Victims Missed at Crash Site

[Guest]

This accident happened Saturday night, kids drinking and out late (emphasis added):

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=l...&id=5663895

"Families say Gary Police unfairly targeting crash victims

WLS By Charles Thomas

September 18, 2007 (GARY, Ind.) - The relatives of four teenagers involved in a deadly crash in Gary, Indiana, this past weekend say the city's police department is unfairly targeting the victims. They believe officials are looking to deflect blame for the way the investigation was conducted. The bodies of two victims killed were found by relatives six hours after officers were at the scene of the accident.

The parents of the victims in the accident are outraged again, they say. This time, they say, the Gary Police chief is trying to salvage the reputation of his department by soiling the reputation of their children.

"We had good boys and our boys are not being portrayed in the right manner," said Carmelita Evans, Darius Moore's mother.

The parents and relatives -- representing the two 18-year-olds who died, Brandon Smith and Dominique Green, and survivor Darius Moore, the 17-year-old who was behind the wheel when the Chevrolet Caprice ran into a ravine Saturday morning -- accused the Gary Police chief with trying to use the teenagers as scapegoats to deflect attention away from his department and its failings.

"They want to insult us, with this type of rhetoric, the blood-alcohol level, it was this and that," said Arthur Smith, victim's father.

Gary Police, who say they searched the crash scene Saturday morning, did not find the bodies of Smith and Green. They were discovered by Smith's father at least six hours later.

Monday, Gary Police Chief Thomas Houston said Darius Moore, the driver, and the other 17-year-old survivor, DeAndre Anderson, had been drinking illegally, their car was speeding and the boys -- who walked four blocks away from the crash -- had initially misdirected police to the accident location.

But Smith's uncle, a 20-year Gary firefighter, says after police found the crash site with an overturned car they were supposed to have called the fire department.

"Mr. Police Chief, you think you can snowball the public, but you can't snowball me. You can't snowball me Mr. Police Chief. Standard operating procedure was not followed," said Darren Smith, victim's uncle.

Gary's mayor has promised an investigation.

"Absolutely we're gonna investigate it from A to Z. The police chief has done a great job in getting all the facts together, and we're going to look at those facts and see exactly what happened here, because we don't want this to happen in our community again," said Mayor Rudy Clay, Gary.

At the news conference Tuesday, Darren Smith called for Chief Thomas Houston's resignation.

The victims' parents still have not said if they plan any legal action related to the Saturday morning accident."

What is your department's protocol? Does your town PD call the FD in the case of an accident like this? Apparently what happened was that the accident occurred and the two survivors walked to a nearby house to seek help. The car was obviously traveling at a high rate of speed and flipped into a ravine (the deceased kids were found about 60 feet from the vehicle). Does your PD call the FD with searchlights and equipment? And please, let's keep the discussion to what your department protocol is, not that the kids got blasted and got themselves killed in an accident.

[calhobs 110]

To be honest, I dont think our PD would know what to do, and thats really sad

Edited September 19, 2007 by calhobs

[JM15 386]

Indiana Fire Department Not Told of Bodies at Crash Site

JON SEIDEL

Sun-Times News Group

When an ambulance was called for two of the four victims of a violent car crash early Saturday, Gary Fire Department dispatchers might not have been told that a crash occurred.

The fire department, therefore, was not asked to help look for the other two teenagers who were left by the side of the road for at least six hours until their relatives found them dead.

Fire Chief Jeff Ward said Sunday he was told the incident was identified to dispatchers only as an "unknown injury" and that an ambulance wasn't called to the actual crash scene.

"I don't know who called it in, but we're getting the tapes to find out exactly what happened," Ward said.

2 WENT FOR HELP

Gary police officials did not return calls for comment Sunday. Cmdr. Samuel Roberts has said Officer Jeffery Westerfield followed proper procedure.

Brandon Smith, 18, was driving a truck north on Chase Street at 3 a.m. Saturday, police said. With him were Dominique Green, Darius Moore and DeAndre Anderson, all 18.

Police said Smith lost control of the truck and crashed through a metal fence into an area thick with weeds.

Smith and Green were thrown from the vehicle, police said, and one of the two remaining passengers managed to crawl out of the truck to get help. Ward said Sunday that the ambulance was asked to pick up the victims at 24th Avenue and Chase Street, three blocks north of the accident scene.

"They never went to the scene," Ward said, "and they were never told there were other patients."

IGNORED, BOYS SAY

But Brandon Smith's uncle said the boys were ignored when they told police that their friends were still at the scene of the crash.

