Personal Escape/Safety Rope Advice Needed

[f19 4]

I am looking into getting personal safety rope. Just hoping someone could give me some good info , such as size(thickness) type,where to buy,how are they rated..etc. Basically what I should be looking for,and what is evryone else usi ng and happy with. Thanks in advance.

Sean

[Guest firediver55]

Have you taken FF Survival?

[DFD801 0]

Sterling is a company that makes some of the best rescue ropes and they have several bailout ropes made specifically for the fire service. But, more important than the rope is the proper training on how to use it. Get yourself into a firefighter survival class and all your questions will be answered.

[houlidsa 76]

rock n rescue have a good selection of escape systems. I also echo the other members comments that you should take the FF survival class and in fact as many classes as possible. An escape system is for last option only, the more you know the less likely it will be that you will need it. Thats the way it should be, not like reality which is guys walking around with their fancy Gemtor harnesses yet they don't have a clue about what they can do with it.

[Jason762 2]

Here is my set-up:

Gemtor Harness on bunker pants

50' of 8mm personal escape rope

mini-ladder rack for a controlled descent

rope and rack are in a small pouch that is stored in my left bunker pants pocket

one end of the rope is attatched to the harness via a carabiner while the other end has a carabiner which needs to be attatched to an anchor point (this is the only step that needs to be completed before bailing out)

the other option is you can lower another FF down on the free carabiner using yourself as an anchor, then tie a figure 8 on a bight and find an anchor for that, then bail yourself out (sounds complicated but its not at all with a little practice)

The whole set-up cost around $250.

[Guest firediver55]

The best I've come across yet is the 3/8"tubular kevlar webbing. Packs flatter than 6 or 7mm rope, therefore you can fit upwards of 50' into a small bag. Try and stay away from all the little gimmics like tiny rescue 8's etc. I know they seem tempting but I've tried a few and nothing beats the webbing and biner, it's fast and just as efficient. Whatever you choose I hope it rotts in your pocket b/c that means you NEVER had to use it, EVER! Hope that helps. Oh yes RIT make a nice setup.

[f19 4]

yes I have taken survival.. great class..... recommend it to every firefighter. thanks for the info. I will look into those setups. The reason I was asking was to get input on what people have like,and dislike.

[Guest]

I have switched my rescue rope from 35 feet of kernmantle to 35 feet of webbing or "tape" 2 inches in diameter (50mm). Pluses about the webbing are it is much stronger than kernmantle rope, it stores better in your pocket and is more versatile. 2" webbing has breaking strengths exceeding 10,000lbs. The kernmantle is much more bulky and does not have the same strength. You also need to constantly take it out of your pants so the bends do not damage the rope and make it weak. You should check out both ropes and see which one you are more comfortable with. Also ask people that have both and see what they say. I would suggest webbing, 35' in length, 2 inches in diameter and buy a good size carabiner that can fit over the handle of a tool.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I carry 40' of 3/8" static kernmantle. I have a figure 8 w/ a good size bite with a large carabiner attached to it. When using tools for anchor points I use the figure 8 bight and have the carabiner in the event I have to wrap a stud or other substantial object. If the carabiner doesn't load properly it can twist and pop out from under the tool and cause your anchor to dislodge. I have never had a problem with the storage, where I work my rope sits in a pouch that is just above my butt flap, it is an integrated system by Morning Pride and the rope comes out of a hole to a special pouch that has a small pouch the carabiner sits in. My vollie gear doesn't have this so I have to use a cargo pocket on my bunkers. Again, it doesn't bother me, the rope doesn't get memory and I have room to still keep my gloves in there.

The recommended textbook sizes are 8mm or 3/8" rope. Stay away from any of the flat kevlar rope. It doesn't tolerate abrasion well and when your gloves are wet you cannot grip it efficiently. Which is the only concern I might have about the webbing concept. I do like the idea but haven't tested it myself in a training environment and I have a thought that if your gloves are wet and you have to get out quick you might not get good grip for the friction control on the decent.

As far as strength, I don't plan on anyone else hanging from my rope so the static kernmantle tensile strength of 4,800 lbs is fine by me. With 40' it barely weighs 2 lbs. I wear a gemtor in both FD's but do not use it as a rappelling device. I stick with the simple body belay, it works and I train/teach survival often and have it down very efficiently.

[Guest partyrock]

Without a body belay or descent device the webbing makes it difficult to control your descent. If you and your gloves are wet you're taking the express to the ground. Before FDNY issued the current system to us I was using 50' of 3/8 kern mantle. The rope is extremely easy to control your descent. With the body belay you can panic and still not go too fast. Through your harness without a descent device you can still control your speed no matter what the conditions. Unless you have a descent device that you are very familiar with and can use blacked out, gloved up and upside down dich the webbing and get a rope.

[Guest firediver55]

Haven't hand any problems with gloves being wet. Guess weak hands don't help. As for abrasion, We have 3 training bags for the dept. and 170 guys have trained with them multiple times, no problems. Best thing to do is try a few different setups and see what is best for you. If $$ are no problem buy two, one to train and one for the real deal which I hope never happens to you. If you're not FDNY EMS or Peekskill FD buy whats best for f19.

Edited July 23, 2007 by firediver55

[firemoose827 324]

Well, I have read most of the responses, and I hope you are listening to some of them. I use 35' of 3/8" static kern with a large "D" ring biner that I clip to the side of my bunkers on the adjustment strap....fold up the rope as you would feed it into a rope bag and place it in my left bunker cargo pocket. If I need to bail I use the biner to anchor to either tools or studs and use the body belay. Its effective, cheap, and doesnt require too many steps....time is of the essence when having to bail out. KISS. You need to train hard also, learn all about construction types and fire behavior so you can avoid getting into the tight spot to begin with.

