Hawthorne FD*EMS and Empress EMS

[Goose 188]

This is screaming for a third party. Whatever the issue is in Mt Pleasant it clearly needs a fresh, professional, objective look. Volunteering for years in the same 1x1 mile town simply doesn't give you the exposure nor the experience to bring an agency forward. In a single 12 hour shift i take in more calls than some agencies do in a week.

The standard of care for 2007 is a reasonable response time (no, 15 minutes doesn't make the cut), competent BLS care and then competent ALS intervention. If you cannot guarantee that to your residents you might as well throw in the towel.

And my previous question still stands: If a paid crew takes in a call, do they get the "thank you" cards and what happens to any donation money?

Edited July 18, 2007 by Goose

[Guest]

This is screaming for a third party. Whatever the issue is in Mt Pleasant it clearly needs a fresh, professional, objective look. Volunteering for years in the same 1x1 mile town simply doesn't give you the exposure nor the experience to bring an agency forward. In a single 12 hour shift i take in more calls than some agencies do in a week.

The standard of care for 2007 is a reasonable response time (no, 15 minutes doesn't make the cut), competent BLS care and then competent ALS intervention. If you cannot guarantee that to your residents you might as well throw in the towel.

And my previous question still stands: If a paid crew takes in a call, do they get the "thank you" cards and what happens to any donation money?

whether vollie or paid, the monies from the donation get put in the same fund, and each crew, paid or vollie is made aware of the "thank you" and donation letter, and its posted on the board for all to see.

[ex-commish 490]

[quote name='ONEEYEDMIC' date='Jul 17 2007, 10:10 PM' post='96900'.

VACGUY how am I unorthodox? I just say what is on my mind. Here is my problem. When Mt Pleasant started their MEDIC system I was the FIRST MEDIC in TOWN and the FIRST to do an ALS call. Of course growing up here I knew lots of people. When I started to work as a MEDIC I met many more VOLUNTEERS. Some I like and MOST I HATE. Sorry if I took all your fun away(you know who you are) but it was too better the TOWN. You may not like ALS till your family member needs it then you will understand how important it is. I know there is some ALS committee for MT PLEASANT not sure who is on it but it is not the people who know what the REAL DEAL is. Since I grew up in this TOWN, worked in this TOWN as a MEDIC and NOW work in this TOWN doing other things, I think that my input could be used. I have never once been asked my opinion. Maybe my opinion doesn't matter, but since I have been doing this for some time now and have seen many different systems it shouldn't hurt to listent to what I have to say. I KNOW THAT THE TRUTH HURTS and the people who are against a PAID SYSTEM are the ones that DON"T WANT TO ADMIT TO THE TRUTH.

Oneeye,

First, unlike VACGUY I speak for myself and I am for a town wide ems system. Nuff said on that. Also, I was on the original ALS committee representing Hawthorne along with a few others and untill I resigned as chief had attended many ALS meetings so please tell me what the "real deal" is as you put it. I was and still am a big proponet of ALS in fact argued at length with some of the former powers to be about the necessity of ALS.

[Guest]

yes, i do speak on behalf of SOME people, because they don't have the balls to stand up for what they believe should be done. they're afraid of confrontation and consequences for speaking up, you think i give a s***?? if i did, i wound't be pissing so many people off.

and oneyed, bridges will be burnt for speaking your opinion about ems in the town. it's happened to me more times than i can count, and yes it was worth it.

but i mostly speak on behalf of myself and i speak of what i see, hear and view, and i will not censor that. another problem is that we are all seperate angencies, but everyone knows everyone elses business (personal and ems related). thats why i have no "click" in the agencies. its just people i like and people i don't like; people who like me and people who don't like me.

[NYMedic37 22]

i have a few responses...

1. who cares about billing. if you get around the mumbo jumbo legal terms, you can decide to only bill the insurance co and not the pt AND not raise taxes. but people don't do that. why?? because is DOES take a lot of extra work and extra time, but what do i call that...dedication. in my vac we dish out a lot of money to pay transcare per diem during the day, we just replenish those funds. its legal and a responsible thing to do to not ask for a tax raise!!