Hours later, Arthur "Bud" Smith became worried because his son Brandon Smith hadn't come home. He decided to go out and look for him. Just after 9 a.m. Saturday, Darren and Arthur Smith found the bodies of Green and Smith 10 feet from where the truck landed.

The Lake County coroner's office was called to the scene. Both teenagers had suffered blunt force injuries and were pronounced dead.

Copyright 2005 LexisNexis,

From Firehouse.com

[20y2 43]

I have no doubt in my mind that 1.)the survivors didn't tell the police that there were other people in the vehicle and that 2.)the police assumed that they were the only occupants and didn't ask the survivors.

[helicopper 1,050]

I have no doubt in my mind that 1.)the survivors didn't tell the police that there were other people in the vehicle and that 2.)the police assumed that they were the only occupants and didn't ask the survivors.

I suspect that you're right about the survivors not being forthcoming about all the circumstances including the presence of other victims and the whereabouts of the vehicle. Even if the PD did ask - if they were told NO, what would the FD do if they were called? On the surface it seems like the PD really dropped the ball but I'm skeptical. Until all the facts are in and objectively analyzed - not by a victims family member - I'm not rushing to judgment.

There was a situation like this on the Cross County Parkway a few years ago when a victim ejected was not discovered until the next morning and the accusations FLEW blaming EVERYONE who was there for not finding him. Turned out there was no wrongdoing - just a tragic accident.

[PC_420 28]

Fully agree. I doubt any police dept. would call out the F.D. if the survivors said they were the only persons in the vehicle, as long as those survivors acted in a believable behavior. Now if they acted drunk or were falling all over the place or barely conscious I would go with the old time proverb: WHEN IN DOUBT, SEND THEM OUT. Who's it gonna hurt to look around fast with the thermal imager. As for the P.D. in my town, they are usually good with calling out the F.D.'s when there may be even the slightest chance of our victims.

[pv102 0]

Ok well I definately agree with the fact that the survivors probably didn't the anyone about their friends. But what I want to know is why does one article put the distance of the bodies at "about 60 feet" and the other one say "10 feet". This is starting to turn into another "News 12" story where instead of reporting the actual facts they are going to start shooting blame to make up some good news. Now why can't they tell it as it is a tragic accident where two young men lost there lives and let those men rest in peace, instead of smeared all over the headlines for weeks on end!

[firemoose827 324]

Guys, I got to tell ya Im a little dissapointed...You are all making "assumptions" that they didnt tell if there was any more victims. No one was there, no one here can tell if any of the survivors had head injuries, or if they were even ASKED if there were more victims...I thought we dealt with FACT on this web site. Again, a classic case of "we dont know enough to pass judgement", and on top of that this was a discussion on "policy" for responding to mva's...Guidance1 even ASKED to keep the bashing of the kids down.

Our village PD calls us for everything they come across, and vice versa, the dispatchers send them to everything we go to. We have an awesome relationship with our PD and work well together. We would have been called to the scene and we would have done what were supposed to...360 degree walk around looking for hazards and victims. Granted, the 60 feet they say the victims were from the car, we may or may not have found them, depending on where they were, but atleast we would have also "questioned" them, not "interrogated" them. The PD would have made contact with the parents of the survivors and asked them if they were the only two in the car. Thats what our dept and PD do at MVA's, and our PD never takes chances, they would have called EMS to come check on the survivors also.

Good question and one that should be addressed everywhere.

Moose

[ex-commish 490]

Monday, Gary Police Chief Thomas Houston said Darius Moore, the driver, and the other 17-year-old survivor, DeAndre Anderson, had been drinking illegally, their car was speeding and the boys -- who walked four blocks away from the crash -- had initially misdirected police to the accident location.

I think this sums it up. It is unfortunate this happened. Young lived lost due to alchohol and speed. Maybe the police should of called for help but when the smoke clears who is really at fault???

[Grumpy 1]

I have no doubt in my mind that 1.)the survivors didn't tell the police that there were other people in the vehicle and that 2.)the police assumed that they were the only occupants and didn't ask the survivors.

I suspect that you're right about the survivors not being forthcoming about all the circumstances including the presence of other victims and the whereabouts of the vehicle. Even if the PD did ask - if they were told NO, what would the FD do if they were called? On the surface it seems like the PD really dropped the ball but I'm skeptical. Until all the facts are in and objectively analyzed - not by a victims family member - I'm not rushing to judgment.

