Ambulance coverage is in dispute - Beekman

[JetPhoto 626]

From the Poughkeepsie Journal

Monday, July 23, 2007

Ambulance coverage is in dispute

Beekman wants Alamo to stop inmate transport

By John Davis

Poughkeepsie Journal

POUGHQUAG - Beekman fire officials say the town is being left in the lurch by its ambulance service when it transports Greenhaven inmates.

"It's leaving the Town of Beekman uncovered for hours on end," said Shawn Beresford, Beekman fire chief.

But Alamo Ambulance Service, the provider, says during inmate transports, adequate coverage is being provided by other ambulances nearby.

"Most of the time we bring the Pawling vehicle to the town line," said Marc Reina, Alamo general manager in Poughkeepsie.

The town pays Alamo Ambulance Service $18,115 a month to provide round-the-clock transportation to the hospital for Beekman residents who are seriously ill or injured.

Since 2005, Alamo ambulance has been transporting inmates from Greenhaven Correctional Facility, which is in Beekman off Route 216.

The time the ambulance spends on the scene in getting in and out of the maximum-security prison, Beekman fire officials say, has left the town without ambulance service for hours.

"It's putting a lot of people in danger by playing this game," Beresford said.

Reina said the Greenhaven inmates are considered residents of Beekman and entitled to ambulance service.

"We respond to the Town of Beekman," he said.

Alamo has responded to Greenhaven 27 times this year. Reina said its average response time to the 112 non-inmate Beekman emergencies this year was 7 minutes and 39 seconds - well below the 12-minute national standard.

But the Beekman fire department is concerned about those 27 responses to Greenhaven. Its records of 911 dispatcher logs show "backfill" ambulance coverage was either lacking or delayed.

The Beekman fire chief is asking the town board to bring the issue to Alamo's attention.

Pushing for better service

"We are hoping the town can take action and say, 'For $18,000 a year, we want better service,' " Beresford said.

Town board members say they are pleased with Alamo's staff, but share the fire department's concerns.

"We have to look out for the residents of the town," Councilwoman Barbara Zulauf said.

Beekman Supervisor John Adams said a joint meeting with Alamo and Greenhaven officials could resolve the issue. If not, he said, the town will look into legally preventing the Alamo ambulance stationed in Beekman from being dispatched to Greenhaven.

Reach John Davis at jpdavis@poughkeepsiejournal.com or 845-437-4807.

[helicopper 1,050]

I think a bigger issue in this article is that the national standard for ambulance response times is 12 minutes. What good does that do?

[AFS1970 504]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but since they list a date that the prison transports started, was that not always the case in this town? Did there used to be a seperate service for each? Then I think it would be a matter of if the town's contract requires a dedicated ambulance or not. It could be that the service has two contracts that together only amount to enough call volume for one ambulance, although it would seem that both clients should then only be paying for half of it.

[Medic137 6]

If Greenvaven was on fire would Beekman FD consider it a "game" if they responded? Would they refuse to go because they would be leaving the rest of the town unprotected?

Nursing homes, prisons, homeless shelters, and baseball stadiums are all part of districts they are located in. They are entitled to the same services as everyone else.

[LCFD968 10]

Just a curiosty question-- Does Beekman have more than one ambulance? and if not maybe its time to start looking into getting another one.

If the call volume is growing then its time to fit the needs of the community. Just a thought..

[RedneckMEDIC 0]

Just a curiosty question-- Does Beekman have more than one ambulance? and if not maybe its time to start looking into getting another one.

If the call volume is growing then its time to fit the needs of the community. Just a thought..

Beekman has one ambulance of their own, 34-71, and Alamo provides one ALS ambulance, which calls out as 34-79. The way I see it, the fire department officials are more concerned that it takes a great deal longer just to get to the patient at Greenhaven than it does to go to the hospital and get back with a town resident. The question i think being, if it's gonna take X amount of time to get the crew to the patient, why not have a crew come from Poughkeepsie or Fishkill while the CO's got the inmate ready, thereby cutting both the wait time on scene of the crew, and the time that beekman is without ALS coverage

[x129K 1,393]

The way I see it, as listed above, prisons, nursing homes, schools, etc....the people inside them are entitled to the services of the township, including EMS, career or otherwise....

Alamo is 100 percent right.

(yes - that stung a bit!)