2. i know other officers, board members and general membership do not want to give up there vac's, but what can a few people who want to push townwide ems and are up against literally...hundreds who are against it.

3. oneeyed...i'm not sure what you mean by "questioning the dispatcher." i've never even heard of someone questioning the dispatcher. you got a vague example?

4.going outside of hometown, usa and "my-vac" or whatever it's called is very important. you need to see what others are doing to broaden you own ideas.

5. ems companies (no names) are the worst of ems, i agree on that

6. as far as "the proper patch." not really something i care about

7. ems should not be a hobby. way back when it was, but i agree it can no longer be a hobbie, but most members in most vacs i see, view ems that way.

8. i disagree that if your not a tech or medic, you don't belong on an ambulance. i think many people would not be doing ems if they didn't ride as a third or assistant in a vac. i praise that idea.

....gotta run, i'll be back to further comment.

==============In regards to response number 8...You are right. Many people would not be doing EMS if they didn't ride as a third or assistant in a vac. So tha means people that DO work in EMS would be properly trained as EMT's or Paramedics and would be delivering quality medical care. We don't need an entire circus coming out of an ambulance, just properly trained professionals.

[Oswegowind 17]

VacGuy, I have never worked in Mt. Pleasant, for any of the agencies, but isn't it true that all of them (3 right?) are having difficulty establishing EMS crews during the day? I don't know which one you are involved in but maybe it is time to open your mind. Mt. Pleasant really isn't that big correct...As per the 2000 census it is 32.7 square miles which includes the areas known as Pleasantville, Sleepy Hollow, Pocantico Hills, Valhalla, Thornwood, Hawthorne, portion of Briarcliff Manor, and Eastview. Briarcliff has its own ambulance through the FD and their medics come from Ossining (Tri-Village or Community right) so they are in with Ossining and Croton. I really don't know about Sleepy Hollow or Pocantico Hills or who covers the latter...but Valhalla, Thornwood, Hawthorne, and Pleasantville are all connected...my question is how many calls go out per average during the 0600-1800 block? Total for the 4 areas. Now take the total number of resources available (ambulances)? How many qualified EMT/Drivers do each agency have? Now form a Town Wide task force for EMS....each of those EMT/Drivers (qualified in both!) can still belong to their home agency when it comes to hanging out, washing the bus, parades, playing pool (never had a pool table anywhere I belonged...pretty cool), meetings, and any other home town thing that they care for. But, when a job goes out in Hawthorne and after the first tone, the paid emt is still all by his lonesome then tone out all 3 agencies for the available EMSTF EMT/Driver cause John Smith of Valhalla may be off that day and just happen to be in Hawthorne and can answer the call by meeting the Ambulance on the scene or having the bus pick him up on the way. Now you don't have to lose your individualism, but can play nice in a much larger sandbox and still help the people that need it when they call. Just an idea, but think it over...may be just what you are looking for....And stop pissing in everyone's cheerios cause they don't see it your way...we all have opinions...

Quick fact, the largest portion of the 4 is Thornwood at 3.2 sq miles and they don't have their own Ambulance...

[Guest]

