Firefighter inexperience

[MoFire390 118]

Hey Everyone,

Came across this article today at work thought it was really interesting, its about firefighter inexperience and improper driving to the scene. Thought it was a good article (but its sad) take a look and let meknow what y'all think.

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/S...h/46$56332

Thanks Everyone

[ex-commish 490]

"It is my opinion that the cause of the crash was a combination of speed and driver inexperience," Stedman wrote.

Fire Department records show that Beebe-Lawson had only 37 1/2 hours of logged firefighter training, including 22 1/2 hours of truck driving and 7 1/2 hours driving the 3,500-gallon Freightliner tanker, when he got behind the wheel at the station, Stedman's 41-page report states."

This is a typical but unfortunate picture of the problem. Most accidents are caused by driver error which usually equates to driver inexperience which is the result of not enough or no training at all. The New York State did the right thing by mandating EVOC to take Pump or Aerial OPS. Now departments need to step up to the plate and make EVOC mandatory to be a driver.

There have also been cases where members were involved in accidents while driving thier POV's. And in many cases speed again was a factor and this is because in many cases someone joins thier dept and is given a blue light card so they can purchase a blue light brighter than the sun so the thought process is I have authority to speed and drive like a maniac.

[JM15 386]

No disrespect to the fallen FF but I got the impression from the article that he stole the tanker. Did anyone else get that feeling?

[Guest pentax02839]

well it sounds like he was tring to be helpful.but he had very little driving expernce with that tanker.also it seem like he stole it.or took it without permission.

[firecapt32 282]

lets see speed-lack of training-no seat belt-leads to another firefighter death---how many times and how many ways do you need to hear 25% of all firefighters deaths are the results of driving!!!!

we go from driving a suv to driving a 20 ton fire apparatus--of course things are going to be differeent.

well louder this time

25%OF ALL FIREFIGHTER DEATHS ARE FROM MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENTS.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Being this happened a little north of us I can tell you that there was never any talk of the truck being "stolen". It seems that per the troopers findings the unit may not have been requested and the FF may have taken it in the manner described, which certainly could be viewed as stealing it. Nonetheless, it was treated by the dept. as a LODD and not as a stolen firetruck.

That being said, I started a thread there in firehouse.com about changing the rules on homemande or modified tankers. Aside from his apparent lack of driver trraining and experience, the tanker was a converted oil truck, which only contain three baffles as opposed to the requisite 16 when esigned to haul water. Plus the water weighs much more than oil, so it was top heavy and probably overloaded for the braking system.

As I said on FH.com, I've been fortunate enough to call Mike Wilbur a friend for a few years and having spent many hours in listening to him and picking his brain, it's hard not to share his passion for firefighter safety. We've implemented many of his ideas into our driving/response program to be safer on the road and now maybe it's time to help him work on his mission.

My proposal for my great state is to take away the "authorized emergency vehicle" status from any fire apparatus that requires the firefighter exemption be used to waive the need for a commerical vehicle drivers license. We all drive trucks on standard issues licenses that normally would require commercial vehicle licenses, with drug testing and special drivers ed. Without "authorized emergency vehicle" status the apparatus would not be allowed to run lights or sirens while moving down the road. This will slow the response down somewhat and take away the siren driven adrenaline. Not a silver bullet, but a start to recognizing these things kill people. This would apply to engines and tankers, maybe an aerial if some dept. was stupid enough to modify one. but it would not apply to vehicles that do not require CDL's. like chiefs buggies or utility trucks or ambulances.

While it may seem like a small step, drastic ones such as outlawing "shade tree" apparatus is most likely to fail. Mandated driver training would be great, but again the volunteer depts. often complain about mandates as their number drop. So how about there in NY?

[OnTheWheel 43]

I definitly agree that EVOC should be mandated as well as a minimum amount of training hours, as well as uearly hours logged before you need to "retrain". And SLOW DOWN! People have just rolled the dice driving "quickly" to calls, nothing has happened so they think its fine. Im sure I could work some numbers up (after dusting off my AI books), but the average car takes about 50 feet to stop at 30mph, do you think a truck could do that with load shift etc? Not even close!

