State shuts down Firehouse Bars in Rensselaer

[Monty 35]

From The Albany Times Union

State closes bars in Rensselaer firehouses

By BOB GARDINIER, Staff writer

Click byline for more stories by writer.

Last updated: 2:15 p.m., Tuesday, July 17, 2007

RENSSELAER -- Bars in the volunteer firefighters' social areas of all three city firehouses were ordered closed by the state Liquor Authority last week, city and Rensselaer County officials confirmed today.

SLA officials made unannounced visits to the social rooms of the Rensselaer City Fire Department houses at 959 Broadway, 31 Second Ave., and 42 Partition St., on Friday and ordered their bars to cease operation, according to the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Mayor Daniel J. Dwyer confirmed the probe but said he could not provide details.

"This is an internal matter and we will deal with it internally," Dwyer said.

The SLA's investigation was triggered by complaints about the operations of the bars and officials said there may have been problems with volunteers inviting too many outside friends or relatives into the bars.

Liquor Authority spokesman Bill Crowley said he could not comment on any ongoing investigation.

The Rensselaer City Fire Department is a combination department consisting of paid and volunteer personnel. The paid staff provide EMS coverage to the city and the volunteer members are called to duty when additional manpower is needed.

In volunteer fire departments, the existence of social rooms with bars, usually upstairs over the garage area where firefighters hang out to await calls, is an old tradition. Over the years, however, many departments have phased them out.

Be interesting to see what updates there are to this. I thought the last paragraph was particularly interesting .....

[mstrang1 213]

In volunteer fire departments, the existence of social rooms with bars, usually upstairs over the garage area where firefighters hang out to await calls, is an old tradition.

THIS is the big problem... I hope I do not have to expand.... 'nuff said...

[TL2L31 8]

I think that as adults we should be responsible enough to make the right decision whether we are at the corner pub or at the firehouse. If there is alcohol in the blood stream, stay put!

[OnTheWheel 43]

In volunteer fire departments, the existence of social rooms with bars, usually upstairs over the garage area where firefighters hang out to await calls, is an old tradition.

THIS is the big problem... I hope I do not have to expand.... 'nuff said...

The biggest problem I see is the abuse by non responsible personell. We are all adults and can easily police ourselves. There's no reason to make EVERYONE pay for a few people who can't get the basic concept of if youre drinking don't get on the truck, dont even go to a fire. Chastise the people who abuse it and need their hand held, dont make the responsible people, who like to have a beer during down time and stay sitting there when the bell rings, suffer. Its nice to have a "hall" at your disposal for private parties as well. Its time the alcoholics find somewhere else to drink, that I can agree with is an OLD tradition and it looks like hell. A few social drinks isnt a problem and shouldnt be made out to be.

Let the replies fly! lol

[OLDGUY19 6]

Nothing good can come Bars and Firehouses. Rental Halls where there is B.Y.O.B in Firehouses can generate income to off set the cost of doing business ie saveing taxpayer dollars.

[JBE 328]

Start of a statewide trend?? Nowadays, there's too much liability to have that sort of thing going on. It's probably a good idea to start phasing them out.

[AFS1970 504]

Regardless of drinking and responding, this must be stopped. Let’s not forget that the quote about hanging out waiting for calls is the words of the REPORTER not a quote from anyone in the service. We all know how accurate the average newspaper reporter is.

My station doesn't have a bar. I have a friend who used to be in a department in another state that did. When I was visiting him, he took me to see the station and the bar was closed but he told me about all the rules they had in place, and I have to say that at least from my perspective they seem to have addressed all the problems we keep talking about in that one station.

I do think it is interesting that they reason for shutting them down apparently had nothing to do with being a Fire Station but had everything to do with violating liquor laws regarding private clubs. I think that this is just one more case where a Fire Department or Firefighter comes under scrutiny for something unrelated to the Fire Service.

Just goes to reinforce, you have to watch what you do all the time; you never know who else is watching.

[RescueKujo 130]

I think that as adults we should be responsible enough to make the right decision whether we are at the corner pub or at the firehouse. If there is alcohol in the blood stream, stay put!

But the problem is, people don't make the correct decision. And if questioned, most people who are drunk want to fight about it.

I think that this is just one more case where a Fire Department or Firefighter comes under scrutiny for something unrelated to the Fire Service.

You're right. All public safety employees are held to a higher standard by the public, since we tend to be in such high profile positions compared to the rest of the community.

[ltjay157 10]

I don't think the problem was the firefighters responding to calls after drinking. The firehouse bars were shut down by the liquor authority because they were INVITING too many people from outside the fire dept to come in and drink. They were basically running a bar without a liquor license. My dept is having a lobster clambake as a fundraiser this weekend. We had to get a temporary liquor license to be able to sell beer/wine during the event. But my thoughts are that alcohol does not belong in a firehouse anymore.