VacGuy, I have never worked in Mt. Pleasant, for any of the agencies, but isn't it true that all of them (3 right?) are having difficulty establishing EMS crews during the day? I don't know which one you are involved in but maybe it is time to open your mind. Mt. Pleasant really isn't that big correct...As per the 2000 census it is 32.7 square miles which includes the areas known as Pleasantville, Sleepy Hollow, Pocantico Hills, Valhalla, Thornwood, Hawthorne, portion of Briarcliff Manor, and Eastview. Briarcliff has its own ambulance through the FD and their medics come from Ossining (Tri-Village or Community right) so they are in with Ossining and Croton. I really don't know about Sleepy Hollow or Pocantico Hills or who covers the latter...but Valhalla, Thornwood, Hawthorne, and Pleasantville are all connected...my question is how many calls go out per average during the 0600-1800 block? Total for the 4 areas. Now take the total number of resources available (ambulances)? How many qualified EMT/Drivers do each agency have? Now form a Town Wide task force for EMS....each of those EMT/Drivers (qualified in both!) can still belong to their home agency when it comes to hanging out, washing the bus, parades, playing pool (never had a pool table anywhere I belonged...pretty cool), meetings, and any other home town thing that they care for. But, when a job goes out in Hawthorne and after the first tone, the paid emt is still all by his lonesome then tone out all 3 agencies for the available EMSTF EMT/Driver cause John Smith of Valhalla may be off that day and just happen to be in Hawthorne and can answer the call by meeting the Ambulance on the scene or having the bus pick him up on the way. Now you don't have to lose your individualism, but can play nice in a much larger sandbox and still help the people that need it when they call. Just an idea, but think it over...may be just what you are looking for....And stop pissing in everyone's cheerios cause they don't see it your way...we all have opinions...

Quick fact, the largest portion of the 4 is Thornwood at 3.2 sq miles and they don't have their own Ambulance...

hey, im trying to open my eyes. i think my eyes are wider than many others. there is a"share-a-tech" program still in the works...but like i said its sharing an emt only, not drivers. i've made attempts to have agencies have the same ins company so we can drive each others rigs too...but thats where the territorial issues really come into play and i was told to forget it. you're right mt pleasant is yonkers or anything, but each of the FOUR agencies (valhalla vac, pleasantville vac, sleepy vac and hawthorne ambulance) get there share of calls. in my vac we a little over 800, 850 max, but you have to consider at least 150 of them were mutual aid calls.

i've been looking at other agencies to see how they operate, like i said i like the way larchmont operates and i forgot to mention i also like the way ramapo in rockland operated.

[Guest]

oh and the cheerio pissing thing, #1 its fun and an experiance you can't find in too many fields because its passion driven...very powerful stuff. #2 i listen to every opinion people wanna tell me, and than i either agree or disagree. if i piss on you cereal, than most probably its my opinion that breaks you day...but why? i know others are entitled to their opinion, as am i. i get proven wrong all the time, but you think i'm gnna give up? (some may ask me to), but no, i don't.

anyways this has been a good topic, but i've been stuck on this sight for the better part of yesterday and half of today, i need to get away. good luck to all!

[Oswegowind 17]

not emt's or drivers...they have to be qualified in both and evoc certified! It then should not matter what insurance co the individual vac has because these persons will become associate members of the other agencies by being under the umbrella of a task force. They will only have access to their individual vac's property (ie passcode/key) and voting powers of the home agency, but technically will be a member of the other vac that subscribes to the task force. Who cares who is driving the paid emt to the hospital as long as someone is doing it and the patient is not waiting an unreasonable amount of time for help to arrive. If you've driven one ambulance, you've driven em all! If pville don't want a val vac person driving their rig then so be it, let the paid persons drive (like in the career/volunteer fire depts) then you are spending your money on a chauffeur. The only officer you will need in the task force is at least one liaison officer, there to deal with problems between the three, and this should not be a member of any individual agency, but an outside source, like local judge or respected member of the town that can deliberate without a home team mindset.

And remember, this is a back up plan to what already exists. You can't just respond cause you want to...you have to be called in to help, however this would be used before going fully mutual aid on a job. First tone, no crew-paid emt/driver leaves house for scene immediately. Second tone, 30 seconds after initial dispatch, no takers from that agency?. Third tone, 1 minute later, tones for all 3 are used and broadcast for available emt/driver for the Town of Mt Pleasant. Still no one? Job originated in Valhalla (per say for this example), Hawthorne VAC has paid emt/driver with volunteer driver only avail, mutual aid enacted, HFD*EMS to scene as well and VVAC paid emt on scene already turns job over to HFD for transport and goes back in service. ALS job? Paid medic rides it in with the HFD paid emt and HFD vol driver. VVAC emt still needs to go back in service and now becomes first due for both... Good luck either way...

