Blue lights on Ambulances?

[Guest]

i know people don't like all the "lights and sirens" topics, but oh well...

we're looking into a new ambulance, i know PD has the ok for Blue lights and not sure about the FD's

i did searches w/ various key words, but i didn't find a CLEAR answer, but i did find something i didn't see until now from august in the "valhalla support unit" post. the answer to that topic i understood, but at the same time it doesn't seem logical (check out the post)

http://emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=20048&hl=valhalla+ambulance"]

so, is it LEGAL for ambulances to have blue lights??

i don't like (nor want) them in the front nor sides, but if every recent study shows Blue and Yellow Lights are the most effect PROTECTION power for the rear, than i want them. we'll hopefully get those chevron reflectors too.

if anyone's got the answer...thanks in advance!

Edited September 15, 2007 by vacguy

[OoO 24]

4.Blue light. a. One blue light may be affixed to any motor vehicle

owned by a volunteer member of a fire department or on a motor vehicle

owned by a member of such person's family residing in the same household

or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary

interest or by which he or she is employed, provided such volunteer

firefighter has been authorized in writing to so affix a blue light by

the chief of the fire department or company of which he or she is a

member, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time

by the chief who issued the same or his or her successor in office. Such

blue light may be displayed exclusively by such volunteer firefighter on

such a vehicle only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of

blue and red light combinations shall be prohibited on all fire

vehicles. The use of blue lights on fire vehicles shall be prohibited

and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only

by a volunteer firefighter except as otherwise provided for in

subparagraph b of this paragraph.

b. In addition to the red and white lights authorized to be displayed

pursuant to paragraph two of this subdivision, one or more blue lights

or combination blue and red lights or combination blue, red and white

lights may be affixed to a police vehicle, provided that such blue light

or lights shall be displayed on a police vehicle for rear projection

only. In the event that the trunk or rear gate of a police vehicle

obstructs or diminishes the visibility of other emergency lighting on

such vehicle, a blue light may be affixed to and displayed from the

trunk, rear gate or interior of such vehicle. Such lights may be

displayed on a police vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an

emergency operation. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be

deemed to authorize the use of blue lights on police vehicles unless

such vehicles also display one or more red or combination red and white

lights as otherwise authorized in this subdivision.

Based on this, only a volunteer fire fighter's POV and the back of a police vehicle may display blue lights. So yes, it would be illegal for an ambulance to display a blue light.

[Remember585 815]

Any cops on here think that an Ambulance or FD vehicle displaying a blue light to the rear would get a summons?

[20y2 43]

Any cops on here think that an Ambulance or FD vehicle displaying a blue light to the rear would get a summons?

I would never, ever write it, heck I've been seeing blue on the fronts of some police cars that were all red and white before, blue and red will be the standard in NY in a few years.

[Jybehofd 85]

OOPPPSSS one of our vollie busses has blue foward lights

and its a 2002 i belive

[20Truck 7]

Thank about it:

You have an MVA, traffic is getting backed up, what is going to show up better in a flood of RED brake lights, blue or red?

Bottom line - If it involves the safety of your firefighters, police, or EMTs there should be no question. Ive always been a fan of blue lights for ALL emergency vehicles, front and back!

[ac316scu 31]

elmsford pd has blue on their driver side mirrors. i guess for better visability with on comming cars

[HFD750 6]

My chief's truck has foward and rear blue in the lightbar and the dash is red/blue... I guess thats a violation.

[RWC130 594]

In the State of New York BLUE LIGHTS are for Volunteer Firefighters.

NYS VTL 375 (41) The law was revised about a year or two ago to allow Law Enforcement to

also use Blue Lights facing the rear and rear only.

I've seen a lot of Fire Chiefs, Fire Apparatus, and EMS also now add Blue Lights

to both the front and rear.

Is it "ILLEGAL" ? Yes!

Will anyone Ticket you? I sure hope not!

Is Blue MUCH brighter than Red and more visable? Absolutely!

Personally I see nothing wrong with a Blue Light; Flasher, Rotator, LED, or Strobe

on the front or rear of any Emergency Vehicle. IT'S ALL ABOUT SAFETY!!!!

Next time our STATE TROOPERS want Blue Lights for the SAFETY of the Troopers on the roadways

maybe we as Volunteer Firefighters and FASNY should NOT fight them!!!!!!

I fully supported this Blue Light use for Law Enforcement since DAY 1.

I sent letters to Gov. Pataki and the PBA President of the NYS Troopers.

BLUE IS BRIGHTER!

[JetPhoto 626]

The way I see it is the more people see blue lights on emergency vehicles the more people will yield to a fireman go to a call.

[EXDC203 38]

Well I guess we should just throw out the vehicle & traffic laws. The volunteer firefighters assc has fought for years over the issue of removing blue lights from PD vehicles....because the law says volunteer firefighter personal vehicles only.

I have no problem with what color lights are on it......change the law......which they did.....allowing blue to the rear.

Current law does not allow blue on rigs or ambulances. If we want or need blue lights we should work to change the laws so we are not opreratng Illegally.