[E58RET 24]

Word has it that the Mayor and the Village Manager have deemed "no More Liqour in FireHouses in PortChester"

[helicopper 1,050]

Sorry, just an opinion but there shouldn't be any "bars" or alcohol in firehouses. The overwhelming majority of FF are responsible and wouldn't get on apparatus after drinking but there will always be those exceptions that give the entire industry a black eye. What happens when that jacka$$ jumps in a truck and gets in an accident and its determined he was drinking at the firehouse? Huge problems!

The state liquor authority is probably involved because non-members of the FD were drinking in the bar making it a "regular bar" in their eyes and subject to their rules and regulations. They also don't have ESP so someone must have made a complaint to somebody!

[RWC130 594]

If I have a cold one, I don't get on the Engine... It's that simple!

Not to change the topic of Firehouse Bars but what disturbs me is when you see Firefighters, Officers, and Chiefs

in the "Beer Pit" at a Parade get SLOSHED then get behind the wheel of Fire Appatatus or Chief Car.

THAT is what I would be concerned about!

[helicopper 1,050]

If I have a cold one, I don't get on the Engine... It's that simple!

Not to change the topic of Firehouse Bars but what disturbs me is when you see Firefighters, Officers, and Chiefs

in the "Beer Pit" at a Parade get SLOSHED then get behind the wheel of Fire Appatatus or Chief Car.

THAT is what I would be concerned about!

Amen, brother!

[OnTheWheel 43]

If I have a cold one, I don't get on the Engine... It's that simple!

Not to change the topic of Firehouse Bars but what disturbs me is when you see Firefighters, Officers, and Chiefs

in the "Beer Pit" at a Parade get SLOSHED then get behind the wheel of Fire Appatatus or Chief Car.

THAT is what I would be concerned about!

100% Agree with that. We have a rule, one beer and you can't drive. So our drivers have soda or water and there's no problem.

[irishfire2491 24]

NO BAR BELONGS IN A FIREHOUSE !!!!!!!

DRINKING AND FIGHTING FIRES DO NOT GO TOGETHER PLAIN AND SIMPLE

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Sorry, just an opinion but there shouldn't be any "bars" or alcohol in firehouses. The overwhelming majority of FF are responsible and wouldn't get on apparatus after drinking but there will always be those exceptions that give the entire industry a black eye. What happens when that jacka$$ jumps in a truck and gets in an accident and its determined he was drinking at the firehouse? Huge problems!

The state liquor authority is probably involved because non-members of the FD were drinking in the bar making it a "regular bar" in their eyes and subject to their rules and regulations. They also don't have ESP so someone must have made a complaint to somebody!

I have seen it many times. Mostly after parades. NOt sure if the FD Driver was drinking, but I know that the crews were drinking. Have seen some PAID guys also with some HOLY WATER on their BREATH. Rumor has it YONKERS FD has it in their contract that they are allowed 1 BEER with dinner. Not sure if that is true or not. May have been OLD SCHOOL.

[DOC22 1]

NO BAR BELONGS IN A FIREHOUSE !!!!!!!

DRINKING AND FIGHTING FIRES DO NOT GO TOGETHER PLAIN AND SIMPLE

Tommy, you are ABSOLUTELY right, although I'm totally prejudice, cause I don't drink. But many years ago, before the consumption of alcohol became the liability, we had a situation with it. We had a fire call, probably around 0730. At the time we had beer in the firehouse, but, fortunately, nobody at that call had the keys to it. One of our members left and started on a day of "boozing". Around 2200 that night was in a head-on which killed three women. While there was NO liability on the FD, our Chief and President spent quite a lot of time in court before we were determined to be free and clear of any liability.

[firecapt32 282]

Let me see!!!fire house public property!!! bar !! firefighting!!! not mixing well is it. If one of your firefighters leaves the station anad hits some one with their vehicle. there wont be enough money in any treasurery to pay the legal bills.

Chief's be fair warned you are in charge of ALL operations of the Department and MAY be held responsible for ANY action of your department members.

and haveing a "Social club" dosent cut it--- ohh by the way take in members under 21 and have one of them get a little beer in them. aiding to the delincquency of a minor.

so you know where my thoughts on this subject are--- dont have a bar-"social club" serve soda in your machines andn have water and soda at the parades.

Remember wether you have on your uniform or your department tee shirt you are representing the Department/ the villager/ fire district and mey be held accountable for you actions.

[Guest]

i've been on an engine where the driver was tanked, but i didn't know about it until after we got off the call. the officer from the engine literally pulled the driver aside and cursed him out and he said if he saw him attempt to do it again he would have him arrested. it was brought to the attention of the commissioners a few months later when someone slipped about the situation, and they thought it was a lie. they sarcastically said they would look into it.

i believe there should be no bars in firehouses, but may me LEGALLY served at company or district approved functions WITH established crews for responding or automatic mutual aid.

rule of thumb...8 hours from bar to car (or emergency rig), granted you're not tanked. if you're tanked, just stay the f*ck home!

i mean honestly, i've never seen a bar in a pd or a vac; why a fd??

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Why this is still a debate is beyond me. Its 2007.

As I've said before...bars and alcohol have no regular place in a firehouse. Same as there are laws, regulations and rules that must be followed. No one held a gun to any of our heads to be firefighters, no one owes us anything, you joined/work the fire service at your own free will.

