Crash leads to EMT dispute

[JetPhoto 626]

From the Times Herald Record

Crash leads to EMT dispute

By Heather Yakin

Times Herald-Record

July 07, 2007

Fallsburg — An argument between a local ambulance company and Orthodox Jewish EMTs over a car-crash victim Tuesday night has escalated into a battle of rumors on the Internet.

Posters on theyeshivaworld.com site claimed that Hatzalah EMTs, who are part of Sullivan County's summer emergency services plan, were told to leave a car crash Tuesday night.

Fallsburg police Detective Sgt. Simmie Williams said the incident started after a woman crashed her truck on Pleasant Valley Road near the Bais Rochel camp in South Fallsburg. The fire department was in charge, stabilizing the truck and trying to free the driver.

EMTs from Hatzalah and Mobilemedic, the county's sole commercial EMS company, were there.

At some point, paramedic Albee Bockman, the head of Mobilemedic, and Hatzalah EMTs argued over who would take the woman, who is not Jewish, to the hospital. She was transported by Mobilemedic.

"They were not told to leave the scene. We welcome all the help we can get," Bockman said. He declined to comment any further until he meets with Hatzalah, Fallsburg police and the state Health Department.

Fallsburg town officials said the argument was all that happened. Supervisor Steve Levine met yesterday with Hatzalah, fire and police representatives.

Levine characterized the incident as a misunderstanding.

"We've always had a good relationship with Hatzalah. We've always had mutual respect," said Levine, who's also a firefighter. "We ironed out some things, and we came to an understanding. I think we'll be okay."

The meeting wasn't about pointing fingers, said Steve Proyect, a Fallsburg fire commissioner who participated. "It was, what can we do to improve the situation," he said. "It's going to be a long summer. There's lot of people here. I think it's good we had this meeting."

They may start meeting monthly to prevent new problems, Proyect said.

[Guest partyrock]

I refuse to crucify a whole organization based on a few incidents, so I'm going to assume its just the few that I've met. These few have been without exception a group of self important asses. I don't give a crap who you are or what your religion is, if you are unstable you are going to the closest facility capable of treating your condition. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't have called for ALS.

Edited July 11, 2007 by partyrock

[Oswegowind 17]

And the closest facility is not Hudson Valley Hospital when the crash occurs in Queens...and traveling lights and sirens is ridiculous also! especially that far!!!

[JBE 328]

I really can't comment too much on these folks, because I have never had any direct dealings with them. I'm sure if my brother was a member of this board he would be ripping them every chance he got. What I would suggest to you is speak to any Cop, FF or EMS type

that you know who works in Crown Heights, Borough Park, Williamsburg,Midwood,Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, or anywhere upstate, such as Monroe, who deals with these folks and ask them what they think.

From what I have seen, anyone on this board who catches the occasional ribbing for being a superbuff, fret not. These folks have anything you could possibly be strapping in your POV beat.

Perfect example, I buffed an all hands in Borough Park in December of 04. I met up with a

buddy of mine at the scene, and we split up for a few minutes. Hatzoloh, Hatzolah, Hatzalah, however they spell it in Borough Park(DISCLAIMER They do spell it at least three different ways) Had a MOBILE COMMAND CENTER parked on 39th Street and 12th Avenue. I called him on the Nextel, and was like, "DUDE you have got to get up here and get a shot of this thing!!!" I have also never seen as many tricked out Suburbans, Excursions, and any other type of SUV out there. I'll never forget the Caprice Station wagon I saw on Ocean Parkway many moons ago blazing off to somewhere with lights and sirens. Just made me chuckle.

Now, let's keep it nice. Even though I think partyrock would summed up a lot of what my bro would probably say.

[Goose 188]

Complete stupidity. As for Hotzolah...well i think crown heights spoke for itself.

[calhobs 110]

Look I worked with these bums in brooklyn for 9 years and it was not fun, they run lights and sirens to pick up coffee. I use to live by Methodist Hosptial in brooklyn, at 3am you would here them blowing the big air horn on there heavy rescue size ambulance going down 7th ave even when they had all green lights they drove faster and made more noise, they are nothing but a joke they have no respect from anyone in the city.

