Any VACS Missing Equiptment?

[bfdlt141 0]

I know in Danbury If the hospital needs to ship out a pt. and they need a back board or splinting if the pt did not come on a board or with a splint. (walk in pt.) They just go to the equipment locker. and take a board or a splint.

Edited August 25, 2007 by bfdlt141

[nycemt728 49]

NYmedic is on point, in NYC, its sort of like a revolving door, you bring a board in, you take one out, doesn't necessarily have to be yours. I've never had a problem w/ this system, however, you should be respectful of where you are: its obvious that Westchester and NJ don't have the same system, so the respectful and most logical thing to do is wait for the piece of equipment!! I have NEVER heard of hospitals mailing stuff back to anybody, its more of throw it out into the bay. I would agree, not really their responsiblity, but a nice courtesy. Bottom line, if you want to hold onto the stuff you paid for, you gotta put in the effort to get it back and ensure it stays w/ you.

[JetPhoto 626]

Beacon Vac is always missing equipment.

It doesn't matter how large you put your name, phone number, paid postage ect. some people just don't care about who it belongs too

[Guest]

===================== "Its the paid guys who take our stuff". Well, vacguy, I'm a "paid guy", also know as a career professional, and I work both in Westchester County as well as NY City. In NY City there is a rotation of backboards amongst all NY City EMS agencies and I have never seen nor taken a backboard that is not in the rotation of NY City agencies. In Westchester, if I leave equiptment at a certain hospital, I only take the equiptment that is labeled by the agency that I work for being that this is the practice in Westchester County. I recommend that you take your foot out of your mouth because it is obstructing your airway thus restricting oxygenation to your brain as demonstrated by your stupid remarks about "paid guys".

its not stupid...u really think its the vollies fault that our backboards end up in the city??? i highly doubt it

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Instead of complaining about losing your STUFF, GO AND GET IT ON TIME. If the ER is not cleaning the stuff anymore than 8HRS after your call would probably be sufficient to get it back. Don't wait 3 days or more to go back to the ER. I know that some of you live far away from some ER's. Designate someone to go and get the stuff. Here is the other problem. People are taking other people's stuff because they may never run into that agency again.

VACGUY are you saying that ALL TRANSCARE EMPLOYEES ARE THIEVES?

Don't put PAID GUYS as strictly the ones Taking equipment. There are probably more VOLLIES taking stuff then PAID guys.

[Guest]

sorry NYMedic, but many of your co-workers are not so scrupulous. Where I work there just aren't a lot boards available at our facility so we usually have to make do with whats left at the hospital. A lot of guys will just take whats clean no matter who it belongs to.

Why do you guys let your stuff sit for so long? Especially patient transfer devices, once they're at the ER, get them off it and get it back. Does WMC manually clear c-spine or do you guys have to wait to get your board back?

sometimes you can wait, sometimes you can't...

[Guest]

Do you have proof of that??? I can only imagine who is feeding you this information. Pitiful !!!

hey, some of the boards are yours...which i do know for a FACT on TWO accounts

...seriously, do you really think i care whether or not you get yours back???

[Guest]

Instead of complaining about losing your STUFF, GO AND GET IT ON TIME. If the ER is not cleaning the stuff anymore than 8HRS after your call would probably be sufficient to get it back. Don't wait 3 days or more to go back to the ER. I know that some of you live far away from some ER's. Designate someone to go and get the stuff. Here is the other problem. People are taking other people's stuff because they may never run into that agency again.

VACGUY are you saying that ALL TRANSCARE EMPLOYEES ARE THIEVES?

Don't put PAID GUYS as strictly the ones Taking equipment. There are probably more VOLLIES taking stuff then PAID guys.

lol

1. of course not ALL, but when you take something that isn't yours...

2. like i said, the reason why VAC boards are in NYC hospitals are parobably not the VAC's fault

[ex-commish 490]

hey, some of the boards are yours...which i do know for a FACT on TWO accounts

...seriously, do you really think i care whether or not you get yours back???

What does this response have to do with you accusing career ems people of stealing boards??? Please enlighten me and the rest of the posters especially those you are accusing...

[20y2 43]

Keep digging yourself into a deeper hole.....

For all intents and purposes backboards and straps are community property, to think otherwise in this day and age is just being naive.

[Guest]

What does this response have to do with you accusing career ems people of stealing boards??? Please enlighten me and the rest of the posters especially those you are accusing...

...i think this is the 3rd or 4th time i had to explain where my point was comming from

read my previous posts...thats my answer...thats the only thing i was referring to. maybe i'll just start another thread, "How do VAC boards end up in NYC?"

