Would This Type Of Water Supply Vehicle Work In Our Area?

[x635 4,066]

Seems like an interesting concept for a tanker/engine. I'm sure some communities could make good use of a concept like this, but will we ever see it in this area?

Could have a variety of applications, including use during water main breaks and response to commercial or heavy residential areas without hydrants, or large brush fires.

http://www.hoopieworld.com/images/incident...lover%20(2).JPG

[Guest]

Might be a bit difficult to naviagte in certain areas around here. Nice rig however.

[ja3kfd 34]

Seth That would be a Great buy for the COUNTY, all the times Lower Westchester has called for Tankers to Stand by when there are Broken Water Mains, this would be Great , Than have Smaller ones come in and Refill if they are being used. Might be tight in some areas but I am sure with a Little Thought you could stage them away and Have a Pumper draft from them and Pump to the scene. I think a win situation all the way around.

[x129K 1,393]

it would be great, however, getting a competent, QUALIFIED driver may be a challenge....

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I believe they are more popular down south, particulary in Texas. As someone pointed out getting competent drives when finding ones for the apparatus we have now would be a chore.

On a side note...why is it often always said that it would be a great buy "for the county." Even with the PM of water systems, water main breaks and so on its still the municipalities responsibility to provide water for public use and suppression if needed. Seems that when it comes to some aspects there are lot of those whom want the county to step in and then when its to get involved in operational issues and common sense...then its "you can't tell us what to do."

[Guest]

Jeez _ Um!!

Mattydales on a big rig.

Talk about the engine leaving no room for the truck.....

[JBE 328]

How fast can you fill the tank?? How many residential areas in Westchester are without proper water supply?? How many areas in Westchester are that remote or brush laden that you would need a rig that large?? I think the cost of it would outweigh the need of it.

[x635 4,066]

How fast can you fill the tank?? How many residential areas in Westchester are without proper water supply?? How many areas in Westchester are that remote or brush laden that you would need a rig that large?? I think the cost of it would outweigh the need of it.

With this kind of tanker, t's not about how fast you can fill the tank per say, it's about how much water you have immediately available on intitial attack.

Take Bedford for example. They have multi-million dollar homes within their jurisdiction. Sure, they are surrounded by departments with tankers, but what if they are all out at another fire? Or, they're delayed. The fire spreads. You roll up with this, you have a better chance on nipping the fire before it can spread out of control.

And what if there's a drought season, and very dry brush? The fuels there, these houses are surrounded by brush and forest.

Now, I'm not advocating tractor-trailer tankers for everyone, but with the size of some of the new tankers being delivered out there nowadays, this concept isn't too far fetched.

And, how much would this apparatus cost versus installing and maintaning a wet-hydrant system in these areas?

Just things to ponder.

[Ladder44 73]

ha they should come up with a tiller type tanker for those tight situations but thatsproboly over the top

[ja3kfd 34]

What I was Thinking about or am saying is they are not needed often why not have the County buy 2 or 3 of them, they do not have to be new there are plenty of used milk, oil, gas tankers, which already have baffles in them we just need a tractor, which the county has also, do some alterations,to them and there you go.

Yes qualified drivers to get out there, but if you have tankers running to get water have them re filling it. A not too many years back I remember there being a water shortage in Westchester and plenty of Tankers sitting in DPW yards saying Water Supply not in Westchester on the side of them.

As well Maybe it is time to make everyone that drives Fire Trucks have CDL s ( but we have discussed that to death before)

[ja3kfd 34]

How fast can you fill the tank?? How many residential areas in Westchester are without proper water supply?? How many areas in Westchester are that remote or brush laden that you would need a rig that large?? I think the cost of it would outweigh the need of it.

jbe

Pleasantville, Pocantico Hills, Archville, Katonah, Bedford Hills Bedford Banksville Armonk South Salem Goldens Bridge Vista Croton Falls Yorktown Croton Millwood Somers Pound Ridge all have Tankers, Yes some of them have some hydrants.

What is meant by "proper water supply" ?