[SgtGumby311 0]

How many of you would be in favor of a system like Greenburgh has? I know it's a money thing, but it works.

[Guest]

And remember, this is a back up plan to what already exists. You can't just respond cause you want to...you have to be called in to help, however this would be used before going fully mutual aid on a job. First tone, no crew-paid emt/driver leaves house for scene immediately. Second tone, 30 seconds after initial dispatch, no takers from that agency?. Third tone, 1 minute later, tones for all 3 are used and broadcast for available emt/driver for the Town of Mt Pleasant. Still no one? Job originated in Valhalla (per say for this example), Hawthorne VAC has paid emt/driver with volunteer driver only avail, mutual aid enacted, HFD*EMS to scene as well and VVAC paid emt on scene already turns job over to HFD for transport and goes back in service. ALS job? Paid medic rides it in with the HFD paid emt and HFD vol driver. VVAC emt still needs to go back in service and now becomes first due for both... Good luck either way...

you pretty much described the town wide share-a-tech program, more or less. the idea emerged i believe in 2001 or 2002 (vcorrect me if im wrong) and is still not into effect as of today. why? because of insurance reasons for driver and tech. some tech choose not to drive there cars to the scene bc their bodies are covered by insurance, but their cars are not. there are so many flaws to it, but on paper it was an awesome idea.

[Guest]

How many of you would be in favor of a system like Greenburgh has? I know it's a money thing, but it works.

greenburgh's a great system, but for mt pleasant... i don't know. that would probably be up to the town board, because it's such an expensive system

[ny10570 745]

Oswego, isn't that an overly complicated system. 30 seconds isn't enough time for anyone to get anywhere especially in Mt. Pleasant during the day. I'm not one to play around and mosey on over an alarm, but even at that just to get across pleasantville is a 2 to 4 minute trip in your POV. Now you've got multiple people responding and its still taking too long. Also, the medic rides EVERY call in Mt. Pleasant. Three maybe 4 BLS and a medic would be fully capable of handling Mt. Pleasant and no one has been able to give me a single reasonable reason as to why this can't happen. We can put prehospital care back in the nads of the EMT's. As it is, by the time the bus gets there its just get the paperwork and transport the patient. The medic handles patient care. As a result the EMT's skills suffer. In my year with pvac I handled maybe 5 calls without ALS. The volunteers do an excellent job and the truth of the matter is pvac is held together by a small core of dedicated members who cannot keep up with current demands. One central location 24/7 staffing with crew quarters. Keep everything in house and you can reward these volunteers who protected the community for so long with these new jobs. For those that haave careers keep them on as part time or per-diem employees to cover sick leave and vacations.

I thought greenburgh trying to change their system, getting away from police officers running the buses and going to paid EMTs.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Oneeye,

First, unlike VACGUY I speak for myself and I am for a town wide ems system. Nuff said on that. Also, I was on the original ALS committee representing Hawthorne along with a few others and untill I resigned as chief had attended many ALS meetings so please tell me what the "real deal" is as you put it. I was and still am a big proponet of ALS in fact argued at length with some of the former powers to be about the necessity of ALS.

How many PAID PROFESSIONALS were on the ALS COMMITTEE? How many have worked in a real busy system and understand how EMS should work? That is what I mean by the REAL DEAL.

Let me start by saying to other people out there reading this that THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THE MT PLEASANT EMS SYSTEM. It is not falling apart by any means. I was simply trying to make a case for a TOWN WIDE PAID EMS SYSTEM. Just because the Town is 37. whatever square miles isn't the case. Mt Vernon is 4.4 Sq miles, White Plains 8.9 New Ro 10.3 and Yonkers 18.1. So we we have a greater land mass than the 4 major cities in the COUNTY. Maybe not Population but you didn't state that. The furthes point in Mt Pleasant is COUNTRY CLUB LN in BRIARCLIFF or what some consider POCANTICO. from PVAC going lights and sirens it could take probably 5 min to drive. Add that to the time it takes to page out the crew for them to respond to their building and get on the road it could 10-15min. When I worked in Northern Westchester it would take at least 10 min if not longer to get from NWHMC to NORTH SALEM. They list that as 12 miiles from the Hospital. Go and drive that one day. It takes FOREVER.