[ex-commish 490]

Being this happened a little north of us I can tell you that there was never any talk of the truck being "stolen". It seems that per the troopers findings the unit may not have been requested and the FF may have taken it in the manner described, which certainly could be viewed as stealing it. Nonetheless, it was treated by the dept. as a LODD and not as a stolen firetruck.

That being said, I started a thread there in firehouse.com about changing the rules on homemande or modified tankers. Aside from his apparent lack of driver trraining and experience, the tanker was a converted oil truck, which only contain three baffles as opposed to the requisite 16 when esigned to haul water. Plus the water weighs much more than oil, so it was top heavy and probably overloaded for the braking system.

As I said on FH.com, I've been fortunate enough to call Mike Wilbur a friend for a few years and having spent many hours in listening to him and picking his brain, it's hard not to share his passion for firefighter safety. We've implemented many of his ideas into our driving/response program to be safer on the road and now maybe it's time to help him work on his mission.

My proposal for my great state is to take away the "authorized emergency vehicle" status from any fire apparatus that requires the firefighter exemption be used to waive the need for a commerical vehicle drivers license. We all drive trucks on standard issues licenses that normally would require commercial vehicle licenses, with drug testing and special drivers ed. Without "authorized emergency vehicle" status the apparatus would not be allowed to run lights or sirens while moving down the road. This will slow the response down somewhat and take away the siren driven adrenaline. Not a silver bullet, but a start to recognizing these things kill people. This would apply to engines and tankers, maybe an aerial if some dept. was stupid enough to modify one. but it would not apply to vehicles that do not require CDL's. like chiefs buggies or utility trucks or ambulances.

While it may seem like a small step, drastic ones such as outlawing "shade tree" apparatus is most likely to fail. Mandated driver training would be great, but again the volunteer depts. often complain about mandates as their number drop. So how about there in NY?

[ex-commish 490]

Being this happened a little north of us I can tell you that there was never any talk of the truck being "stolen". It seems that per the troopers findings the unit may not have been requested and the FF may have taken it in the manner described, which certainly could be viewed as stealing it. Nonetheless, it was treated by the dept. as a LODD and not as a stolen firetruck.

That being said, I started a thread there in firehouse.com about changing the rules on homemande or modified tankers. Aside from his apparent lack of driver trraining and experience, the tanker was a converted oil truck, which only contain three baffles as opposed to the requisite 16 when esigned to haul water. Plus the water weighs much more than oil, so it was top heavy and probably overloaded for the braking system.

As I said on FH.com, I've been fortunate enough to call Mike Wilbur a friend for a few years and having spent many hours in listening to him and picking his brain, it's hard not to share his passion for firefighter safety. We've implemented many of his ideas into our driving/response program to be safer on the road and now maybe it's time to help him work on his mission.

My proposal for my great state is to take away the "authorized emergency vehicle" status from any fire apparatus that requires the firefighter exemption be used to waive the need for a commerical vehicle drivers license. We all drive trucks on standard issues licenses that normally would require commercial vehicle licenses, with drug testing and special drivers ed. Without "authorized emergency vehicle" status the apparatus would not be allowed to run lights or sirens while moving down the road. This will slow the response down somewhat and take away the siren driven adrenaline. Not a silver bullet, but a start to recognizing these things kill people. This would apply to engines and tankers, maybe an aerial if some dept. was stupid enough to modify one. but it would not apply to vehicles that do not require CDL's. like chiefs buggies or utility trucks or ambulances.

While it may seem like a small step, drastic ones such as outlawing "shade tree" apparatus is most likely to fail. Mandated driver training would be great, but again the volunteer depts. often complain about mandates as their number drop. So how about there in NY?

I am for anything that would create a safe enviornment for drivers. I also feel it should be illegal to convert apparatus such as described above. I realize this could have a cost impact in some departments but the it does not compare to the cost of a life.

[MoFire390 118]

There are so many classes out there now its insane. I think NFPA needs to come up with a National Training program to reduce some of these accidents that aren't called for. I must say I have yet to take EVOC or CEVO but I've heard that they are great classes, the main thing that FF's/ EMS/ PD officers should remember you are no help to the victim if you yourself dont make it to the scene.

I got the same idea reading the article that he "stole" it.

[eckyphats 0]

SORRY BUT IF YOUR NOT QUALIFIED ON TRUCK...DONT TAKE IT