You want a bar? You want facial hair? You want recognition or think you should be treated special...

GO JOIN THE ELKS CLUB!

They have lounges.

Routinely dinners

They even have a uniform and go to parades.

Tradition- Reminding you of where you still are and keeping you from getting where you need to be.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Looks like we dug up the dead horse again!

[Guest]

If fire companies are to have bars on the premisses, they should be LOCKED UP in abscence social functions/birthdays/etc.

We've all heard, read and some have seen what happens to firefighters that have had a "coupla" beers and then jumped into a rig to a call or parade.

No one fire company is able to police their members to the point of abstaining from driving/responding to a call after the consumption of alcohol.

I think breathalizers should be installed in every rig. "Blow before you go." If even a whiff of alcohol is detected, the rig will not turn on.

[firecapt32 282]

IF A FIRE STATION IS BUILT WITH PUBLIC MONEY---IT IS PUBLIC PROPERTY---NO SOCIAL CLUB OR BAR SHOULD BE ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY-

[eike1701 1]

If I have one at the bar and that pager goes off I would not think of going anyware. But some people dont think like that and thats were the trouble is

[ex-commish 490]

IF A FIRE STATION IS BUILT WITH PUBLIC MONEY---IT IS PUBLIC PROPERTY---NO SOCIAL CLUB OR BAR SHOULD BE ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY-

I agree...

[helicopper 1,050]

IF A FIRE STATION IS BUILT WITH PUBLIC MONEY---IT IS PUBLIC PROPERTY---NO SOCIAL CLUB OR BAR SHOULD BE ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY-

Define what you mean by public money?

[irishfire2491 24]

I will agree we have a bar and i am happy to say it is not used daily only for special events like christmas party.

[Monty 35]

Update ......

From the Albany Times Union Rensselaer weighs booze ban at fire houses:

Rensselaer weighs booze ban at fire houses

By BOB GARDINIER, Staff writer

Click byline for more stories by writer.

Last updated: 12:15 p.m., Wednesday, August 15, 2007

RENSSELAER -- There could be some fireworks at the Common Council meeting tonight as elected officials are poised to pass a law banning alcohol from the volunteer areas of all firehouses.

The controversy began last month when the State Liquor Authority found that alcohol was illegally sold without a license in the social areas of two of the city's three volunteer firehouses.

In reaction to the controversy, elected officials will take up a resolution tonight that would ban alcohol from all city-owned or occupied buildings, according to the agenda.

Authority officials made unannounced visits to the social rooms of the Rensselaer City Fire Department houses at 959 Broadway, 31 Second Ave. and 42 Partition St., city and state officials have said.

State officials gave the city a warning to stop the practice.

Inspections showed alcoholic beverages were being sold by agents of the city in at least two of the buildings. Alcohol is allowed in the private community rooms for members consumption, but the department and the city would need a liquor license in order to sell it, state officials have said.

In volunteer fire departments, the existence of social rooms with bars, often upstairs over the garage area where firefighters await calls, is an old tradition and a part of the community fabric, especially in small towns.

Some volunteer fire fighters believe the law goes too far and will likely speak out in opposition tonight, officials have said.

The Liquor Authority's investigation was triggered by complaints it received about the operations of the bars from neighbors near one of the firehouses. Officials said there was problems with volunteers inviting too many nonmembers into the bars to socialize.

All Times Union materials copyright 1996-2007, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, N.Y.

take up a resolution tonight that would ban alcohol from all city-owned or occupied buildings

- this caught my attention. I admit it's probably a long way off before this hits Westchester, but recently my local village enacted / enforced a rule that there would be no smoking in any village owned or leased building or equipment. There was some debate in some of the companies that own their own buildings as to whether this effected them legally or morally. In the end, in one case, it was decided that it would only apply in the apparatus bay that the village leases. In another I believe they decided to follow the spirit of the law and banned smoking inside in any of the building.

[Monty 35]

Update from Capital 9:

www.capitalnews9.com

Firefighters speak out over resolution

Updated: 8/16/2007 8:57:31 AM

By: Web Staff

RENSSELAER, N.Y. -- Firefighters in the City of Rensselaer are upset after the common council overwhelmingly passed a resolution calling for a ban on alcohol in all city buildings.

The 6-to-1 vote came Wednesday night in response to a State Liquor Authority report last month that found three city firehouses were selling alcohol without a license. Common council members say it's too much of a liability.

Volunteer firefighters called it a knee-jerk reaction, saying nobody ever went to a call drunk. Even some of the veterans say this legislation won't solve anything.

"It's not the active firefighters that are using these so-called social clubs. It's guys that haven't fought fires at all, if any, in 30 plus years," said Bob Fink, Captain Engine Company 4.

Several firefighters also say the resolution will hurt recruiting efforts.

[Guest feraldan]

Several firefighters also say the resolution will hurt recruiting efforts.

Agree or disagree, if that hurts recruiting efforts, you're probably recruiting the wrong people. How many guys join just for a bar?