation is and has been part of the deal for decades. I guess I'm a bit confused as to the exact point of the comment altogether.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Goose

[JCESU 20]

I agree with allot of what Seth had stated. For those Medics/EMT's that are career oriented slaries in the $20-$26 per hr. range are offered if you are willing to swim across the river to UMDNJ and The Jersey City Medical Center. They are both extremely busy agencies and are what I would consider top shelf in my experiences in handling jobs with them. The benefits are also pretty fair as well. The JCMC works 12's but I am not exactly sure about University in Newark. Both of them are definitely worth checking out and are always recruiting.

Rick

Yeah, the FDNY hourly sucks at $14 for the first year; but the pension, LODI benefits, health insurance, and job security are a big bonus. I'll be honest I don't really know much about the compensation packages offered by the voluntaries, but I do know a few employee's of St. Vincents and Cabrini who are pissed and out of a job. If I get hurt at work I don't have to do deal with the comp board. I've been there and I am grateful I'll never have to go through it again.

Something I forgot earlier is the possibility of 12 hour tours coming. That mens every other weekend off, built in over time, and 16(?) fewer appearances each year. From what I understand both sides want 12 hour tours, its just a matter of the details and convincing the Labor Relations Board that its a good idea. Why thats an issue is beyond me.

[orangEMT246 6]

Working at UMDNJ in Newark as an EMT, peir-deims make $17.94 an hour with a $1.75 night diff. The 12PM-12AM qualifies as a "night shift" which is nice. We run 12 hour tours. The full timers I believe work 3--3 day work weeks and on the fourth week, 4 days. As far as a career position, there is a heavy rescue and various other teams you can join. It is also a union shop. All 911 with no inter-facility transports unless you are on the CCT truck with a RN. You do sit in your truck all shift unless you are in the "central zone" where you can sit at headquarters. But averaging 13-18 jobs in a 12 hour shift, you don't sit very long.