There was a situation like this on the Cross County Parkway a few years ago when a victim ejected was not discovered until the next morning and the accusations FLEW blaming EVERYONE who was there for not finding him. Turned out there was no wrongdoing - just a tragic accident.

Fully agree. I doubt any police dept. would call out the F.D. if the survivors said they were the only persons in the vehicle, as long as those survivors acted in a believable behavior. Now if they acted drunk or were falling all over the place or barely conscious I would go with the old time proverb: WHEN IN DOUBT, SEND THEM OUT. Who's it gonna hurt to look around fast with the thermal imager. As for the P.D. in my town, they are usually good with calling out the F.D.'s when there may be even the slightest chance of our victims.

Ok well I definately agree with the fact that the survivors probably didn't the anyone about their friends. But what I want to know is why does one article put the distance of the bodies at "about 60 feet" and the other one say "10 feet". This is starting to turn into another "News 12" story where instead of reporting the actual facts they are going to start shooting blame to make up some good news. Now why can't they tell it as it is a tragic accident where two young men lost there lives and let those men rest in peace, instead of smeared all over the headlines for weeks on end!

Monday, Gary Police Chief Thomas Houston said Darius Moore, the driver, and the other 17-year-old survivor, DeAndre Anderson, had been drinking illegally, their car was speeding and the boys -- who walked four blocks away from the crash -- had initially misdirected police to the accident location.

I think this sums it up. It is unfortunate this happened. Young lived lost due to alchohol and speed. Maybe the police should of called for help but when the smoke clears who is really at fault???

You all "assume" and "without a doubt" a lot. You don't know the facts so why bother. A Good search of the accident scene was not done because someone "assumed" it wasn't needed, but it was. Fact!

[DOC22 1]

You all "assume" and "without a doubt" a lot. You don't know the facts so why bother. A Good search of the accident scene was not done because someone "assumed" it wasn't needed, but it was. Fact!

Well said, Grumpy! nBest post in this thread so far!

[Guest]

Moose, I'm moving to Cobleskill.

Here is today's editorial in the Gary, IN newspaper.

Gary, IN Post-Tribune

"Gary Police bungled crash site procedure

September 19, 2007

On a chilly Saturday morning, a speeding car careened off a desolate stretch of Chase Street in Gary.

The car, driven by a 17-year-old who held a probationary driver's license, crashed through a metal guardrail, flipped several times and landed in a ravine full of thick brush. The accident had all the earmarks of a terrible teen tragedy. Its ugly aftermath has taken the tragedy to another level.

A woman called police on her cell phone, reporting that a bloody person tried to flag her down on Chase Street about 2 a.m. Alone in her car, she didn't stop.

Later, two teens seeking help pounded on a door at 24th Avenue and Chase Street. That's where the responding police officer first found the survivors.

Their exchange with the Gary police officer has ignited a firestorm of controversy and accusations. Reports are muddled on what the officer was told about the other passengers. It was several hours later that they were found by one of the fathers, now tortured by grief and anger. The dead teens were found 50 feet from the car.

The Gary Police could have and should have conducted a search-and-rescue effort in the area. Gary, the largest police force in Northwest Indiana, doesn't have police dogs. Nearly ever other department from Lake Station to Lowell has police dogs. Gary's firefighters, trained in search-and-rescue operations, were never asked to assist in a search. It was left to a worried father to find his son near the accident site.

The story prompted outrage aimed squarely at the police who have spent the last few days defending their actions. On Tuesday, Police Chief Thomas Houston called the case out of the ordinary and said in the future "we'll exhaust every resource" in locating victims.

Hindsight isn't a substitute for proper police work.

The citizens of Gary deserve more than excuses. "

Another story...

Area Police rely on Info at Scene...

"By Jon Seidel Post-Tribune staff writer

GARY -- Every car crash is different, police around the region said Tuesday, leaving officers to rely on what they are told when they get to the scene.

"There's no A-B-C on the list," Lake County Police Sgt. Mike Higgins said. "It all depends on the information that's received by the officer at the scene."

The Gary Police Department came under fire this week for its handling of a fatal car crash that killed two teens and injured two others early Saturday.

Brandon Smith and Dominique Green, both 18, died instantly from their injuries, the Lake County coroner's office said, but their families are upset because police failed to find them and left them by the side of the road for six hours.

They were eventually discovered by Smith's father. Also injured in the crash were Darius Moore, the driver, and DeAndre Anderson, both 17.

Mayor Rudy Clay on Monday said that had he been on the scene, he would have called other departments to assist in the search.