Here is another problem that I have. We dispatch the MEDIC to every call. We don't EMD so I guess we have too but if I get on the scene I can't cancel the MEDIC although I HAVE MEDICAL TRAINING. That is BS. KEEP the MEDIC in service for the more serious stuff. Plus the MEDIC can go to North Castle which means prob WPHMC which is a further down time. That means that when MEDIC 2 isn't doing their BS CEDARWOOD HALL/19 Bradhurst/WC JAIL/SUBNSHINE COTTAGE they might be able to respond to the real TAXPAYERS that need it. Make the SYSTEM a DUAL SYSTEM LIKE ROCKLAND PARAMEDIC SERVICE. That was awesome being over there. You get another job you roll and meet up with your partner when you can. Talk about an area to cover, that place is huge.

NY10570 I just reread your post and I am on board with you. It is not complicated at all but when you enter the POLITICS nobody want to budge. Worried about their next wet down or a PIECE OF EQUIPMENT That weighs 800lbs and works like crap. Why can't EMS go back to the orignal stretcher that 2 COMPETENT people could work. Now they have this BIG YELLOW thing that nobody can work and you need 8 people to lift. Plus it has a GENERATOR on it so you can land a plane or something. IF YOU CAN"T LIFT A PATIENT THEN DON"T GET INTO EMS. I am not your gopher and I am not your LACKEY to carry your bags. I did it all by myself for a long time. Up and down stairs with bags on my back. NO HELP FROM THE PD OR FD.

I liked GPD's system but at times you were taking an officer off the road to drive to the ER. Some of the times that person had no EMS experience at all and although and you were doing everything yourself. KINDA LIKE WORKING WITH VOLLIES.

Here's another thing that I noticed happened. Maybe not as much but it did. Crew can't get out so the only Crew Member asks if it is going to be ALS or BLS. If it is ALS then the MEDIC rides it in. If it is BLS then they just say tone out for MUTUAL AID. More time off the clock.

This how VVAC gets called. We get the call either 911, regular phone, or Fire Control. "Can you dispatch VVAC to..."

Tone out, wait 1-3 min, tone out again 1-3min, call for Mutual Aid. PVAC is dispatched VIA PPD so that is up to when they answer the phones and HVAC is by FIRE CONTROL. I guess I got off the point. Basically I don't care what PATCH YOU WEAR on your arm. In the END I wish that it would a MT PLEASANT EMS PATCH with PAID EMT's and MEDIC's.

[Guest partyrock]

Hold on a second there oneeye, two man stretcher... a lot of the FDNY buses are still rocking those and while they are light, reliable, and idiot proof they suck. A nice simple ferno 1 man is reliable, easy, not too heavy and a life saver on your back. I did my time with a two man and I definately don't miss it. Sounds like these the vollies went and got the battery powered stryker. Isn't there a better way to spend $10,000.

Vacguy, your an officer and it seems there are others here with some power to get something going. Why not going out and getting the public on yourside. Stand up at town meetings, write to the papers, get the info out there. Get the people on this thread who've been supporting you to take this out into the real world.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Well maybe you know how to use the STERNO 1 man, but nobody I see can use it alone. I liked the old stretcher because I could put it back in the BUS BY MYSELF. There is one that is electric. That is for the super lazy I guess. I mean come on now. Does it really hurt to lift something using your muscles? I guess it may be OBVIOUS that I don't like too much change. I guess if it's not broke then don't fix it. EMS IS BROKE that is why I want it fixed.