[MICP2823 0]

The newest fight and recommendations for lights at the scene is Amber. There have been studies with placing just one Amber light and that being the only light lit when parked at an incident. I have to say I am a little skeptical about that. But something needs to be placed as a standred. Just the other night I saw two cars with a van pulled over. Both of the PD cars were parked at a 40 degree angle to protect the officer and person they had pulled over, great. However when you came over the crest of the hill to see this you immediately got blinded by the alternating head lights, clear strobes in the grill, blue, red and clear light bar. It was just after dusk and I can say I wasn't able to see for 10 seconds.

[Guest feraldan]

One of our ambulances has a single blue LED panel on the driver side. It caused a stir for about one day before everyone realized that most of our EMS crews are firefighters as well so you can't really argue against yourself.

[ex-commish 490]

Next time our STATE TROOPERS want Blue Lights for the SAFETY of the Troopers on the roadways

maybe we as Volunteer Firefighters and FASNY should NOT fight them!!!!!!

I found it amazing and more so disturbing that so much effort put in by FASNY to try and stop the police from using blue lights. I believe once again it was an issue that FASNY was afraid that it may end up where the blue light would of been considered an emergency light and volunteers would no longer be able to use blue lights. When you really look at it they do not serve any purpose and before some of you throw rocks at me just consider this....you are responding to a call and you come across a red light. You stop and now are waiting for the light to turn green. Cars who have a green light also stop. What do you do? You can't proceed untill the light changes...correct?

I feel the light creates more problems.

[Chief2573 0]

The Feds have been using Red/Blue combo for years. The postel police use this combo as well,It makes you wonder if they actually knew what they were doing?... Nah lets not get crazy!

[ytpastchief99-00 6]

Well I guess we should just throw out the vehicle & traffic laws. The volunteer firefighters assc has fought for years over the issue of removing blue lights from PD vehicles....because the law says volunteer firefighter personal vehicles only.

I have no problem with what color lights are on it......change the law......which they did.....allowing blue to the rear.

Current law does not allow blue on rigs or ambulances. If we want or need blue lights we should work to change the laws so we are not opreratng Illegally.

You should follow the old saying; fight the fights worth fighting for. (Choice your battles).

One battle would be making sure that those who are teaching our young drivers know the laws. The other day I was behind a vehicle that had 3 young people and 1 that appeared to be the teacher (driver’s ed. teacher). The giveaway would be the sign on the vehicle that read student driver. I don’t know when I was learning to drive they taught us to pull to the right and stop when an approaching emergence vehicle with light and sirens were on. Not this teacher never pullover causing the medic car and ambulances to have to cross the double yellow line into oncoming traffic. At least those people know enough to pull over.

I guess what I am saying, is that it doesn’t really matter what color the light are or what kind of vehicle you’re driving. We have to start to reeducate the public. By doing this along with more visible scene lighting we may just reduce our LODD that happen on our streets.

[trauma74 111]

I think that NY should do what NJ does. In NJ, FD/PD & EMS vehicles have blue/red combo for front, back, sides. All Fire/Rescue & EMS Volunteers have straight blue. No green lights are used for any volunteers. Green lights should be reserved for Incident Command vehicles.

On the rear our new buses, we have 4 blue high intensity LEDs mixed in with our red and amber LEDs. We have one blue LED in the center of our front lightbar. It is not overkill, it provides a break in the pattern of the red and white LEDs. We also have a switch on the console that allows us to shut off all of the blue and red LEDs on the back of the bus leaving just the amber lights flashing. In some cases shutting down of but the amber lights can be good if you do not want to draw to much attention to yourself. If you have just amber lights on, people will just think that the DPW is working on something.

However, when we are on the highway I am a strong advocate of having as many lights as possible on the rear of your vehicle. I agree with the fact that colors other than red should be used on the rear of emergency vehicles so they standout in the sea of red brake lights, tail lights and turn signal lights.

[Remember585 815]

I think we're missing the big picture here.

If we TURN OFF OUR LIGHTS at night then we can't blind oncoming traffic thus reducing the number of accidents. Using proper lane closing / traffic merging techniques, SCENE LIGHTING, NFPA compliant reflective striping and keeping our personnel out of the way is our best approach.

Obviously PD units don't have all the luxuries we the FD and EMS world do, but there is nothing to say that thier lights can't have a dimmer control and/or forward-facing shutoff when the vehicles are parked.

We've been discussing putting a blue strobe to the rear of our Engine and to be honest - I am undecided. I think at night we should turn them off so we don't blind people but during the day leave them on.

[Guest partyrock]

We need LESS lights out there on accident scenes. Study after study has been produced showing that the light show we put on on the side of the road actually draws drivers into us. This is especially true with drivers that are impaired by drugs, alcohol, or lack of sleep. Who here rides motorcycles or bicycles? When you want to avoid an obstacle or choose a line where do you look? You look at where you want to go, not at what you want to avoid. The same is true for cars. This effect is magnified when people's driving ability is impaired. This is the same science behind the chevrons that are showing up on rigs. The lines of the chevron draw the drivers eyes away from the vehicle.

