Snakes in our area

[grumpyff 1,159]

My wife found this snake in front of our driveway the other day. It is about 2 feet long, and was struck and killed by a car. I am not sure what kind of snake it is/was. Can anyone here identify it?

[grumpyff 1,159]

And a close up of the head...

[Guest DFC278]

Looks like a copperhead to me.

[NJMedic 96]

Copperhead, you make the call! More information about snakes in NY can be found at:

http://www.esf.edu/PUBPROG/brochure/snakes/snakes.htm

[DOC22 1]

What you have is most likely an Eastern Milk Snake. If you go to http://www.hoganphoto.com/Eastern_Milk_Snake.jpg, You'll see the same marking on it, and look close enough you can see the same pattern on its head, as the one on the close-up you took of its head. This link to New York State DEC, will give you info on where they can be found. http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7483.html

Distribution and status

The Eastern Milk Snake can be found in the northern half and southeast parts of the state, while the Red Milk Snake can be found in the southwest. Both species are considered common within thier respective ranges in Indiana.

Ecology

Milk snakes often forage around farm sheds and barns, but live in many different kinds of environments with the exception of especially dry habitats. Milk snakes eat mostly small mammals, but will also eat birds, eggs, and other reptiles. When threatened, they coil into a tight ball or may vibrate their tail and strike.

milksnake.doc

[Guest alsfirefighter]

That is definately a dickfur.

What's a dickfur fitzhum?

[grumpyff 1,159]

Thanks everyone for the answers/links.

[Remember585 815]

That's the best kind of snake there is.

A DEAD ONE!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

All kidding aside...I couldn't tell you immediately by looking at it what breed of snake it is.

However from an EMS side I can say that 1. If it bit someone it would hurt. 2. Going by basic education I received about snakes it's probably poisonous. If it wasn't dead I would try to make it that way to bring it to the med center so they can identify it and expediate the treatment process for the victim.

[NHFD21255 141]

What you had there was a Milk snake which are mistaken for copperheads all the time. The difference in the two snakes are # 1 a copperhead is a viper giving him a diamond shapped head (and venom) and # 2 the milk snake has a black outline around all his body markings copperheads do not. Hope this helps

[helicopper 1,050]

I thought this thread was a follow-up discussion to the MV promotions thread....

[Guest partyrock]

Buck and Doc are right. I love snakes and consider my self to be well informed, but an unknown snake is always treated as poisonous until I know otherwise. Diamond shaped head is the single best way, but it can be tough when said snake is alive and pissed at you.

ALS thanks for the Spies Like Us Quote.

"We need a plan."

"Lets Play dead."

[ckroll 101]

Corn snake or milk snake. Eastern Milk's are more common to the area, but I lean to corn in this case. Without it in hand can't make a positive ID. It looks nothing like a copper head, who at that length would be easily as wide as the stripe in the road and has wide, triangular markings more the color of chrysanthemums. Markings that cry out 'candy cane' will be milk or corn. If memory serves, scales on corn snakes are weakly keeled [ have a ridge up the center].

Anal plate is single in milk snakes, divided in corn.

Snakes are remarkable animals that do not deserve our fear or contempt. They are no threat to humans, save the drunk adolescent who thinks it would be fun to poke a rattlesnake and frankly, getting those people out of the gene pool is a service to mankind. There have been no fatalities in the Northeast from snake bites as long as anyone living can recount, that were not due to improperly handled imports.

They are quiet, dutiful mousers and insect eaters who will bother no one if left alone. To truly like and enjoy the company of snakes is to have moved past childish and irrational fear and to know genuine inner peace. So let go the inner monkey and curl up with something that knows how to curl up. They are soft, friendly, if not affectionate, they smell really good and are great listeners.

Putnam has about one reported venomous bite a year, usually a rattlesnake in the highlands. EMS issues if anyone is interested:

If a bite is painless and has no swelling it is non venomous or is a 'dry bite' from a venomous snake. Venoms from copperhead or rattlesnake are hemolytic and will cause bruising, swelling and intense pain. Always call ahead and take the victim of a snake bite that is presumptive for venom to a hospital that has antivenom in stock. Last I checked HVHC still stocked but it is expensive so stocking changes as perceived needs change. Envenomated bites to face or hands probably need to be airlifted to Jacobi Medical Center which is the snake bite center for the East Coast. Beware anaphylaxis which is rare in first bites but may be an issue in repeat bites. No sucking, no cutting, do not restrict blood flow as this will increase local tissue damage and keep bite at the level of the heart.

DO NOT KILL THE SNAKE. If it is non venomous, it is not necessary and if it is a rattlesnake, it it federally protected. Taking a live snake to the ER guarantees you will be seen immediately and will be remembered for a long time. In fact, they are only going to treat symptoms, anti venom is only given for cause. For upland vipers which is all we have locally, there is only one course of treatment and it is only initiated if there are definite signs of envenomation or allergic reaction.

[ckroll 101]

All kidding aside...I couldn't tell you immediately by looking at it what breed of snake it is.

However from an EMS side I can say that 1. If it bit someone it would hurt. 2. Going by basic education I received about snakes it's probably poisonous. If it wasn't dead I would try to make it that way to bring it to the med center so they can identify it and expediate the treatment process for the victim.

1. Snake bites don't hurt. I used to get wrapped by my 50 lb python all the time... and he could get all the way around my forearm. The teeth are very small and and very sharp, you can't even feel it on the way in. It will hurt a little on the way out if you don't unhook the properly. Never once got an infection.

2. Whatever education you got, get your money back. You can spend years looking for 'hot' snakes around here and never find one. 20 years in the Valley I've seen 3. I put one in the bath tub to clean her up before a photo shoot and she still didn't get her ugly up.