[PVFD233 68]

As a Alamo employee that article is a bunch of BS, Beekman gets backfilled and as for hours on end....BS...they way it is is that inmate is in your town take care of your town, THAT IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT. IF YOU HAVE SUCH A PROBLEM GET YOUR AMBULANCE OUT!!!

[64FFMJK 21]

there is alot more then is in this article that is going on I am sure. I only have one problem with the way things are being dane in Beekman curently. If Greenhaven wants an ambulance they can call 911 like the rest of the people in Beekman. this way the Beekman fire dept. knows that 34-79 is out at greenhaven and then they can try to get 71 out if posible. Also if Alamo has a unit avalible in the city of Poughkeepsie and they know that the inmate is going to go to a hospital in Poughkeepsie then as a dispatcher myself it makes more sence to send the Poughkeepsie unit for non emergency calls so the crew is in service and where they belong sooner afterthe call is completed

[Goose 188]

Alamo is 110% in the RIGHT.

Whens the last time Beekman's ambulance got out?

Edited July 23, 2007 by Goose

[PVFD233 68]

Alamo is 110% in the RIGHT.

Whens the last time Beekman's ambulance got out?

That is why Alamo is on 24/7/365, If Beresford is so concerned then mabey he should get his EMT card or if he has it USE IT

[Oswegowind 17]

Beyond the bashing that is going on and should stop, Alamo is right, they have to provide equal service to all residents within the town, whether they are incarcerated, bedridden, walking wounded, whatever the case may be. Planning for this is up to the town and the fire department, technically pre-planning but it may be passed the pre stage at this time. The comment about, what if there was a fire, is absolutely correct, should they disregard that "property" cause it will take units out of service for too long a period of time? No, do your job. If another calls comes in, handle it or go mutual aid...that is why the system is in place!

[Beekman 5]

Where to begin?

Inmates are not residents of Beekman (that argument will settle itself and gee they weren't residents when Sloper covered Beekman and Alamo had the GHCF contract). If the Town of Beekman was to get rid of the contract ambulance, the Fire District wouldn't transport the inmates. The Beekman Fire District hasn't transported an inmate in 20 years and it hasn't been an issue.

I don't think UnionVale, East Fishkill or LaGrange would transport an inmate either but I'll check on that.

GHCF can't call 911 for inmates because they are covered under a State contract with Bliss who subcontracts to Alamo. GHCF calls Alamo direct.

Response time-wasn't an issue. Neither is there an issue with any crews. The shitboxes that Alamo has had out in Beekman have become an issue and since Pawling complained and got a new ambulance, the Town Supervisor from Beekman will be bringing up this issue at the meeting with Alamo.

Calls- This is the best "Reina said its average response time to the 112 non-inmate Beekman emergencies this year was 7 minutes and 39 seconds - well below the 12-minute national standard" I have 323 EMS calls as of 7/1 not including MVAs, CO alarms and other calls. Does Alamo actually use their computers lunchbox? Why is it when the Town Supervisor asked Alamo for their information on inmate transports, he was handed some bullshit piece of paper with numbers written on it in pencil? All of my info is straight off the 911 CAD sheets, date and time stamped. Kind of hard to argue with that evidence.

Would of any of the other posters on here, besides lunchbox, like to identify themselves as Alamo employees? I think the Alamo Beekman crews who get the pleasure of going to GHCF would like to speak to you.

Adequate coverage- Beekman 34-79 goes out for an inmate transport. Few hours later (with 34-79 still out on the first call) another call goes out for an inmate transport and Alamo, after 5 minutes, sends a rig from Highland. So much for that backfill thing! Must have been a real big emergency to skip over all those ambulances and respond from Highland and take 30 minutes to get the GHCF. With GHCF's operational procedures (being a maximum security prison and all) even if you are in cardiac arrest, you aren't getting out of that prison in less than 30 minutes. The on scene time averages 50 minutes. That's not an emergency, it's a transport. I know of many places where they are having issues with nursing homes and the like and the call volume. GHCF isn't a nursing home. Most of the Districts have agreements with those places to have a contract with a commercial agency handle their transports and only call for emergencies. What some people on here are saying is that every call is an emergency and nursing homes and the like shouldn't call for a commercial agency for transports because they deserve the same service as everyone else. Right?

34-71 (Beekman Fire District ambulance) is only in service from 6p to 6a. It has the same problem as every other ambulance- no manpower.