It respond to an earlier post about Scarsdale and Eastchester. Scarsdale had a paid MEDIC everyday for 12hr shifts. JOB was pretty easy except that sometimes and this is NO LIE you had to take the ambulance to a members house and pick them up before responding to a call. MEDIBART if you are out there you can attest to this. Happened to me all the time on SAT NIGHTS and MON MORNINGS. I hated that especially when the call was in opposite directions of where the VOLLIE lived. For the most part they always had a crew and they didn't really bust out b*lls. Of course you had to watch what you said around patients because they were mostly all SNOBS. Got in talked to about that once but I was in the right so I didn't care what they said.

Not sure about Easchester but I think it runs the same way. Medic in building but in a fly car. I guess Harrison, Port Chester and MEMS and Larchmont are about the same also. I guess other people that work there can chime in.

[ex-commish 490]

Oneeye,

How many PAID PROFESSIONALS were on the ALS COMMITTEE? How many have worked in a real busy system and understand how EMS should work? That is what I mean by the REAL DEAL.

I don't see why it is so relevant to have those who worked EMS in busy systems on a committee to establish ALS. I mean it was a no brainer. We needed ALS..period. The committee was formed to establish the need which we did and than establish the system which we also did which is the present system we now have in town which at an ALS prespective is working out well. The medics are great. . Blood and guts are a "real deal" wether it is in Mt. Pleasant or NYC.

[Guest]

Hold on a second there oneeye, two man stretcher... a lot of the FDNY buses are still rocking those and while they are light, reliable, and idiot proof they suck. A nice simple ferno 1 man is reliable, easy, not too heavy and a life saver on your back. I did my time with a two man and I definately don't miss it. Sounds like these the vollies went and got the battery powered stryker. Isn't there a better way to spend $10,000.

Vacguy, your an officer and it seems there are others here with some power to get something going. Why not going out and getting the public on yourside. Stand up at town meetings, write to the papers, get the info out there. Get the people on this thread who've been supporting you to take this out into the real world.

trust me i am. there are many people who would agree w/ me and there are many people i agree with. but, to get the to speak up is another story...like i said they are being repressed. i am slowly in the works on a particular mt pleasant medic situation that will be settled with in the next few weeks. of all the people who feel the way i do about the situation (which are just over a dozen that i know of) it was just me and a town board member who took the situation seriously and did something about it. the town board will vote on that issue in 2-3 weeks. like i said im a minority when it comes to many issues and situation, and minority work is a slooooow progress, but never-the-less, in progress.

i want the best for the people of the town, i live here too. is a paid service the best thing for the town, you bet. will it happen tomorrow, not a chance in hell. whats the next best thing?? do the best i can as a volunteer, and trust me its a job. i spend more time working on vac/town wide ems issues more that i spend at my paying job. its hassle, but its necessary.

and oswegowind, 32.7 miles is quite a big town if you ask me, and i asked around (for a more accurate #) and the town of mt pleasant did about 2000 ems calls last year, and thats quite a few calls for a bunch of vollies if you ask me.

[Oswegowind 17]

32.7 is the whole town...15% is water...the 4 areas focused on are Valhalla, about 2; Hawthorne, about 2; Pleasantville, about 2; and Thornwood, close to 4...that is square miles. By being an associate member via the joint effort of each VAC other than your primary where you are active, you are insured responding to calls.

30 seconds was meant as the time between dispatch and no one picking up a radio and calling in, not a response time...some may drive fast but I am not eluding to being beamed to the job...so make it a minute for someone to call in...reduce the time you are already waiting...obviously if no one calls in in the first 30-60 seconds why wait the full 3 minutes, so they can make up their mind...push them a bit by hitting the tones again and making them make that decision rather than think about what that job could entail. 3 minutes seems to give people a way out...oh maybe someone else will pick it up...

ALS rides every call in. Are you serious? Why even have EMTs????? You receive training for a reason and should not take the 1 paramedic out of service cause you are not comfortable with handling the case. Standard of care is one thing, but lets be realistic, not every job is ALS!

And the dispatch system needs some work...60 control maybe????? Might be a good idea!

