Ore. teacher wants to take gun to school

[Guest]

Ore. teacher wants to take gun to school

By JEFF BARNARD, Associated Press Writer

2 hours, 20 minutes ago

High school English teacher Shirley Katz insists she needs to take her pistol with her to work because she fears her ex-husband could show up and try to harm her. She's also worried about a Columbine-style attack.

But Katz's district has barred teachers from bringing guns to school, so she is challenging the ban as unlawful, since Oregon is among states that allow people with a permit to carry concealed weapons into public buildings.

"This is primarily about my Second Amendment right and Oregon law and the simple fact that I know it is my right to carry that gun," said Katz, 44, sitting at the kitchen table of her home outside this city of 74,000.

"I have that (concealed weapons) permit. I refuse to let my ex-husband bully me. And I am not going to let the school board bully me, either."

In Oregon, a sheriff can grant a concealed-weapons permit to anyone whose criminal record is clean and who completes a gun-safety course.

Thirty-eight states, along with the District of Columbia, prohibit people from taking guns to school, according to the National Council of State Legislatures. But it's unclear how many offer an exemption for people holding concealed-weapons permits, since the council does not track such exceptions.

Superintendent Phil Long insists employees and students are safer without guns on campus at South Medford High School, where Katz teaches. The district plans to make that argument when the case comes before a judge on Thursday.

Katz's request appears to be rare. School security consultant Ken Trump, president of National School Safety and Security Services in Cleveland, said he has never heard of a similar case while working in 45 states.

Katz won't say whether she has ever taken her 9 mm Glock pistol to school, but she practices with it regularly and has thought about what she would do if she had to confront a gunman. She would be sure students were locked in nearby offices out of the line of fire, and she would be ready with her pistol.

"Our safety plan at our school now is that if somebody threatening comes in, you try to avoid eye contact, and do whatever they say, and that is not acceptable anymore," she said. Shootings at Virginia Tech University and the one-room Amish school in Pennsylvania, "reinforced my belief we have to take action, we can't just acquiesce as we have been taught to do."

Katz never owned a gun until she and her then-husband, commercial photographer Gerry Katz, moved to Oregon from Atlanta eight years ago and bought 20 acres on a gravel road in the foothills of the Cascade Range.

"Being out in the country, we just felt we needed to have a gun here for personal safety," she said.

In 2004, Gerry Katz, who had a concealed weapons permit, was arrested for pulling a .38-caliber revolver after a confrontation that began in a parking lot with two men whose car almost hit his.

According to the police report, he did not point the weapon at anyone. The police seized it, and the charges were later dismissed. Gerry Katz said he never went back for his gun.

Shirley Katz said she bought her own gun in 2004 after Gerry Katz grabbed her by the throat and threatened to kill her — an allegation he denies.

He argues that her desire to take her gun to school is about reopening their divorce to get exclusive custody of their 6-year-old daughter.

"She's just scamming everybody," he said. "As soon as this thing started ... I called the principal at her high school and told her ... I am not coming to your school. I am not a threat to her. I have no desire to hurt her."

Oregon had a school shooting in 1998, when student Kip Kinkel killed his parents at home, then drove to school and opened fire in the cafeteria of Thurston High School in Springfield, killing two and wounding 25 others.

Since then, the Legislature has considered barring people with concealed weapons permits from carrying guns in schools, but the bills have failed, said Dori Brattain, general counsel to the Oregon School Boards Association.

Some South Medford students say they are uncomfortable with the idea of a teacher carrying a gun, especially since they cannot bring even scissors to school.

"I totally understand she wants to protect herself," said Lauren Forderer, 16, a junior. "But I don't agree she should bring her problems around 2,000 other people."

Even if she wins, Katz said, she may not bring the gun to school.

"The whole point of carrying concealed is no one should know you're carrying," she said. "So I feel like my carrying concealed on campus now sets me up as a target."

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I barely trusted most of my high school teacher's to be competant with a lesson plan, much less a handgun. Sorry whackjob, thats what School Resource Officers are for.

[Guest CRASH]

NOT THAT THEY HELP AT ALL BUT........... DOES SHE HAVE AN ACTIVE ORDER OF PROTECTION ANYTHING RESEMBLING A RESTRAINING ORDER THERE IS NO NEED WHAT SO EVER TO HAVE AN ARMED TEACH IN OUR SCHOOLS 1 STRAY BULLET AND IT GOES BAD FAST AND AN IM SORRY ISNT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!

[RescueKujo 130]

The article doesn't expand on her knowledge and training, but without a doubt, no one except a trained officer should have a weapon on any school grounds.

[trauma74 111]

What part of "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms" don't people understand?!?!

If my children were in a school that had armed teachers who were properly trained, I would feel very comfortable with it. With all of school shootings that have happened and with the potential for more shootings, I would rest easier knowing that if an armed criminal threatened or used a weapon against school children, that a teacher may be able to stop or prevent children from being murdered.

Look, I am a firm supporter of having cops in schools, however, one cop alone may not be able to take out an armed gunman. Yes, a school cop can call for assistance, but in the time it would take for additional police officers to arrive to assist, the whole incident could have already ended. It only takes a matter of a few minutes to kill children with an automatic high powered weapon. A teacher who is properly trained to use a weapon can come in handy for that lone school cop who's backup is still a few minutes away.

The way I see it is that teachers are not just teachers of our children, they often have to take a parental role and take care of them when they are in need or in trouble. Taking the extra step to arm yourself and put your life in the line of fire and potentially get killed while trying to protect children is a very noble move.