Fire? They have their own fire truck and brigade. They will only call for assistance when they need it.

As for my EMT- had it since 1993. Don't burn your bridges lunchbox. You can't work for Alamo dispatch for the rest of your life at least I hope that's not your goal in life. I'll find you and we will talk.

Folks- Alamo, the Town of Beekman, Dutchess 911 and the Beekman Fire District have a meeting scheduled for 8/2 at 3 PM. Let's see what develops.

Shawn Beresford

Chief, Beekman Fire District

[Guest]

You make it sound like its Alamo's fault. That's what you get when you go with a commercial agency...they will always have commercial transports but always work to relocate rigs to provide maximum coverage. Everyone knows that. Anyways, I've never heard of a town not responding to an rmergency call in their own district when they are needed. Even towns with nursing homes and other facilities who have commerical contracts sometimes require a rig from the local ambulance corps to respond if the commerical service can't. Its called mutual aid, helping out your other EMS brothers, whatever. If you care about the well being of the community you won't ignore some EMS calls and respond to others. Many towns have the majority of their call volume made up of responses to nursing homes, correctional facilities, mental hospitals, etc. Its the way it is.

[jps385 0]

What does the contract say? If it says the towns ambulance can only respond to calls received via 911 then if the prison calls Alamo direct the call should not use Beekamn's ambulance. If the contract reads any calls originating in the town of Beekman than Alamo is within their rights. The fact that this is state property doesn't preclude them from calling 911. I've repsonded into federal correctional facilites while working NYC 911. DMV is a state facility do they need a comercial provider to respond?

Back to contracts what people say and what is written are ussually very different. Putnam was told there would be 911 back fill as avaialble. What does the Beekman contract say? Does it guarantee a backfill ambulance in a certain amount of time (written down, not what someone from Alamo told you).

[IzzyEng4 427]

Since I have received a complaint about a quote in one of the post here, a decision was reached to edit the portion of the post that was the source of the complaint. Though I hate to do such a thing, we must all remember when posting what our place is when making comments towards a certain service's problems. Also a reply that had the quote was also edited as well.

Please keep the topic constructive.

Izzy

[RedneckMEDIC 0]

Would of any of the other posters on here, besides lunchbox, like to identify themselves as Alamo employees? I think the Alamo Beekman crews who get the pleasure of going to GHCF would like to speak to you.

I'm also an Alamo employee who has the pleasure of working in Beekman every friday. I think Shawn is right, but as I have not seen the contract for either the Town of Beekman or GHCF, I can only offer my humble opinion

[helicopper 1,050]

All due respect Chief, I think the issue you should be most concerned with is whether or not you can get an ambulance out the door. It is completely and utterly irrelevant if a post on this forum is by an Alamo employee or not and for you to expend your valuable time and energy on bashing them and/or Alamo is beneath you.

Your comments about the statistics is confusing also. Perhaps you should take a few minutes, calm down and make your point when you're not upset about the comments in the newspaper or this forum. I'm actually interested in the issue and I'm neither an inmate or an employee of Alamo.

If inmates at Greenhaven aren't residents of the town is your issue about providing services to non-town residents? I suspect that many people involved in car accidents on the roads that traverse your town aren't residents either - do you have an issue providing them services? Aren't inmates entitled to the same medical care as anyone else in your town or are we punishing them further for their crimes?

As long as Alamo provides Beekman and Greenhaven with the services as outlined by the respective contracts, my guess is that you have no control over which Alamo ambulance is used for which calls. If they backfill your community with another resource, they're meeting their contractual obligation.

Maybe you could spend some time recruiting for your agency rather than hunting members of the commercial service you take such exception with.

Sorry to say all this but your post is rather venomous and Beekman is a long way from Jacobi and I doubt CKROLL (EMTBravo resident snake expert) makes housecalls.

Where to begin?

Inmates are not residents of Beekman (that argument will settle itself and gee they weren't residents when Sloper covered Beekman and Alamo had the GHCF contract). If the Town of Beekman was to get rid of the contract ambulance, the Fire District wouldn't transport the inmates. The Beekman Fire District hasn't transported an inmate in 20 years and it hasn't been an issue.

I don't think UnionVale, East Fishkill or LaGrange would transport an inmate either but I'll check on that.