[Guest]

And the dispatch system needs some work...60 control maybe????? Might be a good idea!

i agree all agencies should be dispatched by the same agency. by either mt pleasant pd or 60 control, i could care less which. although there is a "mt pleasant ems channel" and at one point all agencies were going to use it...who the hell knows what happened to that. valhalla vac is basically the only ones who use it. p-vac uses it to notify mt pleasant police when they are en route to thornwood for a call. people always say communication is the primary reason for f*ckin up...well proper communication was in the works and then failed just like everything else. every agency has 6 identical portables, anyone use them...nope. nothin is uniform, although officers and board members have been meeting once a month for 6-7 years and if something does get accomplished, its hardly worth bragging about. now each of the four agencies have a "task force," we'll see how well this works out.

[Guest]

Hold on a second there oneeye, two man stretcher... a lot of the FDNY buses are still rocking those and while they are light, reliable, and idiot proof they suck. A nice simple ferno 1 man is reliable, easy, not too heavy and a life saver on your back. I did my time with a two man and I definately don't miss it. Sounds like these the vollies went and got the battery powered stryker. Isn't there a better way to spend $10,000.

Vacguy, your an officer and it seems there are others here with some power to get something going. Why not going out and getting the public on yourside. Stand up at town meetings, write to the papers, get the info out there. Get the people on this thread who've been supporting you to take this out into the real world.

are the stryker electric stretchers are really $10,000??? p-vac is the only agency i know that has them and they now have three rigs! i really hope no one would spend $30,000 for 3 strechers.

[Medibart 55]

Geez Rob you are getting downright cranky as you get older. Maybe it's time for a Jameson's socket shot. Why are you getting me mixed up in your little tirade?

ScarVAC stopped that practice many years ago. One good thing they do is either they have someone on or they don't. If they don't they go mutual aid, no paging and praying. I can't remember the last time I didn't have someone on with me. If they can't find a volunteer driver, they'll pay an EMT or if absolutely necessary a medic to drive. Again it's better than hoping someone shows as you page and page. Now if we can only get into the new building....

Well maybe you know how to use the STERNO 1 man, but nobody I see can use it alone. I liked the old stretcher because I could put it back in the BUS BY MYSELF. There is one that is electric. That is for the super lazy I guess. I mean come on now. Does it really hurt to lift something using your muscles? I guess it may be OBVIOUS that I don't like too much change. I guess if it's not broke then don't fix it. EMS IS BROKE that is why I want it fixed.

It respond to an earlier post about Scarsdale and Eastchester. Scarsdale had a paid MEDIC everyday for 12hr shifts. JOB was pretty easy except that sometimes and this is NO LIE you had to take the ambulance to a members house and pick them up before responding to a call. MEDIBART if you are out there you can attest to this. Happened to me all the time on SAT NIGHTS and MON MORNINGS. I hated that especially when the call was in opposite directions of where the VOLLIE lived. For the most part they always had a crew and they didn't really bust out b*lls. Of course you had to watch what you said around patients because they were mostly all SNOBS. Got in talked to about that once but I was in the right so I didn't care what they said.

Not sure about Easchester but I think it runs the same way. Medic in building but in a fly car. I guess Harrison, Port Chester and MEMS and Larchmont are about the same also. I guess other people that work there can chime in.

[KelliPVAC 32]

I think this forum is getting crazy! What does the topic of Hawthorne and Empress have to do with PVAC's stretchers???? After having one member need a back operation, and want to prevent others we went with them. Two of our three trucks have the power stretcher. To some people they may not think they are worth the money, but we like them so thats all that matters. Other departments have looked at ours and are thinking of buying them as well.

I'm not sure if our new truck or our stetcher is the 800lb piece of crap, but the strecher doesn't weigh that much more than the other non-powered one. If our new truck was being called the 800lb piece of crap, that is certainly only your opion!

Like I said before this topic is getting old and I think it needs to end!!! Especially if other vac are being critized.