Edited July 11, 2007 by calhobs

[Guest]

I feel I must weigh in on this subject. I have little regard or respect for Hatzolah EMS. Back in 1990 I had a chance to visit NYC for the 1st time. A friend drove us to Brooklyn and we came upon an accident near the Williamsburg Bridge. You could hear FDNY approaching but all of a sudden a group of 5 cars arrived at the scene with Light setups that rivaled any I had seen on a POV before. The last Car to arrive was was a Chevy Caprice with more rust than the tinman after a Thunderstorm. A man jumped out of the Car and had a Hatzolah EMS T-shirt on, he ran to the back of the Car with 2 others and opened the trunk with a screwdriver, he reached into the trunk and removed a Hurst Tool w/ Gas Motor and proceeded to rush to a vehicle and begin to cut into the Car until FDNY had these jokers removed. In Oramge County NY last summer the NY State Police chased an Ambulance from Hatzolah in KJ that blew threw a Thruway Toll Plaza at over 90 mph. I could go on and on with Hatzolah Stories but my opinion is simple "Hatzolah Stay Home".

[JBE 328]

I heard about the Caprice with the Hurst tool in the trunk.

[trauma74 111]

Ok, I have been holding off commenting on the Hatzolah.....but now it is time for me to speak about them..................I have many good and bad things to say about them. First, I do have to give them credit for being the largest volunteer EMS organization in the world. They have operations in many countries around the world. Second, I give them credit for providing their services free of charge. They do not bill their patients. The funding for their organization comes in the form of donations from jewish people all around the world. Think about how much it must cost them to purchase and operate their giant fleet of vehicles, purchase supplies for everyone, issue radio equipment to each member and send their members for training from EMT to Paramedic.

Now, the negative.......they constantly use red lights and sirens when they are not suppose to be using them. I have seen many "WAR WAGONS" (big old beat up suburbans, tahoes, caprice station wagons etc) blowing up and down Rt 17 in Orange County going Code 3 to get to the Catskills before the start of Shabbos. I have seen them take their buses code 3 back to quarters. What is the reason for this?? Many of them are already bad drivers and you add red lights and sirens to the mix and you get a complete cluster****. On every Friday afternoon/evening and every Sunday afternoon/evening you can see War Wagon after War Wagon sitting in the heavy traffic waiting for a reason to activate their lights and sirens. The Hatzolah NYC members who travel on Rt. 17 monitor the KJ EMS channel and when they hear KJ EMS going to an MVA on Rt 17, they all flip on the reds and sail down the shoulder or the median. The ones that do not have the KJ channel call into "H BASE" down in Brooklyn to report an accident. All of the "H-NYC" members respond to the call. When a member of the Hasidic Community has a medical emergency or an MVA (look at their cars, brand new nice car with broken tail lights and dents all over them) they do not dial 911 from one of their 5 cell phones, the call "K BASE" or "H BASE" to request an ambulance.

I can go on and on about them, but it does not matter much because they get away with murder and they hide behind their religion to do it. The politicians do not want to lose the "bloc vote" from them so they do not crack down on this behavior. There is not another group of people anywhere in NY that can continuously violate the V&T Laws and DOH policies and protocols besides them.

The one word that they need to learn is the word "CANCEL". They have been told time and time again that they are not needed on scene and they still show up. I have had numerous run ins with them and the NYSP had to threaten them with arrest if they did not get back in their vehicles and unclog the highway!

<end of rant>

[mikeinet 37]

Guys... these forums are always monitored and patrolled as a method to provide feedback... not to bash an organization over and over again about how their operating procedures are not like everyone else. I am sure I can come up with a list for EVERY EMS agency in the tri-state area regarding protocols that are not 100% followed per NYS law or are just over the top. Sure they may do a lot of things that make us balk at such as the things mentioned above... they make ME raise an eyebrow too - but don't forget, they still are an EMS agency just like anything in Putnam, Westchester, or Orange Counties. They are all EMT certified like you and I and they have the same training. How would you like it if someone bashed every operating procedure in your agency?

(no, I have absolutly NO affiliation with Hatzolah let alone have ever even seen them operate - I'm just bugged how everyone is pissing all over them like everyone else is angels in the EMS community)

[RWC130 594]

OI VEY!

[helicopper 1,050]

Without offering my two cents on Hatzolah...

Based upon the article - it seems as though Sullivan County needs to deal with the two agencies involved. Mobilemedic is a county-wide response service that was probably dispatched. It is unclear if Hatzolah was dispatched or just showed up. But the bottom line is - decisions regarding the treatment and transportation of the PATIENT must be made by the highest trained medical provider on the scene which (again according to the article) was Mobilemedic. There shouldn't have been an argument on the scene especially not in front of the patient and that is the main issue I see here.