GHCF can't call 911 for inmates because they are covered under a State contract with Bliss who subcontracts to Alamo. GHCF calls Alamo direct.

Response time-wasn't an issue. Neither is there an issue with any crews. The shitboxes that Alamo has had out in Beekman have become an issue and since Pawling complained and got a new ambulance, the Town Supervisor from Beekman will be bringing up this issue at the meeting with Alamo.

Calls- This is the best "Reina said its average response time to the 112 non-inmate Beekman emergencies this year was 7 minutes and 39 seconds - well below the 12-minute national standard" I have 323 EMS calls as of 7/1 not including MVAs, CO alarms and other calls. Does Alamo actually use their computers lunchbox? Why is it when the Town Supervisor asked Alamo for their information on inmate transports, he was handed some bullshit piece of paper with numbers written on it in pencil? All of my info is straight off the 911 CAD sheets, date and time stamped. Kind of hard to argue with that evidence.

Would of any of the other posters on here, besides lunchbox, like to identify themselves as Alamo employees? I think the Alamo Beekman crews who get the pleasure of going to GHCF would like to speak to you.

Adequate coverage- Beekman 34-79 goes out for an inmate transport. Few hours later (with 34-79 still out on the first call) another call goes out for an inmate transport and Alamo, after 5 minutes, sends a rig from Highland. So much for that backfill thing! Must have been a real big emergency to skip over all those ambulances and respond from Highland and take 30 minutes to get the GHCF. With GHCF's operational procedures (being a maximum security prison and all) even if you are in cardiac arrest, you aren't getting out of that prison in less than 30 minutes. The on scene time averages 50 minutes. That's not an emergency, it's a transport. I know of many places where they are having issues with nursing homes and the like and the call volume. GHCF isn't a nursing home. Most of the Districts have agreements with those places to have a contract with a commercial agency handle their transports and only call for emergencies. What some people on here are saying is that every call is an emergency and nursing homes and the like shouldn't call for a commercial agency for transports because they deserve the same service as everyone else. Right?

34-71 (Beekman Fire District ambulance) is only in service from 6p to 6a. It has the same problem as every other ambulance- no manpower.

Fire? They have their own fire truck and brigade. They will only call for assistance when they need it.

As for my EMT- had it since 1993. Don't burn your bridges lunchbox. You can't work for Alamo dispatch for the rest of your life at least I hope that's not your goal in life. I'll find you and we will talk.

Folks- Alamo, the Town of Beekman, Dutchess 911 and the Beekman Fire District have a meeting scheduled for 8/2 at 3 PM. Let's see what develops.

Shawn Beresford

Chief, Beekman Fire District

[PVFD233 68]

.......If the Town of Beekman was to get rid of the contract ambulance, the Fire District wouldn't transport the inmates....

Who would?

GHCF can't call 911 for inmates because they are covered under a State contract with Bliss who subcontracts to Alamo. GHCF calls Alamo direct.

Very goooood

Response time-wasn't an issue. Neither is there an issue with any crews. The shitboxes that Alamo has had out in Beekman have become an issue and since Pawling complained and got a new ambulance, the Town Supervisor from Beekman will be bringing up this issue at the meeting with Alamo.

Be grateful you have a ambulance, and if you are so worried sell your 71 donate the money to Alamo.

Would of any of the other posters on here, besides lunchbox, like to identify themselves as Alamo employees? I think the Alamo Beekman crews who get the pleasure of going to GHCF would like to speak to you.

It is their job, and GHCF is not the worst out there.

Adequate coverage- Beekman 34-79 goes out for an inmate transport. Few hours later (with 34-79 still out on the first call) another call goes out for an inmate transport and Alamo, after 5 minutes, sends a rig from Highland. So much for that backfill thing! Must have been a real big emergency to skip over all those ambulances and respond from Highland and take 30 minutes to get the GHCF

I hear it every shift, "Beekman Rescue respond......" the dispatcher then informs a crew to "10-10 Post 10 a.k.a. Beekman, and the county can have more then 1 call at a time and same for a district MUTUAL AID can be a beautiful thing!