Why does being seen amongst a sea of red brake lights matter? If everyone is stopping you have nothing to worry about. The bright lights and loud sires are great for getting drivers attention while responding to assignments. Once on scene we want the drivers to stop looking at us and pay attention to the road. If you are going to be closing a lane down, shut it down well before traffic gets to the apparatus. Get the traffic into an established pattern before it gets to you so people can just worry about rubber necking and not about merging when they are passing the scene. Flares are cheap. Use them early and use them often to guide traffic. If you leave it up to people to decide when to merge they'll be doing it at your tailboard.

[JM15 386]

Well Said Partyrock you make a lot of good points in your post

Edited September 17, 2007 by JM15

[RWC130 594]

I saw a great EVOC video that was done several years back. It discussed issues of Red, Blue, Clear, and Amber Lights.

It gave in depth pro's and con's for each light.

It also pointed out that after numerous studies Blue and Amber were the best for REAR warning lights.

The CHP and LAPD have used both color combo for a while.

They touched upon why both the FDNY and NYSP added Amber flashers to the rear lights.

As pointed out Red Lights are often associated with normal traffic such as brake lights where the Amber and Blue stand out.

Study after study points out that red lights are a magnet for drunk and fatigued drivers!

Another big topic in on scene lights. Having numerous Emergency Vehicles on a scene at night with lights flashing

causes a "Carnival Effect" and we all know everyone loves a Carnival. Roadway DISASTER!

Having an Amber and Blue rear light on ALL Emergency Vehicles is a GREAT idea

if for nothing less..... SAFETY!

Next time you are approaching a New York State Trooper who has a car stopped at night take a good look at the

Emergency Lights off in the distance. You will notice the Blue first, then Amber, and LAST Red.

When you see the Trooper remember to SLOW DOWN too!

Especially if it's 3K59! lol

[MoFire390 118]

I've seen ambulances with blue lights in the front and rear, I believe that Mamaronck(problably spelt wrong)VAC, has blue front and rear.

[TFDjunior 0]

My towns new ambulance has 1 blue light is it in the Upper left rear corner.

[helicopper 1,050]

Any cops on here think that an Ambulance or FD vehicle displaying a blue light to the rear would get a summons?

Considering all the police cars and fire apparatus and ambulances that ALREADY use blue lights front and rear - I'm guessing NO.

Although, if we started enforcing ALL the violations of the VTL for vehicles with 19 blue/green or other colored LED's lights instead of the ONE allowed by law, we could balance the state budget, eliminate school taxes and get refunds on our personal income taxes too! Maybe Putnam could even fund their ALS program with the surplus!

Too bad this thread wasn't a month ago - I might had the pick on the 100,000th post lottery after all! Oh well... Here we go again!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Chris lol. If that aint the truth brother.

I have a even better idea to throw in. Maybe we can get crews to shut down the lights when they arrive on scene of a call and there is no traffic hazard and they are not needed. What is the real reason to keep them on and why draw more unnecessary attention to yourself and your patient?

[Guest]

Considering all the police cars and fire apparatus and ambulances that ALREADY use blue lights front and rear - I'm guessing NO.

Although, if we started enforcing ALL the violations of the VTL for vehicles with 19 blue/green or other colored LED's lights instead of the ONE allowed by law, we could balance the state budget, eliminate school taxes and get refunds on our personal income taxes too! Maybe Putnam could even fund their ALS program with the surplus!

Too bad this thread wasn't a month ago - I might had the pick on the 100,000th post lottery after all! Oh well... Here we go again!

Even if someone were to get a summons, it is an equipment violation. Hopefully not worth any cops time and really not a big deal.

Mike

[20y2 43]

Even if someone were to get a summons, it is an equipment violation. Hopefully not worth any cops time and really not a big deal.

Mike

Technically it's a moving violation, not a equipment violation, it would be two points.

[Guest]

Technically it's a moving violation, not a equipment violation, it would be two points.

if you don't mind me askin, what makes it a technicality? i did always think improper or outed lights were equipment violations...

[Oswegowind 17]

Considering all the police cars and fire apparatus and ambulances that ALREADY use blue lights front and rear - I'm guessing NO.

Although, if we started enforcing ALL the violations of the VTL for vehicles with 19 blue/green or other colored LED's lights instead of the ONE allowed by law, we could balance the state budget, eliminate school taxes and get refunds on our personal income taxes too! Maybe Putnam could even fund their ALS program with the surplus!

Too bad this thread wasn't a month ago - I might had the pick on the 100,000th post lottery after all! Oh well... Here we go again!

I could go for this! Some of the lighting displays I have seen could win an EMMY!

[helicopper 1,050]

I could go for this! Some of the lighting displays I have seen could win an EMMY!

Some of the light shows rival Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Star Wars!

20y2? What section are you referring to that is two points for a light violation - I thought OLMMedic was right that it is an equipment violation under section 375?