The cost would be maybe equall to what 1 house cost in any of these communites.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

there are plenty of used milk, oil, gas tankers, which already have baffles in them

Ja3kfd...I'm not discounting you at all bro...I was being more pointed at some others out there in reader land. Sorry if it did seem directed to you.

Also in regards to the quote above...this is exactly why there are many of the tanker accidents we have nationwide. Baffles tend to be vehicle specific, meaning a vehicle designed to carry oil will have different baffles then one for water.

In addition many tanker suspensions are designed for the weight of the fluid being carried as well.

Water: Approx. 8.5 lbs/gal. (Milk is about the same)

Fuel Oil: Approx. 7.2 lbs/gal.

Many things must be taken into consideration before utilizing another vehicle carrier for just water.

Not to mention again...storage, maintenance costs, and operators for the vehicle.

Take Bedford for example. They have multi-million dollar homes within their jurisdiction. Sure, they are surrounded by departments with tankers, but what if they are all out at another fire? Or, they're delayed. The fire spreads. You roll up with this, you have a better chance on nipping the fire before it can spread out of control.

Good concept Seth...but again in my experience your first 2 minutes dictates your next 20 minutes. You should pretty much know in these rural environments that if your initial 1000 gal booster tank on the attack engine isn't going to extinguish it you're gonna need water supply. Multi-million or not...first priority is life safety...initial water application should be dedicated to that first. Incident stabilization...reference above...unless it is that far gone and then it comes down to exposure protection. If there is a big enough incident going on that tanker useage is an issue then back filling should be there already or the mutual aid plan may need to be evaluated to not strip the entire immediate area.

[ja3kfd 34]

Als I was not offended by that.

I have discussed this before with plenty of people up here in Northen Westchester. I feel it is something that should be done even if they could some how talk to all the pool water companies and have them install a 5" dischage on there Tankers and we could call them and get them to the scene so we could draft out of them. Some of these pool water companies could beat some mutual aid Tankers to the scene.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Ja3KFD...cool bro..just wanted to make sure brother.

The one thing to remember is that even with 5" connections you will not be able to draft out of them without the use of hard suction. Not to mention its not always what the adapter on the end is...its the plumbing leading to it. There are a lot of little things we tend to do ourselves to reduce our GPM capabilities when it comes to adapters, intake sizes and one of the big ones is the use of strainers when they are not really needed. If using these apparatus say with 5" with Storze connections, it would be a nurse tanker operation and gravity fed unless there was a small pump on the tanker or dropped in a tank.

Good forward thinking and I hope you can find a way to make it work for your area. Of course with my luck, the pool company would have just made a delivery and be bone dry...lol. I guess the tricky part would be setting up an agreement to pay for the water. Rarely are they getting it anywhere from free if they are filling up off a water system. Where I work they have a hydrant they fill from and there is a meter on it for reimbursement to the municipality.

[ja3kfd 34]

Yes I know about having to draft out of Tanker with Hard Suction we had to do it with BHFD with there old Tanker.

Also for the forseeable future I can not see any one Department around here in Northern Westchester buying one for them selves.

The one Company I am thinking of in our area has there own Water Supply and quite a few Tankers, I also was not thinking of every fire call but just extreme situations.

[Turborich 12]

OK..OK.. I'll tell ya what... why don't you guys just sell the Tech Rescue truck and Utility to Arlington and then with that money you guys can go and buy your big-a** tanker trucks mmmmk

... Whatever figured I'd give it a try.....

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Danbury, CT used something similar to this a few years back when they had a pool truck catch fire in front of the Federal Correctional Institution. Nejame and Sons Pool company brought another tanker truck filled with water to supply the engine companies with water, as I believe that area is not covered by hydrants. A nice idea, but it seems alittle impractical... Tractor trailers are hard to manuever on New England backroads... Down South/out West is a different story. Flat land, wide open spaces make a tractor trailer considerably more easy to manuever. As far as a county operated tanker? I don't see that happening, you would probably only use it 2-3 times a year, I can't see that justifying maintenance and insurance costs... I know that in NY you don't need a CDL or any special license for driving a firetruck, but in CT you either need the "Q" endorsement on your Class D license or a CDL... but even then you don't have to have a Class A tractor-trailer license to drive rigs, so its alot of training for something that isn't really justified, at least not IMHO.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Hey Sage,

I think CT DMV would still require a Class A license for this type of unit even if a tractor / trailer combo tanker truck is considered a fire truck. The "Q" endorsement (formerly a restriction) is a weight class issue and does not include tandems. They may also require a hazmat endorsement do to the amount of liquid carried in the tank as well. I'll look it up though.