With GHCF's operational procedures (being a maximum security prison and all) even if you are in cardiac arrest, you aren't getting out of that prison in less than 30 minutes. The on scene time averages 50 minutes. That's not an emergency, it's a transport. I know of many places where they are having issues with nursing homes and the like and the call volume. GHCF isn't a nursing home. Most of the Districts have agreements with those places to have a contract with a commercial agency handle their transports and only call for emergencies. What some people on here are saying is that every call is an emergency and nursing homes and the like shouldn't call for a commercial agency for transports because they deserve the same service as everyone else. Right?

Does Alamo force Alamo to go through those procedues?

34-71 (Beekman Fire District ambulance) is only in service from 6p to 6a. It has the same problem as every other ambulance- no manpower.

Why only 6p-6a? Because of Manpower? So you only provide your district/town with your BLS ambulance for 12 hours? What ever happened to 34-72?

Fire? They have their own fire truck and brigade. They will only call for assistance when they need it.

Thats great clap clap

As for my EMT- had it since 1993. Don't burn your bridges lunchbox. You can't work for Alamo dispatch for the rest of your life at least I hope that's not your goal in life. I'll find you and we will talk.

Bridges? Ha... Dispatcher? No. If your goal in life is to get your name out there in some lame/misconstrued article, well thats your life have at it.

I'll find you and we will talk

annnnnnnnnnd instead of finding me find some EMTs to man your ambulance.

"Folks- Alamo, the Town of Beekman, Dutchess 911 and the Beekman Fire District have a meeting scheduled for 8/2 at 3 PM. Let's see what develops.

Shawn Beresford

Chief, Beekman Fire District"

Edited July 23, 2007 by SPFC56-233

[JetPhoto 626]

Change the name on the contract BUT this is always Alamo's statement:

Alamo has responded to Greenhaven 27 times this year. Reina said its average response time to the 112 non-inmate Beekman emergencies this year was 7 minutes and 39 seconds - well below the 12-minute national standard.

As a member of Beacon Vol. Amb. (BVAC) I can tell you that the correctional facilities have paid contracts with private services. BVAC does not typical go to the facilities (Fishkill and Downstate - both maximum facilities) unless an employee forgets to call the private service and dials 911 or it is a critical emergency. We do go to Camp Beacon and transport from there. I must also say that the City of Beacon who responds on P1 & P calls no longer responds to Fishkill Corr. because they don't allow the engine in the gate unless there is a fire. We do transport correctional guards from all facilities.

We do not transport from nursing homes once again unless it is critical or (which is often the case), the private service is not available.

BVAC is not supported by taxes

While I understand everyone's points on this topic. If a facility contracts with a paid service, the paid service that has a contract with a municipality should not be sending the primary ambulance to a call at said facility unless it truly does immediately backfill the municipalities location. TherReason is because the paid service is getting paid twice for the same job. (I know that's not legal)

So I say to Beekman - Good Luck Bro.

Edited July 23, 2007 by JetPhoto

[Danger 160]

First of all, "lunchbox" is on point, if not a bit brash. ;-)

Yes, getting in and out of GHCF takes quite a bit of time. Perhaps that time could be better spent by having a Poughkeepsie crew make it out there, or perhaps GHCF staff could meet us at the door. Either way, they are part of the town.

As far as backfill, Alamo dispatch absolutely makes the effort to backfill as soon as possible. Sometimes, especially during peak times or skeleton crew overnights, it's not possible. Sorry, but every commercial agency (at least around here) runs out of units eventually.

On a side note, I respect a chief standing up for his Dept. and the town he protects. However, all this namecalling and public laundry airing smells kind of sour. Maybe one might stick to the high road of meeting with the town board and Alamo management.

[PVFD233 68]

I hope everyone sees this thread for what it is. Peoples Opinions and I applaud the Bravo staff for not deleting it as others have been.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Alamo is 110% in the RIGHT.

Whens the last time Beekman's ambulance got out?

LOL. What are you smoking?

OK, being I am actually a resident and taxpayer of Beekman I think I need to chime in.

Let go whether or not the fire district can get an ambulance out. That is the whole point of why a contract with a provider was established. At least the Beekman Fire District did something that most agencies and probably even some of yours sadly cannot do...they admitted they had a problem and they set out to correct it.

Show me how many of you have correctional facilities in your response area and then those of you that don't, go through the facilities and tell me how many of the local EMS agencies cover the prison for inmates. Most if not all I can think of do not, they only respond for staff...who is the only legitimate persons in those walls that deserves what free and law abiding citizens deserve.