[Jybehofd 85]

NYmedic is on point, in NYC, its sort of like a revolving door, you bring a board in, you take one out, doesn't necessarily have to be yours. I've never had a problem w/ this system, however, you should be respectful of where you are: its obvious that Westchester and NJ don't have the same system, so the respectful and most logical thing to do is wait for the piece of equipment!! I have NEVER heard of hospitals mailing stuff back to anybody, its more of throw it out into the bay. I would agree, not really their responsiblity, but a nice courtesy. Bottom line, if you want to hold onto the stuff you paid for, you gotta put in the effort to get it back and ensure it stays w/ you.

This is a good point but the thing is all the boards are marked "NYC EMS" its a rare occation that you see other board at hospitals in the city but you do see NYP and the occational VAC too. Why can't we do something like that here in westchester??? granted it would be complicated to organize but what if the next time a vac bought a board labeled it Westchester or something so if you need a board because you just brought a patient in on one and there was a county board there you can take it without an issue of who's it might be ???

[ny10570 745]

This is a good point but the thing is all the boards are marked "NYC EMS" its a rare occation that you see other board at hospitals in the city but you do see NYP and the occational VAC too. Why can't we do something like that here in westchester??? granted it would be complicated to organize but what if the next time a vac bought a board labeled it Westchester or something so if you need a board because you just brought a patient in on one and there was a county board there you can take it without an issue of who's it might be ???

If it says NYC*EMS then its a 10+ year old board. FDNY boards and equipment are considered dept property and the dept allows agencies to use them because everyone has to work together without worrying about who owns what. There are a few cases of other agencies being caught storing FDNY boards and catching flak for it (the king of the heap was a private hospital with over 200 boards found in a locked storage room in Manhattan).

[Guest partyrock]

Sorry to add to the pile on vacguy, but "sometimes you can wait, sometimes you can't..." doesn't answer anything. With patient transfer equipment, once they're on the hospital stretcher you should have your scoop, reeves, sked, or whatever back. Does WMC manually clear c-spine yet?

[Guest]

For all intents and purposes backboards and straps are community property, to think otherwise in this day and age is just being naive.

About time someone said it. If you bring a board to the ER and leave with a board, what did you lose??? It has been this way for years, just ask some of the old timers.

[ex-commish 490]

...i think this is the 3rd or 4th time i had to explain where my point was comming from

read my previous posts...thats my answer...thats the only thing i was referring to. maybe i'll just start another thread, "How do VAC boards end up in NYC?"

You can start any thread you wish. I don't think it is right to blame one certain group of people as you did. Missing backboards have always been a problem...simpy handle it and move on.

[irishfire2491 24]

I have to admitt some compay dispatcher tell there crew just grab a backboard and go back in service. The only way I found out is when I worked (ESA) I went to check my bus for part 800 and I found a Cortlandt Vac Backboard in the ambulance with the phone number and Straps label with Cortlandt I Went in took the back board and place it in my car and told the boss my bus is not 800 and the back board will not do.

[20y2 43]

I have to admitt some compay dispatcher tell there crew just grab a backboard and go back in service. The only way I found out is when I worked (ESA) I went to check my bus for part 800 and I found a Cortlandt Vac Backboard in the ambulance with the phone number and Straps label with Cortlandt I Went in took the back board and place it in my car and told the boss my bus is not 800 and the back board will not do.

Why not? Is it inferior? I think you do more of a disservice being out of service then worrying whether or not Cortlandt will be able to operate without their own backboard.

Jesus Christ people, get a grip. You probably will NOT be able to get your board and straps right back, so just grab another available one. This is not a situation where there are not enough backboards, this is a situation that you don't want someone else's backboard. Grow up. Have you ever taken a pair or two of gloves from the hospital? Does your squad have it's own sheets, towels and pillowcases? You're making a mountain of a molehill here.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Look. This to me is pretty simple...and I get what irishfire was saying. Although if I was your supervisor, and you told me that...I'd have no problem telling you to clock out take the little board back and have a nice non-paid day doing it.

If there is a clean one there and you have a job pending...take it. Otherwise leave other agencies property alone. Is it really the end of the world either way...hell no there are worse things to worry about. But I can tell you for what the price of some of the boards are going for these days I wouldn't be happy seeing a board off one of my engine's on private company's bus. A VAC...poopie happens (again can't use the time honored saying) and a local will get it back to us. Look at it a little different...if that board was say your...stethoscope would you still say eh? I know I wouldn't not with the scope I use. And not for nothing for my colleagues in the boroughs...sometimes I can't blame you for grabbing what you can, often its better then what you started with from my experiences. LOL.

[irishfire2491 24]

Why not? Is it inferior? I think you do more of a disservice being out of service then worrying whether or not Cortlandt will be able to operate without their own backboard.