Having a tandem tanker truck like this as a first in water supply is a definite plus for the fire service but as many said how hard would it be to fit the truck down some old streets.

[Capejake72 8]

we have units like that here, 1 per Forestry District (3-5 counties) it's stainless steel, so i can be used for potable water as well as water supplies for firefighting, but it's not something we roll regularly. on the last laarge brush fire I was on, a commercial pool supplier rolled up in his semi-tanker and offered it as a water supply to the fire departments, 8,000 gallons goes a long ways in a non hydrant district, esp when the local FD had only 1 water tanker of its own ,

a rig like this is best suited for nurse tanker, set up your dump tanks around it, let it draft out of them to keep itself topped off, and have it supply engines or refill brush trucks, or else set it up as the fill point on a tanker shuttle, something like this is too big and takes too long to fill to make it work well in a water shuttle system

also i would question putting the pump on the tractor like this, unless you plan on disconnecting it to use the pump elsewhere, what if the tractor is OOS for maintenance? then you have no pump, any semi tractor can pull a tanker, but i hate dedicating one unit like that, put a prime mover and 1000gpm pump on the tanker itself, and you have a stand alone water supply unit, then you can use the road tractor to move the tanker, or other assets (decon rigs, collapse rigs, equipment trailer, etc.)

http://www.fl-dof.com/wildfire/equipment/water_tanks.html

Edited August 11, 2007 by Capejake72

[Guest]

It would seem that for that initial response it might help until more tankers showed up, but once it's empty of its original water, it would be just as useful as a porta-pond, which are already available. How often would something like this show up around here before two or three tankers would be on scene with a porta-pond set up?

[SteveOFD 176]

Fron a previous thread on Yonkers upcoming deliveries:

From my awesome source (many of us on here thank you!):

City Of Yonkers Fire-Rescue upcoming apparatus delivery schedule for the next 6 months:

2 - 75' Mid mount American LaFrance Tower Ladders

2 - American LaFrance Pumpers

1 - Mack Granite model 713 tandem axle tractor w/ sliding fifth wheel

to be used for the 5000 gallon water tanker, the Fireblast trailer

1 - Live Burn trailer from Fire Blast = Fire Fighter Training by Fireblast 451 : Safety First

1 - Mobile command Post by MBF - on a freightliner M2 chassis

And maybe a few other suprises................

Looks like they will have something similar 5K vs what looks like an 8K tank.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

I've moved allot of water of over the years, and I'll stay with the 3000 gal tanker system any day over the 8000 gal tractor trailer jobs... in this county, moving them around could be tougher then you think.... with all the POV at scenes, local traffic, other appartus, getting our tanker through them is tough enough....

as far as the lower county and water main breaks, hire a water company with tractor trailers to come in and baby sit the town... enough with the County should buy these, before long no firefighter will be able to afford to live in this county...

[billfitz 109]

Tanker is a 5000 gallon military surplus water tanker (specifically built to carry water not a gas/oil conversion) - it is a 1995 model - stainless steel - we will be developing SOP for use . This will most likely be prepositioned in area with water problems - due to shutoffs for repair or loss of power at pump stations effecting specific areas. The new tractor on order will have a sufficient GVW to pull the load safely.

[BKrois 0]

In the 80s, the Sound Beach VFD in greenwich had a tractor and a large tanker due to a bad drought. Not sure how long the unit was in service for. More recently a few years back during a heat wave, i remember hearing some of the local pool water truckers were on call if any big fires happened in greenwich.