GHCF inmates are residents and deserve the same coverage?....funny...when posts go up about cop killers, child molesters, kiddie p*** wackos and other criminals everyone is ready to off them with a 30 cent bullet. But have someone post an article and one where the guy seems like he is being a leader and a manager for the town he serves and criminals all have rights. Wow the humanity...let me wipe the small tear from the corner of my eye. Damn I might even have to turn up the a/c to cool the warmth you enlightened my heart with. What's next..herbal tea and tree hugging. They are not residents, they are not entitled to the coverage that my kids deserve and oh by the way is supplemented by Beekman taxpayers. Get a grip. Who would transport them? That is the state correctional divisions problem isn't it. They seem to make out fine with every other facility that the local EMS agency won't go to. Sing Sing...Ossining EMS only does staff. Bedford correctional...covered by a private contract..used to be Empress unsure now. Westchester County Jail...private contract.

I also find it funny that some of you that I know work or have worked for Alamo were so quicked tongued to make reference to issues regarding things that occur there and are occurring. Some of you ranted on end about response times in Putnam and how its is only covered by 4 flycars and how the taxpayers deserve more but then turn and try to say they are right here. Yet again get a grip...stick to an argument. Fact is contracts are for reasons and I know next door to Beekman they had an issue when Alamo came in because they would send that unit they pay for to do contract nursing home transports and then "backfill" again. It certainly didn't seem to mind much around 2 years ago when they sent me from Wappingers to GHCF for a "seizure." The nurse there and a couple of CO's that were EMT's seemed quite competent. So what has changed so much now.

Maybe some of you don't see it but basically they often rob Peter to pay Paul when it comes to units. Maybe you shouldn't send ambulances on wheel chair transports so you have more units available (if they still are doing that.) What they are doing in Beekman is exactly what they did to lose the Wappingers contract just on a single unit level. I don't pay taxes to have money go to a company in return to send the "town" ambulance to a prison, to bring a neighboring town's tax funded staffed ambulance "on the border." I understand any agency can run out of units...but when you have a contract with a town, as a taxpayer, father, husband and not even a provider/professional myself I want the ambulance that our tax dollars are paying for in my town. Not on the border...not in Pawling...

Couldn't tell you how many times I was in Wappingers watching a alamo unit fly down rte 9 to get to Beacon to cover their ALS contract. Was Wappingers wrong for their complaint that they didn't have the units they were contracted to have in the town? Were the fire chiefs of the fire districts that stayed on them about response times wrong too?

[helicopper 1,050]

GHCF inmates are residents and deserve the same coverage?....funny...when posts go up about cop killers, child molesters, kiddie p*** wackos and other criminals everyone is ready to off them with a 30 cent bullet. But have someone post an article and one where the guy seems like he is being a leader and a manager for the town he serves and criminals all have rights. Wow the humanity...let me wipe the small tear from the corner of my eye.

Hey ALS, that was my comment and my point was that we can't pick and choose our clientele or deny people services - for any reason (incarcerated being one of them). I certainly don't have a soft spot for these poor, misunderstood, disadvantaged inmates (ALS, I know you're laughing - for those of you who don't know me that is sarcasm) - as far as I'm concerned all jails should be like the tent prison in Maricopa County, AZ and the death penalty should be promptly and frequently exercised.

I think you make a great point that its robbing Peter to pay Paul with the musical towns coverage for EMS units. But with each town/village/city making its own arrangements for calls within their borders and considering only the minimum coverage they perpetuate the problem. Unless and until we start looking at these problems from a regional perspective and collaborating to develop solutions that are truly going to solve the shortage.

The pathetic thing is that these are the same problems that existed when I started in EMS 20 years ago. Don't we ever learn?

[Danger 160]

From what I have heard, a big issue is liability. The person who explained this to me is a lot smarter than me and explained this in great detail, so bear with with me, this is the general idea: If an inmate is in cardiac arrest, and Alamo doesn't send the ambulance 5 minutes away, it's on Alamo. If the town makes a stand and says 34-79 is not to roll a tire unless it's a non-GHCF call, then the liability is with the town. All three parties involved have been consulting with attorneys.

ALS, I completely understand where you are coming from. My district has a large college and a busy nursing home and too often, our units are over there and then the taxpayer has to get a bus from further away. However, we can't turn them away.

