FireFighter I NOT AVAILABLE

[Alfons0x66 0]

Due to New York's switch to the FireFighter I program, there is a serious lack of training being offered. The switch took place with no available instructors certified to teach the class in West. county. How do people feel about not being able to take their training, as new firefighters or as old looking to refresh. Also, does anyone know where there are other FFI classes being offered in or around WEST..

[TRUCK6018 50]

There has been two FFI postings in the last week or so. The problem isn't just the availibility of courses and instructors (which is improving). The other problem is a maximum cut off of 20 students per class.

Because of the limited class size, when the courses are posted, they fill up almost instantly. One of the last classes filled within 4 hours!

The county is now trying something new to take care of that problem. Registration for classes won't start untill a week after the announcement is made. This will give all of the departments a fair shake to get students registered.

Anyone can add your email to the county's list to receive the notices. The link is on the DES website or click here: http://list.westchestergov.com/listsubscri...mssubscribe.asp

After you get the announcment, talk to you chief to register you.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Well discussed 6018. I don't know exactly where you got your info from, but there are several instructors in the county that can deliver the new firefighter series classes. The fact that the classes are filling are a compliment to you, the instructors delivering the material, and the curriculum itself. This is actually not abnormal, as a young volunteer in Virginia it is not uncommon to have to wait upwards of 6 months or even longer to get a FF I in your area. And Virginia's FF I is 135 hours, not the 78 NY went to. The smaller class sizes, also are in place to improve the training being given. This ensures proper instructor to student ratio, as well as no more standing around bluffing off. If you can't perform the skills you can't be a firefighter. Improves safety for all, and doesn't disrespect those of us who are there to learn and busting our humps to learn.

Let's additionally add the fact that there is plenty to learn in the fire service prior to becoming a certified firefighter. Valuable things about department operations, SOG's and policies. The finer points that will make a good firefighter, into a great one, or an excellent officer revolve around this knowledge and attention to detail. Also as far as older FF's looking to refresh. There are still several other courses around to accomplish this and if you looked at the overall numbers for a year I'm willing to bet the stats wouldn't support that statement.

The courses will come, with change comes positives and negatives. And as far as the new firefighter series, many of the positives outweigh the negatives like extended time waiting for a course.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Another plus with the current scheduling is the FFI classes are being given at varying times.

Example: In the past classes were limited for the most part to week nights only.

Since the summer, there have been week long summer classes (2 consecutive weeks, you're done!). Varying week nights and most recently all weekend (Sat and Sun) classes.

If the county keeps up this type of schedualing, there should be little reason that people can fit one in their schedule.

[firecapt32 282]

I cant aggree more with member 84 since the firefighter 1 courses started there have been at least 7 classes taught in the County.

One problem is that the Chiefs are useing the wrong forms to get their members into the classes, and the fact that all those taking ff1 must have had a mask fit and a physical and are capable of useing a scba.

The Instructors are under the State authorization and are limited by OFPC to 20 in the class.

[TRUCK6018 50]

One problem is that the Chiefs are useing the wrong forms to get their members into the classes, and the fact that all those taking ff1 must have had a mask fit and a physical  and are capable of useing a scba.

There are no forms to speak of to register members. The county encourages it be done via internet, however, fax is acceptable.

The permission slips that the chiefs fill out are brand new. Plus there are two different slips. One for courses utilizing SCBA's (FFI, FF2, etc.) and another for the rest of the courses.

[firecapt32 282]

The County just authorized another 2 ff1 classes to be completed as soon as possible so look for them on line im sure they will fill up fast

[firecapt32 282]

Westchester County has had the most ff1 classes in the State of New York 8 since april one copme counties havent had any ff1 classes

just to let you know whats going on in the State.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Yup, #'s don't lie.

Gotta keep in mind gang, we attempt to make firefighters, not robots.

[Remember585 815]

You would think with such a high demand for the FF 1 series in Westchester, that the OFPC may look into providing the County with some additional funding to meet or come close to meeting the demands. We can get all kinds of money for WMD training, but we need to have the "basics" before we can move on....

By the way, the class enrollment limits SUCK! Its too bad they can't beef it up to 24-30 students.

