Beer Banned in Albany, N.Y. Firehouses

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Beer Banned in Albany, N.Y. Firehouses

Updated: 08-17-2007 04:24:47 PM

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By KENNETH C. CROWE II Staff Writer

The Times Union (Albany, New York)

RENSSELAER - A century-old tradition of firefighters drinking beer in the city's firehouses died Wednesday night when the Common Council voted 6 to 1 to ban alcohol on city property due to safety and liability issues.

The action came in response to the State Liquor Authority finding beer was sold without a license in two of the three city firehouses during a check in July. The inspections were made after residents complained.

"We know what the tradition has been in this city," said Councilwoman Pat Jackson, who sponsored the resolution. "I'm very sorry to have to do this."

Councilman William Lithgow recalled his days as a volunteer when a beer was enjoyed in the social rooms. "We had the soda machines going with the beer bottles in the machines," Lithgow said. "But that was a different time. If we're going to be a first-class city, we're going to have to change our culture."

About 50 people attended the meeting at which firefighters spoke for and against the resolution.

Assistant Fire Chief Michael Stammel, who represents the city on the Rensselaer County Legislature, called the move a knee-jerk reaction.

Stammel said the city is telling its volunteers, "We're not going to offer you anything any more." He unsuccessfully urged the council to hold a hearing.

The Rensselaer City Fire Department uses both paid and volunteer personnel. Volunteers maintain friction between the paid personnel and the volunteers played a role in the SLA's inspection. The social areas are used by volunteers.

Capt. James Hammond of Engine 2 said drinking is part of socializing for the volunteers. Capt. Robert Fink of Engine 4 supported the council. "As a taxpayer, please take the alcohol from the firehouses," Fink said.

Daniel and Margaret Zukowski told the council they contacted the SLA. Margaret Zukowski, who ran unsuccessfully for the council two years ago, said she had concerns about people leaving the firehouses and driving after drinking.

Councilwoman Scarlet Palermo cast the only vote against the resolution, saying it was politically motivated.

Voting for the ban were Jackson, Lithgow, Albertine Felts, Lillian Dominski, Richard Mooney and Council President Charles Hall. Absent were Kimberli Conger, Dominick Tagliento and Brian Stall.

Kenneth C. Crowe II can be reached at 454-5084 or by e-mail at kcrowe@timesunion.com

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Hopefully to a firehouse near you....and me!!

[x635 4,066]

It really should be a state law.

I mean, could you imagine drinking in a Police Station?

If firehouses want to be social clubs, then they can't be firehouses. Let them start a fraternal orginization and get themselves a hall or something that is completly seperate and remote from the firehouse.

[Danger 160]

It really should be a state law.

I mean, could you imagine drinking in a Police Station?

If firehouses want to be social clubs, then they can't be firehouses. Let them start a fraternal orginization and get themselves a hall or something that is completly seperate and remote from the firehouse.

Maybe they can call it XYZ Volunteer Drinking and Parade Company (or XVDPC for short) and then I can worry about being a firefighter.

[irishfire2491 24]

Hopefully to a firehouse near you....and me!!

I agree 100% with you tom

New York State Should do a Vote and BANND Alochol from all emergency buildings

[Monty 35]

From the Troy Record. I thought this was a well written piece. I did think that if they had spoken to the Chiefs at some of the departments, they could have presented themselves in a more professional way, other than essentially 'no comment'.

08/20/2007

Booze and firefighting a deadly mix??

By: James V. Franco , The Record

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Putting a buck into a vending machine to grab a cold beer at the firehouse after training or a call has been going on as long as there have been volunteers at fire departments. But across the country that tradition is getting a second look with growing liability concerns and some high-profile mishaps involving alcohol.

On Wednesday, the city of Rensselaer, in a controversial yet overwhelming 6-1 vote, banned all alcohol from city-owned buildings including the three fire stations.

Rensselaer is unique in that the city owns the fire stations. Most volunteer departments are non-profit organizations that own their own buildings. And further blurring the lines in Rensselaer is a mix of volunteer firefighters and city-paid emergency staffers, working side by side.

The Rensselaer example stands out locally, but there are discussions nationwide to ban booze in all firehouses. Volunteer firehouses provide what many see as opposite functions - a place to hang out and socialize and the community's hub of public safety.

In addition, most volunteer departments are funded by public money to one degree or another, either by having the authority to tax residents within a district or by contracts with the municipality or through the municipality's general fund.

It is understandable taxpayers would be skeptical, but proponents claim the social functions help with recruiting and work to build a sense of camaraderie within the ranks.

Taking away the social setting, or at least the alcohol, is something not many want to talk about.

The chief at Shaker Road-Loudonville Fire Department would not comment on whether they allow drinking at the station and then would not comment on the issue at all before hanging up.

In Wynantskill, said Kevin Harrington, a one-time volunteer and Rensselaer County legislator on the Public Safety Committee, there is an upstairs and a downstairs. Upstairs is where they have their meetings, hang out, talk, watch television, shoot darts and have a drink if they so choose. Downstairs is where the actual duties of firefighting take place. There are strict rules in place to keep the two separate but, he said, both play an integral role in the life of a volunteer.