Griffith Police Chief Ron Kottka said he has been lucky in not finding himself in a situation like the one faced by Gary police officers last weekend.

He said his officers tend to anyone with injuries first, usually calling other departments if assistance is need. For example, Griffith would call on the fire department if someone is trapped in a car.

"That's when our fire department comes into play," Kottka said.

Munster Sgt. Steve Kovacik said his department's guidelines do not outline a procedure for searching for missing victims.

It does say, Kovacik said, that the first officer on the scene is responsible for determining if there are any injuries, and calling an ambulance if people are hurt.

Munster's fire department is called to car accident scenes automatically if there is a fire or hazardous material involved."

My question remains--What does your department do? Do you have a protocol between the PD and FD in a case like this? It almost sounds like there needs to be a mutual aid agreement within agencies.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Guidance1

[MoFire390 118]

this kind of sounds a little familiar to me when a student went missing in VA about 2 weeks ago. Again they were searching for the victum and didn't find anything. Fortunetly he wasn't seriously injured.

[Future Fireman 4]

You all "assume" and "without a doubt" a lot. You don't know the facts so why bother. A Good search of the accident scene was not done because someone "assumed" it wasn't needed, but it was. Fact!

Grumpy, great post. My old english teacher had the expression "When you ASSUME something, you make an A$$ out of U & ME!" I say that his statement was as appliable in the classroom as much as as this forum.

Mike

[Monty 35]

I'd be very surprised if our FD got called. We are dispatched by PD and certainly do not automatically get called to all MVA's or Rollovers.

Obviously I can't speak to our PD's SOP's because I don't know them - I assume they have them, but then again perhaps I shouldn't I don't even know if EMS would automatically be called for an incident with a roll over and occupants who have self-extricated.

[firemoose827 324]

Moose, I'm moving to Cobleskill.

Come on over brother!! We work with some of the finest PD units Ive seen, Im from Long Island originally and these Officers are the tops. They work with us and do whatever they can to help and vice versa. This sounded like a tragedy that couldnt be avoided, but I would have felt better if everything that possibly could have been done was. Its a shame. Great post.

Moose

[DOC22 1]

We get dispatched on most accidents, unless they're fender benders. Rollovers AAs with "unknown injuries" we're there. Common swese should prevail! Cae down into a revine? Regardless of anything said by the survivors, a complete search of the area needs to be made. If that means FD gets dispatched, so be it.

[helicopper 1,050]

You all "assume" and "without a doubt" a lot. You don't know the facts so why bother. A Good search of the accident scene was not done because someone "assumed" it wasn't needed, but it was. Fact!

Hey Grumpy - I agree with you about not having all the facts, that's why I'm skeptical about the media accounts. But you're making an assumption too - you assume that the location of the scene was known when the article states the PD was "misdirected". You also assume that someone determined that a search of "the scene" wasn't needed. How do you search if you don't know where to start?

DOC, if they knew the car was down the ravine, I'd agree with you 100%. We don't know what they knew or didn't know at the time. All they had were the two victims on a street where there was no crash - apparently 4 blocks away from the actual scene.

Now here's a question for everyone... 911 call to PD, caller states "she just heard a loud crash on the parkway". PD responds, checks the area and no accident is found. Should the FD then be called to search the area?

[RescueKujo 130]

We had an incident several years ago in a rural area I worked. Rollover into thick brush. Sheriff, Fire and our unit get onscene and there were still people in the vehicle. What no one was told was that 1 other person from the car had been missing. He was found a few hours later 150 feet from the car. It was determined in the autopsy that the victim lived for a period of time after the ejection and died after not being found.

I've been on other scenes when there was an unconscious adult in a car with a car seat. Searches were done to about 100 feet in a circular pattern from the car to make sure there wasn't a child.

You do the best you can with what you have, both equipment and information wise. You do your due dilligence, but sometimes caca happens and no matter how you try to mitigate it, there's nothing you can do.

[mstrang1 213]

Also make sure to remember to not only ask, "how many people were in the car?", but to make sure that number includes that person.

I was at a call where we arrived on scene of a major car wreck and there were teenagers all over. The one conscious kid I was checking out said there were 4 in the car, but what he meant was 4 OTHERS in the car. Luckily all the patients were found, but could have been bad being that one of the victims ended up in a nearby ravine and was able to pull himself out as we were arriving on scene.

