Why Are We Always Looking For A Bargain With EMS?

[x635 4,066]

With the turmoil EMS is in in the Hudson Valley region, it seems more and more elected officials want to seek out the best bargain they can when it comes to providing EMS, meanwhile, the companies that provide it continue to bleed cash and barely stay alive.

So, why is it that these communities are always looking to get a bargain for such a critical, life saving service? I'm sure these same elected officials don't care about how gluttonous some fire departments are, or how much money their DPW is losing them.

Although EMS is the new kid on the block, we stand shoulder to shoulder with Firefighters and Police Officers. Nobody would ever suggest contracting out for Fire or Police or even DPW, yet even get away with doing it.

I blame ourselves. I don't think EMS does anything proactively, like community education as to what we do. Nor do I think EMS makes a good enough case to justify to the elected officials that we're neccasary. I really think some elected officials truly think it's just a ride to the hospital.

Although there are excellent private companies that provide superior EMS, I don't feel EMS should be provided by for-profit companies. I also don't think that "BLS Interfacility Transports" should be considered Emergency Medical Services. All this does is blur the line for us.

Take Yonkers for example. There's no reason why they can't provide EMS that sets an example and a standard, just like their Fire and Police Departments do (but they get EMS for free, so why would they?). Also, look at Port Chester-Rye-Rye Brook EMS. They cover 3 muncipalties with fully staffed, ALS ambulances. They've progressively grown from a volunteer agency to one of the premier, self sufficient, independent agency EMS systems in Westchester County- pehaps the only one. Also, look at other area systems like Stamford or Greenwich EMS. Boston EMS is a great example. There's a number of different ways to do things, and it's time we bring EMS to the next level NOW instead of dragging it there. Lives are at stake, yet some people think it's their egos that are.

EMS needs to start coming together as a whole, demanding that EMS is provided by the muncipality directly as it's own department, staffed with either full-time civil service employees, or volunteers, or both. Although there may not be enough call volume in some muncipalities to warrant this, there's no reason why communities can't come together to form "EMS Districts", like we have sewer and fire districts.

How come communties don't contract out their DPW? It would seem that it could be done better and cheaper by private contractors, right? (sarcasm)

Maybe we should take a look at the pensions and benefits some of these elected officials get for only a couple of hours of work each week. Maybe we could get money from there?

We live in one of the wealthiest, fastest growing areas of the nation. Compared to other similar parts of the nation, even communities inferior to us, that have EMS, looking comparitevly, EMS around here is a real shame. It's pathetic.

Also, the ego-driven fragmentation of EMS in this area doesn't help things.

In a future post, I'll detail how EMS is provided in some other similar parts of the country, including Los Angeles City Fire Department, where EVERY community has an ambulance, and Los Angeles County Fire Department, who's hybrid Firefighter-Paramedic ALS system, and Private Transport service collaboration makes us look pathetic. The West coast, heck, even the South and Midwest, makes us, look lights years behind.

[SgtGumby311 0]

Is there an EMS union, not affiliated with FD? All of the examples you gave: PD,FD (career) and DPW all have union representation. I am not an advocate for any union, but I'm not aware of a PBA/FOP equivalent in EMS.

[x635 4,066]

Is there an EMS union, not affiliated with FD? All of the examples you gave: PD,FD (career) and DPW all have union representation. I am not an advocate for any union, but I'm not aware of a PBA/FOP equivalent in EMS.

I absoluetly agree, and forgot to mention that's PARTIALLY driving force behind things. Although there are EMS unions, such as the IAEP, they are no where as strong as the IAFF, etc. Also, when you consider employment in commercial EMS, you know how hard it is to get a union into place, even fearing losing your job if they catch you thinking about it. And, in a lot of places, an EMS union doesn't even help much, instead, it adds to the tensions. If EMS was to become municipal, then I'm sure that most employees would be eligible for inclusion in the CSEA, at the least. I know if EMS is a part of an FD, then the EMS employees can become part of the IAFF. In Boston, EMS is part of the Police union

Even so, look at volunteer FD's, still get treated WAY better and more attention then EMS.

EMS employees deserve the same benefits as FF's and Police Officers, like job security (no velcro patch syndrome!) and pensions. They shouldn't have to worry about working at three different agencies to make ends meet. And those who LIKE to work EMS shouldn't have to worry about getting on an FD or PD for a better career, they should be able to stay in EMS and not get burnt out.

No offense to any of our FDNY friends, but I would have loved to see what would have become of NYC*EMS today had they not merged with FDNY in 1996. I wonder if they would be one of the premier independent EMS systems (again, like Boston EMS, also run by the H&H) ?

[RescueKujo 130]

Seth,

Rather than this being a regional or local problem, I believe this is a country wide problem. When the White paper was published in the late 60's, it tasked local county governments to run EMS. I don't think they still, after 30 years, know what to do with it. Many have created an EMS agency, others run it under Health and Human Services, but almost all will not fund it as it needs it. And once again, it is the politician's contituents suffer.

Edited August 22, 2007 by RescueKujo

[calhobs 110]

We have had a similiar discussion before, and I stand by what I said there now, Until EMS can stand as one, and many stop the me me me attiude there will never be change. I have worked union, non union, and volley, the one big connection is there is really no unity. There are many people that just want a title and dont care about any thing else. Another big issue is the revolving door issue, It is hard to maintain a good working relationship with someone when you are working with a new partner every 2 weeks.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I don't know how this is going to sound so don't take offense to any of it. WITH PD/FD whether PAID or VOLLEY the COMMUNITY knows about it. If you asked a common person in this COUNTY who their ambulance provider was they would look at you like you had two heads.

