Suspected chemical weapons found at U.N. office

[JM15 386]

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- Workers found vials believed to contain the poison gas phosgene at a U.N. office building in New York, U.N. officials said Thursday.

U.N. archivists for UNMOVIC, the U.N. chemical weapons agency, unexpectedly turned up samples of material from an Iraqi chemical weapons plant in old files on Friday, U.N. officials said.

The samples were in weapons inspectors' files dating back to the 1990s, but the substance is not believed to pose any immediate danger, the officials said.

The building where the samples turned up is several blocks away from main U.N. Secretariat building along New York's East River. Tests found no toxic vapors in the offices, U.N. spokeswoman Marie Okabe said. Video Watch how the chemical scare unfolded »

Phosgene is an industrial chemical used to make plastics and pesticides, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. At room temperature, it is a poisonous gas, but can be stored and shipped under cooling and pressure.

Phosgene was used extensively during World War I as a choking agent and caused a majority of the war's gas deaths, according to the CDC.

Phosgene gas and liquid are irritants that can damage the skin, eyes, nose, throat and lungs, the CDC said.

The material was taken from al-Muthanna chemical weapons plant north of Baghdad. The samples are sealed and have been there since 1996.

The samples were in containers that ranged in size "from small vials to tubes the length of a pen," Okabe said.

Ewan Buchanan, a spokesman for UNMOVIC, said the substances are in a sealed metal box and wrapped in a plastic bag, "so there is no immediate danger."

Inspectors from UNMOVIC and its predecessor agency UNSCOM were responsible for verifying Iraq's compliance with U.N. resolutions requiring it to abandon its pursuit of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. The material collected normally would have been destroyed after analysis, UNMOVIC said.

UNMOVIC's mandate ended this year, and its offices are being packed up and moved out, State Department Deputy Spokesman Tom Casey said.

The FBI's Hazardous Materials Response Unit is coordinating with New York police and other agencies to remove and dispose of the material, FBI spokesman Richard Kolko said.

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"There is no hazard to the people of New York from this incident," Kolko added.

An FBI team was on its way to the UNMOVIC offices where the samples were found. They will be taken to a U.S. facility in Maryland where previous chemical samples from Iraq's weapons inspections were destroyed, Buchanan said.

Courtesy of CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/30/un.gas/index.html

How can they lose track of this stuff? That is scary.

Edited August 30, 2007 by JM15

[Goose 188]

So now they are an impotent agency who loses track of their own WMD samples. So, can someone remind me, why do we put so much faith in these people again?

[emtpjimd 1]

And just remember what we were told...that Saddam had NO WMD or chemical warfare capabilities and nothing was found....YEAH RIGHT.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

So, can someone remind me, why do we put so much faith in these people again?

Who does? We are only their main enforcement. That is why we went into Iraq unilaterially without UN sanction or further assistance.

How do they lose that stuff? Unfortunaterly feces happens (again wish I could use the proper word).

You think that is scary? You have any idea of how much Smallpox and Anthrax, including the Soviet made "Super Anthrax" bug the former Soviet Union couldn't account for after its collapse. There were weapons labs in some of the "stan" countries it controlled that had these biological weapons in the equivalent of cat food containers in unlocked regular domestic refrigerators located in deserted buildings. Go figure.

Be glad the UN stuff was Phosgene.

Just for conversation reasons no one really questions that Iraq had weapons. Whether or not they still had them when we invaded will always be the great debate. Personally as a jarhead I know he did in the 90's. He stopped producing (the guy was sadisitc not insane) them. Question is where did he hide or ship them? Perhaps France knows. They do whatever is needed and sell weapons to the highest bidder. That is why much of Iraq's weapons have the french language on them.

[RescueKujo 130]

It doesn't really say other than a safe metal box that was sealed what their storage containment was. Isn't that a bit scary? At least our military uses double doors and thick walled bunkers to store those kinds of weapons.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

At least our military uses double doors and thick walled bunkers to store those kinds of weapons.

Yes...now. Not when they were necessarily in the arsenal or being transported by units on ops.

Also keep in mind that these samples were not huge amounts. The vessels were vials to the size of a pen.

[DOC22 1]

als, The term I have been using for a couple years: ECOLI OCCURS! I don't know why, maybe it's the double vowels?

[Goose 188]

Who does? We are only their main enforcement. That is why we went into Iraq unilaterially without UN sanction or further assistance.

How do they lose that stuff? Unfortunaterly feces happens (again wish I could use the proper word).

You think that is scary? You have any idea of how much Smallpox and Anthrax, including the Soviet made "Super Anthrax" bug the former Soviet Union couldn't account for after its collapse. There were weapons labs in some of the "stan" countries it controlled that had these biological weapons in the equivalent of cat food containers in unlocked regular domestic refrigerators located in deserted buildings. Go figure.

Be glad the UN stuff was Phosgene.

