First line in!

[hudson144 150]

Georgia_Firefighter_Badly_Burned_in_Blaze___Firehouse_com_News.htmThis is the 3rd incident this year that I have heard about, firefighters going through the floors not realizing the structure has a well involved fire in the basement. In the other 2 cases both firefighters were killed. Hopefully the firefighter here will fully recover. As I open this i can say that these days most depts now have Thermal Imaging units. They are an asset to the fire service and have come down big time in price. Originally they were up around 35k and now you can get one for 1/2 the price and they are smaller and more advanced units. The first line in needs a TIC. By having the TIC you can scan above/IFO/Ground level to see if you have a fire in the area above you,in front of you and in this case below you. I am sure many of you can add to this so i'll end it here.

the article is in firehouse about a firefighter going through the floor,tried to attach it.

Edited August 7, 2007 by hudson144

[NoWestFF 21]

I agree with your thought that the TIC can be a great tool alongside the first-in hoseline. A few years ago when my department purchased a TIC, we had a debate about its placement on our apparatus. Some argued it should be assigned to our rescue since it was viewed as "specialized" equipment and would be used most often by crews doing search & rescue. Others argued it should be assigned to our first-due engine since it may be more helpful to have a TIC on the fireground sooner rather than later, it could compliment the hoseline on the initial attack and given our response protocol our rescue is fourth due on structure fires (after our first-due scene engine, our tanker and our source engine). Thankfully we came to agreement the TIC was best placed on our first-due engine.

As with any piece of equipment, a TIC is not a silver bullet for fireground search or operations and it's not just for victim search. It's one tool in our arsenal that can have many applications, but it's only as effective as the firefighters who have trained with it and are correctly interpreting the images they're seeing.

[Remember585 815]

Honest opinion here...

How many of you remember ANYTHING other then the line you are stretching? I am pretty sure that every fire, except one I remember, where I am on the first line in we grab the line....and that's it. I think so many of us think of the TIC as an "Investigative" tool that doesn't get taken in if there is visible fire.

Here's my personal opinion on what we should take with the initial line. (Please throw in your opinions!)

- Radio

- TIC

- Tool (for me it would be a halligan and/or a 6' hook)

- Flashlight

If it is a three-man stretch, the "Officer" can easily carry all of this. Put the radio in the pocket, clip the TIC to your coat, sling the light over your shoulder or into your coat and carry the tool. I don't think it's too much to ask.

If it is a two-man stretch, the backup can carry the stuff so the knobman can do their thing.

I forget which class or seminar I was taking, but I learned a good tip about the Roof hook. Take it in with the 1st line, that way if a ceiling or wall has to be opened - you can. Plus if you are working with drop ceilings or even cathedral ceilings, you can stick that hook up over your head and if that thing is hot when you bring it back down.....well, you know you got something over ya.

[Guest firediver55]

Just curious, Does your first-due truck company not "also" look to locate fire while conducting their primary? Once the first line has located the fire with the TIC, then what? it just stays clipped or hanging from your coat? Do you then leave your positon with the nozzle man to become a truckie? Whats wrong with sweeping the floor in front of you with the line? Once the main body of fire is knocked down then almost everyone becomes a truckie and conducts overhaul. I'm not familiar with the Volunteer world so if you could elaborate, it wouold be greatly appreciated.

Edited August 9, 2007 by firediver55

[firemoose827 324]

Just curious, Does your first-due truck company not "also" look to locate fire while conducting their primary? Once the first line has located the fire with the TIC, then what? it just stays clipped or hanging from your coat? Do you then leave your positon with the nozzle man to become a truckie? Whats wrong with sweeping the floor in front of you with the line? Once the main body of fire is knocked down then almost everyone becomes a truckie and conducts overhaul. I'm not familiar with the Volunteer world so if you could elaborate, it wouold be greatly appreciated.

firediver,

In the volunteer world we do not always have designated engine, truck, and rescue companies. We, or should I say "SOME" of us are trained to do it all...hose work, truck work, and rescue work, haz-mat training is also a bonus. We arrive on scene in our engine with an average of 4-6 FF's. They stretch the initial attack and perform a search. Or next unit thats "supposed" to respond is our second in engine, than our rescue with manpower, than if the driver arrives for it, our 95' tower. We simply set up a staging area with all interior FF's and the IC calls the staging officer whenever they need something done. Its pretty much "Iron man Football" in the "volunteer world" as you call it.

I wish we could form seperate companies and have each perform their assigned duties but no one in my dept would go for that...theyre too stuck in their ways, afraid to change. Im from Long Island originaly and I have tried to change things and have them catch up with technology but its difficult.

I almost forgot to add about the TIC! We currently have it on our rescue as well but I think they need to be on the engine. It should be on both but who could afford that. What we also have to remember is our basic training. Are we supposed to grab the line and go running in balls to the wall or are we supposed to sound the floor as we go, sweep it with the nozzle, and make sure of our footing before we move? Too many people forget their basics and try to be "Super Firefighter". Each entry team should, in a perfect world, have tools, light, TIC and radio, not to mention PASS, and personal escape ropes....anyone who jumps off a truck empty handed should be re-educated at the next drill. Everyone should have tools or light.

Good post.

Stay safe

Moose

Edited August 9, 2007 by Jonesy368

[Guest firediver55]

Thanks. That helped. Was offense taken to me saying "Volunteer World"?

[Guest feraldan]

I know of a lot of volunteer departments that run their companies as designated. My department does and most of the neighboring areas do as well. Our truck guys do truck work and our engine guys do engine work. The rare exception is if we're so short on people that truck guys need to roll one of the engines or something like that. But even so, the truck guys on the engine would do engine duty. Everyone knows their job before we even get to the scene. I don't think its necessarily a volunteer vs. paid thing. I'm sure if a paid department was stretched enough, they would send guys where needed as well. There's really no reason that any given firefighter in any given department should not be educated as to how to perform all your bread and butter fireground operations.

[DOC22 1]

In my Department our guys are trained in engine work, search, rescue vent, salvage, etc. Since we do not have a "truck" we just do about all of it, unless the scenario really warrents the use of a truck, then we call for one through the M/A system.