Tubular webbing? I would have to agree with those who have posted on the fact that wet gloves would definately cause a problem with descent on webbing. They would slip too much. Webbing should be used for anchors and harness set-ups. I have taken survival, cave rescue, rescue ops, and they all state to use webbing for anchors and harnesses, and not as rope. I guess different depts have their own way of doing things and you should realy ask around your station as to what their preferences are, and what you will train with every day.

Good luck, and I hope you never have to use it!

Moose

[Guest firediver55]

Not to get anyone confused but The 3/8" kevlar tubular webbing is not the same webbing you're thinking of. it's not standard 1",2" webbing you would use for anchors. It has a tensile strength or 5500lbs and Temp. rating of 862 degrees F. It is made solely for bailout/egress. Sorry If it wasn't clear.

Edited July 23, 2007 by firediver55

[f19 4]

Thanks for all the info.. That was my only concern about the webbing with wet gloves. But firediver mentioned what he uses is different from what I think I was thinking of. I like the rest of you hope I never have to use it, but def. want to train more with it and have some on me at all times.. I am going to take into consideration everything you guys have mentioned...Thanks again

[Guest alsfirefighter]

with a large "D" ring biner that I clip to the side of my bunkers on the adjustment strap

Jonesy:

I am seeing more and more firefighters that are doing this or clipping the biner on other parts of their pants. Be cautious when doing this, if you haven't done so, try to bailout in a training environment (with a safety line) blacked out and quickly. Often this cannot be accomplished due to your gloves, no visibility, the carabiner often is under the bottom of the coat and then you are trying to pull the beaner off a fabric strap and it gets caught.

Leave the carabiner in your pocket or in a bag.

Firediver I think I know what you are referring to in the kevlar tubular. I'm not sure what your final comment was all about however I think I gave him options to what is best for f19 not telling him what he should be doing.

[firemoose827 324]

Jonesy:

I am seeing more and more firefighters that are doing this or clipping the biner on other parts of their pants. Be cautious when doing this, if you haven't done so, try to bailout in a training environment (with a safety line) blacked out and quickly. Often this cannot be accomplished due to your gloves, no visibility, the carabiner often is under the bottom of the coat and then you are trying to pull the beaner off a fabric strap and it gets caught.

Leave the carabiner in your pocket or in a bag.

Firediver I think I know what you are referring to in the kevlar tubular. I'm not sure what your final comment was all about however I think I gave him options to what is best for f19 not telling him what he should be doing.

Sure.....NOW you tell me!!! Yup, I had to learn it the hard way. During survival it got hung up once on the fabric strap and I had to loosen it all the way and pull the strap out to get the biner. I than went and practiced on a drill night at the training tower, I used different methods and I found that the only way I could easily access the biner was clipping it on the strap. So I have devised a simple strap using a scrap piece of 1" tubular webbing, tied it off with a figure of eight through and through and tied a slip knot around the adjustment strap so I have a 3" loop that I can secure the biner to. It has worked well for me but I am trying to get my dept to purchase some personal escape bags for those of us who are interior, along with the harnesses.

Thanks for the heads up.

Moose.

[Remember585 815]

First off, every FD should be providing the training (at least annually) and equipment to personnel on how to bail-out. Firefighter Survival is a great course, but the skills learned should be revisited at least once a year.

I carry, which was issued to all of our Interior personnel 2 or 3 years ago, a 35' 8mm rope with a steel caribeaner. I keep it in my right pocket in a pouch on the pants.

I wish I trained with it more often, simply because anytime I (or anyone I would think) trains on something I learn something new. I hope I never need it.....came close enough once!

To the FDNY guys, what is the system you are using now? I lost track, thanks.

Also, I don't want to jack this thread, but what is everyone's thoughts on carrying webbing? I have a 24' piece of tubular webbing which I keep in my left pant pocket. I'm looking for thoughts on how to store it. I had it in a pouch, then the rubber glove, back to a pouch. I've rolled it, folded it and laced it. I carry it primarily for creating a way to drag a brother (or sister) out if needed.

Thanks.

[firemoose827 324]

First off, every FD should be providing the training (at least annually) and equipment to personnel on how to bail-out. Firefighter Survival is a great course, but the skills learned should be revisited at least once a year.

I carry, which was issued to all of our Interior personnel 2 or 3 years ago, a 35' 8mm rope with a steel caribeaner. I keep it in my right pocket in a pouch on the pants.

I wish I trained with it more often, simply because anytime I (or anyone I would think) trains on something I learn something new. I hope I never need it.....came close enough once!

To the FDNY guys, what is the system you are using now? I lost track, thanks.

Also, I don't want to jack this thread, but what is everyone's thoughts on carrying webbing? I have a 24' piece of tubular webbing which I keep in my left pant pocket. I'm looking for thoughts on how to store it. I had it in a pouch, then the rubber glove, back to a pouch. I've rolled it, folded it and laced it. I carry it primarily for creating a way to drag a brother (or sister) out if needed.

Thanks.

Hello 585....I saw your question and wanted to give a couple of ideas to you.

For the firefighter drag just keep a short piece( 3-4') of utility rope in your pocket, tie handcuff knots around their wrists, loop their hands over your head and drag as you crawl.

For other applications, use the same piece of rope, make a prussik loop, loop it around pack harness or rescue harness and use it as hand grip to drag them out. I keep a prussik loop already tied in my pocket as well as a small piece of utility rope. The prussik comes in handy for handling 2 1/2" handlines, dragging LDH, etc.

Hope this helps.

Moose