Jesus Christ people, get a grip. You probably will NOT be able to get your board and straps right back, so just grab another available one. This is not a situation where there are not enough backboards, this is a situation that you don't want someone else's backboard. Grow up. Have you ever taken a pair or two of gloves from the hospital? Does your squad have it's own sheets, towels and pillowcases? You're making a mountain of a molehill here.

I disagree because how can you garntee that you will get your backboard or other supplies back for the other agency that took it because they decide they needed more then the agency the spent the money to buy it. It every agency took someones eles equipment what is the sence of buying supplies, just have New York State Buy everything for everyone (IT JUST WILL NOT HAPPEN)

[x635 4,066]

I believe it was the author's intent to discuss HOW TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM, rather than throw blame at each other and make unfounded accusation and rumors. Any further posts of that nature will be deleted, and member warned accordingly, as it's not relevant to the topic at hand or this forum's purpose. So cut the nonsense NOW, so we don't have to lock the topic! Be constructive, be respectful, and if you can't be, then don't post!

With that said, this problem has existed since I started in EMS in 1997, and from what I am told- long before that.

This problem is not simple, as there are many different aspects involved. Most of it comes down to equipment shortages-the agencies that don't have enough end up using others to subsitute for their own when they need it, and that starts the cycle.

First, there are automatic backboard washers out there nowadays. I believe every hospital should be required to have one, as these clean the board throroughly, quickly, and effectively, leaving the board sanitized for the next patient- something not always done, especially by the quick turnaround EMS crews.

The reason why Career EMS personel sometimes take VAC boards are because the crew doesn't have a choice. Usually, they have to turn around at the hospital quickly, don't have a chance to get back to "base", which may not have any extra boards, and if the crew is running short a board, then they're definetly going to get a job that requires two spinal immoblizations.

It should be the agency's responsiblty to keep track of their equipment- this includes working with their recieving agencies to solve this problem. One solution is when you leave equipment at the hospital, is to keep a log with dispatch, shift commander, whoever, and do a daily/weekly inventory and pickup. Barcodes help this tremendously, if your agency uses a laptop in the ambulance, there is software available to help with this. If the recieving hospital doesn't have the board when you go looking for it- send them a bill for the equipment. Although it may not get paid, it may bring attention to the fact that we need more cooperation from our recieving hospitals in securing and releasing our equipment. The days of dumping it in the ER bay is over.

Another more radical solution is for all EMS agencies in the county, or the County DES, to provide spinal immobilization equipment. That way, no matter the agency, all of our equipment is interchangeable, there could be a person who's job it would be to keep track of the equipment, clean or repair it, and pickup/redistribute the equipment based on need. Could do it via an easy, internet based computer and barcode system. Kinda like a "Support Services" division or Medical Equipment divison. By working together, we could solve this problem as a whole instead of each agency findinng it's own piecemeal, bandaid solutions. If all agencies got together and chipped in, and got the hospitals and county to chip in possibly, this could be a reality, and actually end up saving us money- and time.

The "It Just Won't Happen" copout annoys me so much. It's that attitude that holds us back. Everybody just being intimidated and complacent. How many people think "How can we make it happen"????????????????

[Goose 188]

Honestly, who cares? If i'm hustling to clear for a job i'll take the first board i see in the closet. Besides, chances are it will be back in that hospital or a hospital utilized by whatever agency before its ever missed. If i have a spare minute during a tour i try to check and see if i can pick up agency boards, but when the going gets tough i'm not going to waste time sorting though 50 boards some of which are covered in clotted blood, hair and god knows what. If someone is that anal about a backboard and other trivial crap, i think they have over stayed their welcome in the EMS world. Essentially, those types are the very ones holding us so damn far back and keeping us behind progressing to the status Fire and PD enjoy.

Edited August 26, 2007 by DOC22

[calhobs 110]

Or you can wait to get your equipment back, PMH usually is very fast about getting a pt off a back board, stay and wait the few minutes extra and you wil get it back. that day. WMC is another story they use to mail equipment back to us, not sure how they do it anymore.

[latemedic39 4]

it was probably said before but i will say it again if you get to hospital and you need a board or straps to be in service for next call grab what is there and go the board you take WILL GET TO A HOSPITAL !!! so quit the whining and do the job !! lol the dirty work happens when you see a board from another agency with the owners name painted over or crossed out that is not cool

[Guest partyrock]