[helicopper 1,050]

We had an incident several years ago in a rural area I worked. Rollover into thick brush. Sheriff, Fire and our unit get onscene and there were still people in the vehicle. What no one was told was that 1 other person from the car had been missing. He was found a few hours later 150 feet from the car. It was determined in the autopsy that the victim lived for a period of time after the ejection and died after not being found.

I've been on other scenes when there was an unconscious adult in a car with a car seat. Searches were done to about 100 feet in a circular pattern from the car to make sure there wasn't a child.

You do the best you can with what you have, both equipment and information wise. You do your due dilligence, but sometimes caca happens and no matter how you try to mitigate it, there's nothing you can do.

"caca" certainly does happen!

Who decided on the 100 foot search? What if the victim is 105 feet away? How did we arrive at the 100 foot search area? - see what I mean, we'll be second guessed no matter what we do or how we do it.

(Kujo, I'm not bashing you, your agency, or the incident - I'm merely making a point!)

[RescueKujo 130]

Chris,

It was about 15 years ago, but I think it was the law enforcement agency onscene.

[Guest]

Thought you all might be interested in this update on the story:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/i...9936,full.storyhttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/indiana/chi-ap-in-bodiesleft,0,5569936,full.story

Recording shows Gary officers knew of missing victims

By TOM COYNE

Associated Press Writer

8:40 AM CDT, September 27, 2007

GARY, Ind.

Police officers who didn't listen to survivors of a crash who told them two friends were in the car with them should lose their jobs, two parents of victims say.

The bodies of Brandon Smith and Dominique Green were found by Smith's father, Arthur Smith, about six hours after the accident and hours after police left the scene. The car was gone by the time Arthur Smith arrived, but he estimates the bodies were about 15 to 20 feet from the wreck.

Smith said Wednesday he believes Gary Police Chief Tom Houston and officers on the scene who were in a position to call for a search should be fired.

"I've always been told that you're responsible for what you do. All we want is for them to be responsible for what they were sworn, sworn to do," he said.

Smith and Carmelita Evans, the mother of the car's driver, Darius Moore, are also upset because they believe police tried to place blame on the teens.

"They tried to continue to cover it up and put the focus on our kids," Evans said. "They tried to make our kids look like they were bad kids."

Dispatch recordings obtained by the Post-Tribune of Merrillville from the Gary Police Department show that officers were told that Smith and Green were in the car when it crashed Sept. 15.

"He says he had two other guys with him," an unidentified officer said on the recording about 1:45 a.m. "They might still be in the car. You might want to check."

Another officer responds: "Yeah, I'm headed there right now."

The recording has an exchange between officers a few minutes later:

"He said if they're not in the car, then they had to have gotten out on their own and walked off," one said.

"If you've seen the vehicle, I don't know how anyone would have walked off," another responded.

A 911 call about 9 a.m. reported that the bodies of Smith and Green were found after Smith's father went to the scene. Wails from the victims' families can be heard over the police radio as officers call for assistance.

Evans said her son was ecstatic when he learned of the release of the recordings and what they contained.

"He said, 'Mama, I kept telling you. I told you, Mama, that my friends were out there and they wouldn't listen to me. They told me to sit down on the ground and be quiet,"' Evans said.

Gary police Cmdr. Sam Roberts, a department spokesman, said last week that officers searched the site, but that the survivors told officers they might have dropped off their two friends earlier.

Roberts said Wednesday that the internal affairs department is looking into the conduct of the officers and whether they should be reprimanded. He said the dispatch tapes alone don't tell the whole story. He said police are also reviewing whether to file any charges against Moore.

Police have Moore and passenger DeAndre Anderson, both 17, both had alcohol in their systems at the time of the crash.

The Lake County coroner's office has said Smith and Green, both 18, died instantly, but the families have sought independent autopsies.

Gary Mayor Rudy Clay was not available for comment Wednesday, said his spokeswoman, Lalosa Burns.

"We're still continuing to pray for the families and for the healing of the families and the community," Burns said.

Copyright © 2007, The Associated Press

[helicopper 1,050]

Thought you all might be interested in this update on the story:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/i...9936,full.storyhttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/indiana/chi-ap-in-bodiesleft,0,5569936,full.story

Now THIS sure changes things!!! Gotta say, based upon the info in this article, it seems like the PD dropped the ball in a big way.

As for placing blame - the PD didn't cause the accident so the driver (underage with alcohol in his system - according to the article) IS responsible.

Regardless of who did or didn't do what, it's a tragic waste of two lives.

Edited September 28, 2007 by Chris192