[irishfire2491 24]

I wont fall asleep in her class most teacher slam a book to wake you up dam she might shoot her gun lol

[Guest]

trauma74 is right.

i don't care what the situation holds, all Americans have the right to bear arms and protect themselves from physical harm. with proper carry permits and firearms training...who are we to say no...i mean she does have the Constitution behind her, right?

[MFVFD179 0]

Correct, she does have the constitution behind her.

On the other hand, is there something in the contract between her and the school stating that she will not carry a concealed weapon? If so, she shouldn't be allowed to carry one as agreed to the contract terms and conditions. If not, then she should be able to by law.

[BIGRED1 71]

Ok here are the stats on the school.

South Medford High School

Type Public Secondary

Faculty 118

Students 1,834 (2006)

Grades 9–12

Location 815 South Oakdale Avenue,

Medford, Oregon, USA

I am not thinking that she really needs a gun at school. I do agree that it is her right. If her ONLY reason to carry it is cause her husband MIGHT come and try and kill her, then maybe you should start with a restraining order. Also how bad is this school that someone needs a gun. The odds of having a crazy kid come in gunning people down is remote. maybe just leave the gun at home and carry it when your not at school

[ex-commish 490]

This is a tough one. I do agree any law abiding citizen has the right to carry a gun but what is at stake here is our kids who in any event will become victims. What if the teacher is overpowered and the gun is taken? What if the teacher snaps and shoots a student? And do schools want to bear the liability of guns in thier school? Everyyear I have to requalify and be lectured on Article 35 ( NYS Justification of Force). Would teachers be bound to the same? Usually permits have to simply be renewed. What plan would be in place for training? Sounds like an argument for law enforcement in schools where you would have trained officers who know how to react if God forbid some EDP comes in and attempts to cause harm.

[AFS1970 504]

It is absolutely her right to own and carry that gun, people need to stop confusing law abiding gun owners with criminals and the mentally unstable. Sadly the media is the chief culprit of this kind of hogwash. Two things stuck out of that article to me that bear further investigation.

First was the comment from the 16 y/o girl who thought that bringing the gun in response to a potential threat was bringing her teacher's problems to the school. I would argue that it does exactly the oposite. If the Ex-Husband is so inclined to come after her, he will likely show up for his own reasons and on his own schedule, thus it would be him bringing the problem to the school. The teacher being armed, is nothing more than a response to the perceived threat. I also liked the student comment about the teacher bringing the gun while they can't even have scisors. This case is not about arming students, which we can probably all agree is a bad idea, but lets not forget that most if not all the students are likely too young to get the required permits so that argument is nothing if not pure lunacy.

Second was the side by side mention of the school shooting by a student who had just come from a domestic shooting and the Legislature's debate on permited gun owners from carrying in schools. How would such a ban have stoppeds the student? It would not have, but the media constantly portrays gun owners as one step away from going nuts and taking out a room full of children. The placement of those facts in the article was in my opinion done to encourage the reader that if a teacher is allowed to bring a gun to school she will first stop at home, kill her parents then come to work and shoot all of her students. I just can't see that happening.

I also think that the idea that only the police should have guns is a very dangerous one at best. The second ammendment was written because in England only the nobility can bear arms (this hostorically includes swords as well as guns), that's one way to ensure you will always have a king. We however got rid of the king over 200 years ago, lets keep it that way. The first modern nation to comepleatly take away guns from the citizens was Germany just prior to World War II, under the leadership of Adolph Hitler.

[helicopper 1,050]

What part of "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms" don't people understand?!?!

If my children were in a school that had armed teachers who were properly trained, I would feel very comfortable with it. With all of school shootings that have happened and with the potential for more shootings, I would rest easier knowing that if an armed criminal threatened or used a weapon against school children, that a teacher may be able to stop or prevent children from being murdered.

Look, I am a firm supporter of having cops in schools, however, one cop alone may not be able to take out an armed gunman. Yes, a school cop can call for assistance, but in the time it would take for additional police officers to arrive to assist, the whole incident could have already ended. It only takes a matter of a few minutes to kill children with an automatic high powered weapon. A teacher who is properly trained to use a weapon can come in handy for that lone school cop who's backup is still a few minutes away.

The way I see it is that teachers are not just teachers of our children, they often have to take a parental role and take care of them when they are in need or in trouble. Taking the extra step to arm yourself and put your life in the line of fire and potentially get killed while trying to protect children is a very noble move.

First, the Constitution does guarantee the right of the people to keep and bear arms (arguably as part of a well regulated militia but we'll leave that debate for another time) but nothing confers that right to a citizen on the property of another. In other words, the school district as the property owner can prohibit anyone from carrying weapons on their property. A great example of this is the Staples Center in LA. Nobody, not off-duty LAPD not CHP, is allowed to carry a firearm at the Staples center except their security force and on-duty LAPD detailed to the site. So the school is well within their rights to deny her permission to carry on school grounds. That is not an abridgement of her rights.

Trauma also brings up another key point to this argument. He wouldn't have a problem with someone "properly trained" having a gun at school. Who defines properly trained? I would argue that police receive "proper training" and yet we all hear the stories of police officers missing their target, often hitting an uninvolved person (or building). So, do we take teachers out the classroom to give them adequate range time or do we focus on keeping the expertise and armament where it belongs? Yes, one cop may not be enough but is adding a teacher to the mix the answer? Or will that teacher be confused for a suspect by later arriving units?

Who safeguards the firearm while the teacher is at school? Is she walking around with a shoulder holster ala Dirty Harry? Come on, teaching is tough enough without expecting Mr. Kotter to become the Terminator.

Good discussion! I hope everyone citing the 2nd amendment remembers to VOTE so we don't wind up with elected officials who seek to do away with that right!