WCDES Training and the CFIs are doing a great job, but keeping up with new standards is never easy...

[RES20CUE 40]

John,

The limit of 20 is there for the students.

Just like in a normal everyday classroom, if there are more than 20, students can "hide" and it's hard for the instructors to keep track of them.

Sure it's easy to have 40 students in a classroom setting class, but how do we control and ensure that each student is learning and practicing their skills?

I'd rather have 20 proficient firefighters, than 40 firefighters with FFI certificates that can't tie their own shoes!

There already have been 8 FFI courses this year in Westchester and 3 more starting this month, that's 220 new Firefighters for Westchester.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

And on another note, other then recent developments, generally the funding has been fine in regards to Firefighter I, II and other what (and I'm sure could be debated) could be called "bread and butter" fire service courses. We often have plenty of alloted hours for state sponsored courses. Its not always as simple as saying, "OK, I'm, we're gonna do a firefighter I class." Lets keep in mind that all the SFI/CFI's have fulltime occupations within the fire service, law enforcement, corrections, etc. There does take some time in planning out a schedule for the class and the state requires that it be submitted for approval no less then 21 days prior to the beginning date.

The last thing I would like to throw out there as far student levels, is my colleague hit it on the head as far as why the #20, which is normal for other state curriculums as well. But also, it gets frustrating to hear some say there isn't enough training, especially from some depts. who have chronic no shows, or students whom don't finish. That costs another person a seat whom may have finished. In addtion, again I have to stress, that firefighter I delivers a "combat ready" firefighter, the dept. is supposed to fine tune and imbed its SOG's, local policies and procedures and guide them into the experience needed for FF II and to become self sufficient, many of the basics not requiring interior activities should and can occur while that person is awaiting initial training. We have some of the best experienced, knowledgable and motivated SFI's and CFI's in the state and they all work hard to give you what you want on a certification and department level when at the FTC performing drills. Believe it or not, the county is fairly supportive of FF training, which shows in the amount of CFI's we have, the amount of department training daily which requires often several at one time, and the upgrades going on. We are all fighting for dollars in a sluggish economy, it has gotten better and many of us are working to give all of you the best possible training, from the instructors, to the guys in the office, to our leadership at the county level.

See ya' in a classroom!

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

I know this may sound stupid, but I do not know everything about Westchester County since I moved out of the area a long time ago, but here is my $.02 worth. Is there any reason why a dept or company in the county cannot sponsor or hold their own FF1 class ? Take for instance here in CT. the CFA only teaches the FF1 at the recruit level [career depts] , each volunteer dept then has two ways of holding a ff1 class, first contract with the state or seek out certified instructors in the area who would teach the class at those depts. There is a cost, usually dpending upon the class size $ 300 to $ 500 Usually a dept will send out letters and get students from 4-6 dept.s to take the class . Myself and the instructors in my town run about two FF1''s and a FF2 class yearly in the region . I guess then my next question would be , is there a level of certification for instructor ? Because it sounds like the pool of instructors is very small. In the region here, I can pull together 21 instructors from 5 towns. By the way 16-20 students are the best size, over 20 , you loose focus of the students . Plus when you do practicals, you set up teams of 4, the job based testing we do in CT. is based on 4 ff's .

I see a lot of frustration with the system in place as it is today from the post I see. Time will make the sytem better. But as some one else said and not exactly sure of the quote, but being a ff1 does not make you the great know it all firefighter. Time, independent trainig and expierence make the firefighter.

Again, not tryin to knock any one or system or policy. Just my observation.

[firecapt32 282]

The system is working just fine 10 firefighter 1 classes since April 1 2004 no county in the State has even half that many. We are running day classes, night classes, weekend classes, we are doing what ever possible to get the firefighters i

westchester trained to the NYS standard.

Nov we had a National firefighter 1 test. Between the SFI's and the CFI's ther are over 15 instructors. The State SFI'S are limited to State OFPC approval for the courses but the CFI'S can get aproval because they are delivering the course as CFI'S and the County is paying them.

So if you need more courses I'd suggest letting your County Legislators know espically now that its budget time I'm sure they will listen to your concerns.