This stuff cracks me up. Wanting your equipment back is whats keeping EMS behind FD and PD. Take over a prisoner from an officer and tell him you'll get his cuffs back to him later, good luck. Try and take my irons from me in structure (unless its embedded in your skull or I'm dead you won't get it). When I was with FDNY*EMS if I couldn't get my boards back and there were none safe for the taking I just went out of service and hightailed it back to the sattion. As a voluntary I do the same thing. Jobs holding, then thats a different story. JUst because you're down one board, get back in service and head back to your station. You guys who are so willing to borrow other agencies equipment, can borrow the keys to you station so we can restock with clean equipment there? Sheets and blankets is a crap comparison because they are provided by the hospitals and not your neighboring vac, they are used with every patient, and not nearly as expensive the equipment being discussed here. There's a cheap simple way to fix this problem. GROW UP. If you leave equipment at the hospital report it to your agency. Then the agency can go down there and quickly retrieve it. I was down at WMC earlier today visiting a friend of mine and decided to find the "dungeon". Its just off the loading dock and not too hard to find. While it is disgusting I was shocked at how much local equipment was there. I saw Empress, Transcare, Pleasntville, Hawthorn, Chappaqua, Harrison, and FDNY (which I'm pretty sure didn't arrive in the back of a red and white bus. If your members aren't responsible enough to report the equipment then just take regular trips with a list of whats missing.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm done now. Good night.

[Remember585 815]

I just don't get one thing. Why is everyone so hell-bent on waiting on their equipment? I am pretty sure that at least 95% of the ambulances around carry more then one set of immobilzation equipment, and have plenty of spare stuff at the station. If the ER is taking too long to give you your stuff back, leave, restock in quarters and have a nice day.

There is nothing we can do to solve the problem of vanishing equipment. Life goes on.

[x129K 1,393]

The main reason these people want THEIR specific gear back is that it is usually a better quality, ie more expensive than what is used by commericial services. If they spent the money on a super duper top of the line head immobilizer, they probably are gonna want it back....and not used on some drug dealer who got capped in the head after ripping someone off for 20 bucks of crack in some "city".

Maybe they should save their money and buy the cheap throw out immobilizer blocks like we used at Empress back in the day.....or towel rollls.......nothing to complain about there....

[Goose 188]

This stuff cracks me up. Wanting your equipment back is whats keeping EMS behind FD and PD. Take over a prisoner from an officer and tell him you'll get his cuffs back to him later, good luck. Try and take my irons from me in structure (unless its embedded in your skull or I'm dead you won't get it). When I was with FDNY*EMS if I couldn't get my boards back and there were none safe for the taking I just went out of service and hightailed it back to the sattion. As a voluntary I do the same thing. Jobs holding, then thats a different story. JUst because you're down one board, get back in service and head back to your station. You guys who are so willing to borrow other agencies equipment, can borrow the keys to you station so we can restock with clean equipment there? Sheets and blankets is a crap comparison because they are provided by the hospitals and not your neighboring vac, they are used with every patient, and not nearly as expensive the equipment being discussed here. There's a cheap simple way to fix this problem. GROW UP. If you leave equipment at the hospital report it to your agency. Then the agency can go down there and quickly retrieve it. I was down at WMC earlier today visiting a friend of mine and decided to find the "dungeon". Its just off the loading dock and not too hard to find. While it is disgusting I was shocked at how much local equipment was there. I saw Empress, Transcare, Pleasntville, Hawthorn, Chappaqua, Harrison, and FDNY (which I'm pretty sure didn't arrive in the back of a red and white bus. If your members aren't responsible enough to report the equipment then just take regular trips with a list of whats missing.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm done now. Good night.

It's about the attitude. Just flip through the pages here and you'll see it. The comment about career people "stealing" equipment, the whiny attitudes and phone calls to supervisors because someone happened to grabbed a head block that said ABCVAC/ABCEMS. It's that general willingness to not work together is what i'm referring to.

Fact is, you bring in 2 patients or were a first unit o/s and sent patients on other ambulances, your down on gear, and you've got a trauma holding, strolling over to the station isn't exactly an option. Especially so in smaller city's and areas, where there is a smaller pool of units to pull from. So who gives a crap if you grab joe shmo's board? That board is likely to end up back at the trauma center you just took it from or hospital before its EVER MISSED. It's not like im taking it home and throwing it up on eBay for personal profit, im using it to get people to the hospital as safely as possible. Thats the end game for all of us, i don't see why a few hundred dollar hunk of standardized plastic should get in the way of that.

Edited August 26, 2007 by Goose

[huzzie59 75]

Just came back from WMC.

There has to be at least 100 boards in the basement.

They are located in the basement of the Main Hospital.

From the main elevators, turn left and follow the hall to the

far corner near the trash exit.

The "dirty room" is in that corner of the basement.

Go in that room.

Can't miss them.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Good job Huzzie!! LOL. All your missing is your map with the "you are here" dot. LOL.

Who remembers the good old days where it seemed like a couple of agencies would use the old dirty storage room closet at Hudson Valley as an equipment storage locker?

Party awesome post as always bro.

Edited August 26, 2007 by alsfirefighter