3. Newsflash, no one at a medical center can identify a snake. I mean, they can tell it's a snake, but that's about it.

Lose the fear and get good information.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

CKroll:

Thanks for adding your knowledge on snakes. It definately gave me some info I didn't know before. To clarify every snake that bites someone is being treated the same by me. I do not know nor do I want to then what I've read. Funny enough for me I have not one ounce of fear for snakes. Spiders...different story.

I'm glad you've been bitten painlessly, but I have not. I've been bitten 3 times by non-poisonous species and each one I felt and one was a python that took a liking to my forearm. Perhaps it was the way it got pulled off, but its jaw when it clamped was pretty discomforting. The pain was not long lasting and now I understand why by what you posted.

As far as the medical center not being able to ID a snake. I don't need a newsflash, no matter what facility I bring the snake or as much as a photo of it ends up being their responsibility not mine. If it is something that they need venom for that they don't have to me the medical center has more options for getting it rapidly if need be.

Also as far as some small training sessions on snakes..I can't get my money back, I got paid to be there...by your tax dollars. I got to see some really nice rattlesnakes, gopher snakes and sidewinders (which I have to say they are the coolest to watch glide across the sand) when stationed in 29 Palms in the Mojave desert. If anyone ever goes to Cali...Joshua Tree National Park is amazing.

[Oswegowind 17]

Yeah, I don't know snakes too well so be it a bite I would probly go to WMC or to Jacobi if at all possible...knew about the look-alike snakes (copperhead/milk snake) but when I looked at the picture I couldn't remember which one it was...so there is no chance that I would take a chance by guessing...sorry but you are going for the ride! On a side note...we got a snake bite call here in Yonkers tonight in the 1st pct...child bit by snake in hand...or not! It was a fake snake...yes, a toy...and they called 911 and we sent PD/EMS! Great! You really can't make it up!

[rfdu39 89]

Snakes are like bee's if you leave them alone and they will leave you alone.

If you see a snake don't mess with it because it could be poisonous.

On a side note the Miami Dade County fire department has a special unit called venom one to deal with poisonous snake bites in Miami Dade County

Edited July 11, 2007 by pcfdrfd700

[ckroll 101]

Outside of the northeast, snakes are a different story. Cotton mouths, coral snakes, or king of the desert Mojave Rattlesnake can all be killers or inflict grievous injury and deserve a lot of respect. Neurolytic venoms found in exotic species are painless and can shut down respiration, even days post bite. Australian snakes are known as one steppers or 2 steppers..for how long you have to walk after getting bitten before you die.

Snakes in cold climates are pretty straight forward; there's only one kind of venom. Hemolytic venom, as in our crotalids, is extremely painful but damage tends to be localized. You know if it's a 'hot' bite and even when you have been bitten, treatment is routine. What made many bites so deadly to our ancestors is the infection that often follows a bite. It is analogous to a full thickness burn and needs to be treated as such. Prior to reconstructive surgery and antibiotics, a venomous bite could have disasterous consequences. Now it's just a lousy way to spend $15,000. If someone is really concerned about bites, a sawyer extractor is a great kit for about $15. It will reliably remove almost 50% of the venom, but needs to be applied several minutes post bite.

More people die or receive serious injury from dog bites, but none of us refuses to go into a house with a dog in it, or kill it just to be safe. Cat scratches are far more painful than snake bites and carry a higher risk of infection. Talk about deadly and dangerous... there are things growing in 'all you can eat' salad bars that give me nightmares.

And yeah, what is it about spiders.... they make me scream like a girl.

[steve shryock 0]

GO STRAIGHT TO JACOBI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They have a relationship with the Bronx Zoo for the snake handlers and the anti venom is either at the Zoo or Jacobi and Jacobi has access to it 24/7.

This was something learned in my original EMT over a decade ago.

[Guest]

KRIEKY!!!! Its dead.....

[helicopper 1,050]

Yeah, I don't know snakes too well so be it a bite I would probly go to WMC or to Jacobi if at all possible...knew about the look-alike snakes (copperhead/milk snake) but when I looked at the picture I couldn't remember which one it was...so there is no chance that I would take a chance by guessing...sorry but you are going for the ride! On a side note...we got a snake bite call here in Yonkers tonight in the 1st pct...child bit by snake in hand...or not! It was a fake snake...yes, a toy...and they called 911 and we sent PD/EMS! Great! You really can't make it up!

That's freakin' hysterical!!! I hope it was the child that called and not an adult...

[grumpyff 1,159]

Though I now longer do EMS, the info on treatment of snake bites is very interesting/ refreshing. I'm sure several EMTs have looked at this post and said "what if I got called out for a snake bite...what kind of snake is that?, which facility on the area is best equipt to handle?"

[dadbo46 50]

In the words of Indiana Jones....."I hate snakes !!"

ME TOO !!!

[subband 0]

Snakes only bite when your touch their private part's lol....

[lad12derff 283]

I think there are some in Mount Vernon!!

[Guest firediver55]

Snakes AND rats!!!

[lad12derff 283]

Snakes and Rats and Backstabbers OH MY

[WAS967 97]

Just an FYI on the crotalid antivenom.......it is VERY expensive (in the order of $1-2k per vial. Dosage is by the VIAL and usually requires multiple vials of Crofab. MOST local hospitals only carry one or two of the vials to get the treatment started. From there they will likely be shipped to Jacobi if it is proven to be a poisonous bite.

(Yes, I have called local hospital Pharmacys and inquired)

[Remember585 815]

All I'm saying.....is that the only good snake is a dead snake.

BTW - Watch out for those trouser snakes!

[ckroll 101]

All I'm saying.....is that the only good snake is a dead snake.

BTW - Watch out for those trouser snakes!

Totally inappropriate, not once, but twice.