"After a drill night or a call, people may hang out for a while and talk or watch the Yankee game. It's a bonding type thing," he said. "Once, we had a fatal accident, and it was good to have a place for the guys to decompress, to talk about what just happened. It is probably not the AMA way to do things, and I would lose an argument with a psychologist as to its effectiveness, but we are talking real life here."

Only a few people have keys to the taps and the upstairs is only open to members and their guests. The beverages are sold at or near cost with what little proceeds they generate going back to the members. Nobody can answer a call after having even one alcoholic beverage and, according to the department's bylaws, if a call does come in, the bar immediately shuts down.

And, unlike Rensselaer, Wynantskill does have a liquor license. The state Liquor Authority raided two of the three fire houses in Rensselaer and advised them to stop selling beer.

In Poestenkill, the fire department has a fairly sophisticated Web site promoting their facilities for birthday parties, wedding receptions and other events. Since Poestenkill does not have a district with the authority to tax residents, a good percentage of its budget comes from renting the hall and manning the events with volunteer firefighters and the ladies auxiliary.

At Brunswick Fire Co. 1, it does not have a liquor license and does not purchase alcohol for the members unless there is a company-sponsored event, like a Christmas or New Years Eve party, said President Mark Balistreri, a 16-year veteran. Presently members are allowed to bring their own alcohol to the firehouse, he said, but there is talk of changing that policy, too.

If alcohol is consumed, he said, the department does offer free rides home through Netters Safe Ride program, a service started by a widower whose wife died after getting hit by a drunk driver. The program is named in her memory.

Generally, he said, he does not have an opinion on whether or not firehouses should allow drinking but acknowledged times are changing.

"We are talking to the department attorney to see what the issues are and make sure we are not opening ourselves up to any unnecessary liability," he said. "I think over the years people have become more aware of how dangerous drinking and driving is and it has gotten to the point that people are making better choices."

The debate to allow or ban alcohol in firehouses is going on across the country. After a New Jersey volunteer got into an accident en route to a fire and was determined to be intoxicated, there was talk of banning booze in firehouses across the state, but instead, strict rules were put in place.

In Wyoming, after two separate drunk-driving incidents by volunteers, one which killed a 16-year-old volunteer passenger, the governor debated taking action statewide. Eliminating alcohol from firehouses is being talked about in Connecticut and Kentucky as well.

"It is a different day and age today," said Firehouse Magazine Editor Harvey Eisner, a former chief. "Now because of the consequences there are many more restrictions and many more safety precautions and much more liability in today's world."

Eisner, a volunteer chief for 12 years in Tenafly, N.J., said eventually he sees all fire departments as alcohol free and does not see it as causing a problem recruiting and retaining members.

"If you want to be serious about the firefighting profession then it is not going to make a difference," he said.

He said he considers volunteers as professional firefighters.

"When I was chief, I made a conscious decision not to drink when I was on duty, which was 24 hours a day. I did not want the responsibility of something happening when I was in charge."

[firecapt32 282]

I do love the line "city paid emergency staffers" its a well written article. we should be moving foward in the 21st century. firefighting is a dangerous field of work--lets not take chances with our lives and the lives of other people.

[Guest]

firefighters like to say "if you can't stand the heat, become a cop."

i say to the firefighters who drink in there firehouses...if you wanna be social and get drunk... join the lions club!

[fireboy 6]

well maybe it is a good thing because ive talk to some people and they think that all volunteers do is drink, which is NOT true so it might be for the best

[27east 19]

Why is this even so important? Alcohol has no place anywhere in a firehouse, in a social room, on different floors whatever.

lad12derff is right on with his topic.

[Monty 35]

Why is this even so important? Alcohol has no place anywhere in a firehouse, in a social room, on different floors whatever.

lad12derff is right on with his topic.

Mmmmm, what about that thing that every one keeps talking about .... Tradition. It's used as an excuse for all sorts of things - including this topic.

[Oswegowind 17]

No need for booze in the fire house. That is why they made bars! and I am not talking about the wooden thing in the firehouse!

[Guest]

No need for booze in the fire house. That is why they made bars! and I am not talking about the wooden thing in the firehouse!

We are a service steeped in tradition, unfortunately, not all of it is good. We all need to re-think some of our traditions and eliminate some of the negative ones. Alcohol impairs judgement, slows down reaction time.......need I go on? One thing alcohol does not do....make you a better firefighter.

[Guest]

We are a service steeped in tradition, unfortunately, not all of it is good. We all need to re-think some of our traditions and eliminate some of the negative ones. Alcohol impairs judgement, slows down reaction time.......need I go on? One thing alcohol does not do....make you a better firefighter.

a question is, will the vollie firefighters show up anymore?? i know not everyone drinks in the firehouse, but what about the guys who go to the firehouse after work for have a beer or 2, or 3, or 4 , or 5, or 10 and socialize...even before they go home to their families...

will they show up anymore???

Those guys are generally quite experienced.

tradition is tradition, and people don't like change, but are the alcohol induced firefighters needed that much that beer takes precedence over safety and firefighting?

Commissioners, board of directors and officers must step up to the plate, even before the state (hopefully) takes action and before the media gobbles this one up...seriously it's only a matter of time.

Edited September 27, 2007 by vacguy

[Bunkers 0]

If you want to drink beers with the boys, go join the Elks Club!

haha

(everyone knows who I'm making fun of)