As far as prisoners go, let them eat cake and let the state pay for all of MY medical expenses.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Chris: You're right I was laughing...I wasn't directing my comment to you just in general to a few comments overall.

AFD, I understand what you are saying, however those nursing home patients are just as important as my neighbor. To me a nursing home and college (which should have some form of its own EMS IMO as well) are apples and oranges to a prison.

If it is on Alamo or the town for an arrest...then why were ambulances often sent from Yonkers to Bedford and Ossining for inmates? Why are they not called there for every injury then instead of inmates going to the infirmary? Why do they even have nurses and PA's for treatment, medication dispersion and ACLS and all that other good stuff?

[ajsbear 11]

Chris: You're right I was laughing...I wasn't directing my comment to you just in general to a few comments overall.

AFD, I understand what you are saying, however those nursing home patients are just as important as my neighbor. To me a nursing home and college (which should have some form of its own EMS IMO as well) are apples and oranges to a prison.

If it is on Alamo or the town for an arrest...then why were ambulances often sent from Yonkers to Bedford and Ossining for inmates? Why are they not called there for every injury then instead of inmates going to the infirmary? Why do they even have nurses and PA's for treatment, medication dispersion and ACLS and all that other good stuff?

I was wondering when you were going to comment on this one. Doesn't Alamo have a seporate contract with GHCF? If so it's not coming out of the local budget but I understand when they pull the local unit that is supposed to be covering Beekman. They need to have a unit available at all times for the local response. If its not available maybe the town needs to look at other providers or demand Alamo has a unit in town at all times as per the contract and not pull it to cover another contract. Maybe the town needs to look into the legal issues of the contract. It should state minimum response times, coverage hours units etc. If not the people who approved it should be removed from office. In this day and age where everything usually is spelled out the town should have alamo up against the wall on this. The town comes first. I know there is a contract with Camp Smith and everything there is spelled out. I know its different then the jail but it is a state facility.

[Guest]

The answer is very simple. People deserve EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE just as much as they do police protection and fire protection instead of trying to cut corners and either get coverage by spending the least amount or trying to tack on EMS to another Dept. there must be a seperate EMS Dept, People need to know that if they or their loved ones no matter who they are if they are sick or injured that when they call 911 they will be answered by trained ,experinced proffesionals dedicated to the sick and injured.........Wake up people........

[MerlinMedic 5]

Just a few thoughts on this topic:

1) in other parts of the state where there is no commercial EMS, who goes in when an inmate gets shanked? The vollies.

2) Years ago when Beekman was just a farm town, the town's leaders were glad to have a prison there as it meant jobs and tax money. Now that Beekman has grown past those days, it seams that some want the prison and the responsibilties that go with to go

3) Has anyone every heard of the 14th Amendment? Equal protection under the law. I would hate to see someone bring a Federal Civil Rights suit because Alamo or Beekman didn't send the unit assigned to Beekman for a cardiac or other P-1 or 2 call.

4) I have noticed 2 things (with no scientific research to back me up) about rolling the rig: EMS agencies generally roll more often than combined fire/EMS (you call, we haul) and those without commercial back up roll more often than those with commercial back up (no cherry picking). This apply to vollie agencies only.

[ex-commish 490]

Those of you who know me and know what I do for a living may scratch thier heads on this one but inmates are entitled under law to the very same health care as me and you. And as much I agree with the methods and practices of the sherrif in Arizona I can tell you the one thing he can not take away is thier right to adequate health care. I too would love to see cop killers, child molesters, etc rot away but our liberal society packed with greedy lawyers have dictated otherwise and prison/jail officials have a responsiblity to see that the rights of all incarcerated are protected.

On another note, not all inmates, especially in a county jail/pen setting are cop killers and child molesters and drug dealers. I have dealt with many vietnam vets who to this day are messed up due to the war and never recieved the proper care they should of recieved when they came home from the war. Some are in for other non-violent crimes and are first timers who made mistakes and are trying to get thier lives together. How about the father who was jailed because he violated an order of protection when he called his house to talk to his kids who were beat up by his ex-wifes new boyfriend. And there are the pre-trial detainees who are innocent untill proven guilty. Then there are the few who simply should not be in jail at all.

I don't mean to sound liberal. Most of them do deserve to belong there and I don't feel sorry for them but what has to be seperated is what we feel and what is the law and the law says they have to be afforded adequate health care as well as other services.