Just for conversation reasons no one really questions that Iraq had weapons. Whether or not they still had them when we invaded will always be the great debate. Personally as a jarhead I know he did in the 90's. He stopped producing (the guy was sadisitc not insane) them. Question is where did he hide or ship them? Perhaps France knows. They do whatever is needed and sell weapons to the highest bidder. That is why much of Iraq's weapons have the french language on them.

I hear ya bro. I was talking more to all those on the left who look to pass the "global test" as Mr. Kerry so poignantly put it.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I like that Doc...lol.

Goose..not beating you brother...you know that.

Mr. Kerry..."global test"....who...what? Oh that's right he's the botox guy that lost.

[RescueKujo 130]

Mr. Kerry..."global test"....who...what? Oh that's right he's the botox guy that lost.

Isn't he Jane Fonda's BFF???

[Goose 188]

And shes best friends with Uncle Ho!

[Guest]

Well as things go Phosgene is probably one of the best case scenarios that could be found in the UN's "Lost and found box". It is about the same as finding viles of chlorine gas. It's something we all deal with as firefighters quite often. Anyone who has been to a supermarket fire where the refrigeration units were involved may have been exposed to phosgene since it is one of the products of combustion of Freon refrigeration gas. Usually detectable by the odor of "freshly mowed hay". As long as SCBA is worn to protect against the hydrogen chloride (HCl) part of it, structural PPE with it's vapor barrier should protect against low level releases. With all of the possible items that the UN has sampled this is probably the one agent that should pose the least concern.

[SgtGumby311 0]

It's pretty ironic, they found something that they weren't looking for, yet, when they were looking for it, they couldn't find it.....

[Goose 188]

Well as things go Phosgene is probably one of the best case scenarios that could be found in the UN's "Lost and found box". It is about the same as finding viles of chlorine gas. It's something we all deal with as firefighters quite often. Anyone who has been to a supermarket fire where the refrigeration units were involved may have been exposed to phosgene since it is one of the products of combustion of Freon refrigeration gas. Usually detectable by the odor of "freshly mowed hay". As long as SCBA is worn to protect against the hydrogen chloride (HCl) part of it, structural PPE with it's vapor barrier should protect against low level releases. With all of the possible items that the UN has sampled this is probably the one agent that should pose the least concern.

Appreciate the facts you posted, thanks. My understanding is that its a pretty archaic weapon that was originally utilized back in WW1. The thing that worried me, is that its heavier than air. So, if it was on an upper floor it could have gotten a number of people sick if it made its way to lower parts of the building. The CDC website has some useful information about Phosgene:

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

Edited August 31, 2007 by Goose

[Guest]

Appreciate the facts you posted, thanks. My understanding is that its a pretty archaic weapon that was originally utilized back in WW1. The thing that worried me, is that its heavier than air. So, if it was on an upper floor it could have gotten a number of people sick if it made its way to lower parts of the building. The CDC website has some useful information about Phosgene:

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

Well like I said phosgene in such small levels would dissipate quickly and really not be an issue unless there was someone standing right over the vials. It has a 2 ppm IDLH value, which means it is dangerous but if somehow that small sample had gotten into say the HVAC system it would be so dispersed it would be more of an irritant than anything else. Like you said it is archaic, in WWI they used it as well as chlorine gas in huge amounts sprayed across the battlefield in order to gain ground during the trench warfare campaign......It did not kill as much as it did incapacitate the enemy. And as the doctrine of war goes 1 downed soldier requires 2 to pull him out. So like I said of all the potential agents they could have found....nerve , blister etc, this is pretty minor. The press just likes to talk it up

[RescueKujo 130]

Appreciate the facts you posted, thanks. My understanding is that its a pretty archaic weapon that was originally utilized back in WW1. The thing that worried me, is that its heavier than air. So, if it was on an upper floor it could have gotten a number of people sick if it made its way to lower parts of the building. The CDC website has some useful information about Phosgene:

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

Rescue,

I also appreciate it. It's been over 20 years since I dealt with this stuff, and while the basics are still in the memory, a lot of it has left the building.

Edited August 31, 2007 by RescueKujo

[Guest]

If you really want to concern yourself with what may be out there, read the book....Biohazard by Ken Alibek. This book was suggested to me by HazMat instructors from FDNY HazMat. It is written by one of the top Russian bio-weapons scientists during the cold war who defected and is now working hand in hand with the US Center for Disease Control (CDC). It is surprising to read how much we underestimated Russia's capabilities during that time. And Alibek states that after the fall of the Soviet Union alot of the Russian scientists went where the money was. Meaning Iran and Iraq. This stuff is still out there. And if the stuff isn't the guys who know how to make it are and they are going to the highest bidder. Scary yes.....but we just have to learn how to deal with it

[Guest]

Can't wait . These are being delivered to the base in my first due. Well just add it to the rest of the bad crap on the list that is stored at Aberdeen Proving Ground Edgewood area.