There are too many COMPANIES and/or VOLUNTEER AMBULANCES out there. I guess the best example would be RYE/PORTCHESTER/RYE BROOK. Look around Westchester and tell me any other AGENCY whether it be Village/Town/Hamlet or whatever does this? 3 Towns combined into ONE. That is the way all these LITTLE TOWNS should be. Does anyone know how many calls PC/RB/R do? How many do they miss to MUTUAL AID? I would like to see those numbers. Nobody is going to take EMS seriously when they don't know what ambulance covers them. They definitely won't take them seriously when they know that they can't get an ambulance when the need it.

On to the UNION. I am for any EMS UNION. Private company OWNERS can screw with employees whenever they want with little to no fight from the EMPLOYEES. Sure they can sue but that costs $$ and EMS isn't paying all that much that. I hate that. Almost like this site. NO OFFENSE SETH but if you don't like what somebody is saying you close and pull the post and most recentley took some points from people. You know what I am getting at. A UNION brings STABLILITY to a COMPANY.

Now here is my biggest issue. I don't know how many PAID or VOLUNTEER AGENCIES there are in WESTCHESTER but the image that EMS portrays is DISGUSTING. MESSY UNIFORMS with SHIRTS OUT OF PANTS. Some people wear uniforms some wear sweats or jeans. That goes more for VOLLEYS more than then anything. I am not saying that every COP or FIREMAN has the best image but EMS is nowhere near that. SHAVE, LOSE SOME WEIGHT and WEAR A UNIFORM THAT IS CLEAN AND FITS YOU RIGHT AND EMS MIGHT START GETTING THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE.

[MoFire390 118]

I absoluetly agree, and forgot to mention that's PARTIALLY driving force behind things. Although there are EMS unions, such as the IAEP, they are no where as strong as the IAFF, etc. Also, when you consider employment in commercial EMS, you know how hard it is to get a union into place, even fearing losing your job if they catch you thinking about it. And, in a lot of places, an EMS union doesn't even help much, instead, it adds to the tensions. If EMS was to become municipal, then I'm sure that most employees would be eligible for inclusion in the CSEA, at the least. I know if EMS is a part of an FD, then the EMS employees can become part of the IAFF. In Boston, EMS is part of the Police union

Even so, look at volunteer FD's, still get treated WAY better and more attention then EMS.

EMS employees deserve the same benefits as FF's and Police Officers, like job security (no velcro patch syndrome!) and pensions. They shouldn't have to worry about working at three different agencies to make ends meet. And those who LIKE to work EMS shouldn't have to worry about getting on an FD or PD for a better career, they should be able to stay in EMS and not get burnt out.

No offense to any of our FDNY friends, but I would have loved to see what would have become of NYC*EMS today had they not merged with FDNY in 1996. I wonder if they would be one of the premier independent EMS systems (again, like Boston EMS, also run by the H&H) ?

Doesn't Boston FD, EMS, and PD run on the same EMS job?

[Guest partyrock]

No offense to any of our FDNY friends, but I would have loved to see what would have become of NYC*EMS today had they not merged with FDNY in 1996. I wonder if they would be one of the premier independent EMS systems (again, like Boston EMS, also run by the H&H) ?

NYC*EMS was going no where fast in 1996. I'm not saying the FD was the right decision, bu something had to be done. The stories from back then are ridiculous, 15 to 20 minute waits for buses for serious life threats were not uncommon. If there was somethign "good" going on somewhere else then whole areas would be without coverage while everyone was buffing it. On top of that there just weren't enough buses to go around. Hour long waits for many of the more minor calls on bad days. The merger has fallen badly behind what was promised, but things have improved for everyone. Over the last 10 years it seem to be headed in the right direction, but we'll see what happens. Merging with PD would have possibly been worse. While they work a lot more with PD NYPD as an agency has almost no patient care experience. On the fire side first aid and patient care was all ready a common occurance at MVA's, fires, and any other emergency we would get called out on. People knew that when you pull the ERS box the FD comes every time and comes quick.

[EMS Solutions 0]

The best bargain is the Volunteer. Why buy the cow, when the milk is free?

When people stop volunteering, townships, counties etc will pay what they need to provide this service to the tax payers.

Tax payers will know who is the EMS provider since they will be paying for it.

[Remember585 815]

The best I could come up with for oneeye is this. (911 municipal agencies, not transports)

Still All-Volunteer: 21 VACs (Or FD/EMS)

VAC w/ Paid Staff: 13 Agencies

Paid Services: 4

If it wasn't for the relatively die-hard volunteers in some agenices, paid staffing would be in all of them. As for those (like mine) that barely cover anything, it's way past time to come up with a solution.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

The best bargain is the Volunteer. Why buy the cow, when the milk is free?

When people stop volunteering, townships, counties etc will pay what they need to provide this service to the tax payers.

Tax payers will know who is the EMS provider since they will be paying for it.

But the MILK is sometimes SPOILED waiting for VOLUNTEERS. At least with the PAID the MILK is fresh.

It is all a matter of time. Why don't you just concede and share with the PAID PERSONELLE person? You can still VOLUNTEER if you want to, but at least the COMMUNITY will get an AMBULANCE when they need it.

[MerlinMedic 5]

Why do we always go with the cheapest? It is the government way. The military always goes with the low bidder, so do the rest of our governments, unless they can show that the bid is unreasonable.

The towns in Dutches County, as is Putnam County, now finding out how much EMS costs. Ulster is seeing a bit of this too, with the western towns (Kerhonkston etc.) now losing ALS because it isn't free.

But, before we go blaming our politicians too much, recall this: how many of us filled out our Star Tax form to get 5% off of our property taxes?