[Guest partyrock]

vacguy, someone has to be the one to take the lead. You've got the passion and you're in the position to do something. Take your case public. Give people the numbers...defibrillation within 5 minutes of a witness v-fib event results in a greater than 50% long term survival. CPR extends that window to 12 minutes. AMI treatment is most effective within 2 hours of onset yet it takes nearly 90 minutes for the average ER get a patient to the cath lab. 15 to 20 minutes waiting for the bus, 5 minutes to package, and 10 minute transport all of a sudden you're running out of time. Trauma patients have 60 minutes to get into the OR with 30 minutes killed in the ER and radiology even a quick scoop and run of the guy laid out on the road starts getting close. Its time to start educating the public about the services they're getting.

[Guest]

vacguy, someone has to be the one to take the lead. You've got the passion and you're in the position to do something. Take your case public. Give people the numbers...defibrillation within 5 minutes of a witness v-fib event results in a greater than 50% long term survival. CPR extends that window to 12 minutes. AMI treatment is most effective within 2 hours of onset yet it takes nearly 90 minutes for the average ER get a patient to the cath lab. 15 to 20 minutes waiting for the bus, 5 minutes to package, and 10 minute transport all of a sudden you're running out of time. Trauma patients have 60 minutes to get into the OR with 30 minutes killed in the ER and radiology even a quick scoop and run of the guy laid out on the road starts getting close. Its time to start educating the public about the services they're getting.

i hear you 100%, and i thank you for being insightful. i try to do what i can, but this is not a one man mission and need extra man power (10-13!!) and i need people to fight for what they believe in w/o consequences of their views (which is sadly the case). i will be printing out this forum and keeping it for new ideas in the future.

New Topic...in some vacs people have been getting stipends (small hourly payments). officers are doing this to get a better grip on the vollies. it sure is cheaper than going paid, but some say you volunteer to volunteer. although volunteer commissioners and some cheifs get stipends worth a few thousand dollars per year, why not vollies ems!?!

in doing this vollies must stay in quarters when on-call...please tell me what you think about this and do you think this could solve the problem (Permanent or Temporary) ??

[Goose 188]

vacguy, someone has to be the one to take the lead. You've got the passion and you're in the position to do something. Take your case public. Give people the numbers...defibrillation within 5 minutes of a witness v-fib event results in a greater than 50% long term survival. CPR extends that window to 12 minutes. AMI treatment is most effective within 2 hours of onset yet it takes nearly 90 minutes for the average ER get a patient to the cath lab. 15 to 20 minutes waiting for the bus, 5 minutes to package, and 10 minute transport all of a sudden you're running out of time. Trauma patients have 60 minutes to get into the OR with 30 minutes killed in the ER and radiology even a quick scoop and run of the guy laid out on the road starts getting close. Its time to start educating the public about the services they're getting.

i hear you 100%, and i thank you for being insightful. i try to do what i can, but this is not a one man mission and need extra man power (10-13!!) and i need people to fight for what they believe in w/o consequences of their views (which is sadly the case). i will be printing out this forum and keeping it for new ideas in the future.

New Topic...in some vacs people have been getting stipends (small hourly payments). officers are doing this to get a better grip on the vollies. it sure is cheaper than going paid, but some say you volunteer to volunteer. although volunteer commissioners and some cheifs get stipends worth a few thousand dollars per year, why not vollies ems!?!

in doing this vollies must stay in quarters when on-call...please tell me what you think about this and do you think this could solve the problem (Permanent or Temporary) ??

Ok, first thing first. Why can't VACs take heat just like every other agency in the EMS world? Are you immune to the same criticisms i am because your a volunteer? If anything, i should be the one bitching because i'm, more often than not, held to a much higher standard and some of you people get away with murder. As far as your stretchers, i suggest you roll your people out in how to properly lift, my partner and i wrestled a 550pd guy onto our stretcher 2 weeks ago with little problem and no injuries.

If you're getting a "stipend" your not volunteering. Plain and simple. People need to stop trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the public. There is no middle ground. You either make it work as volunteers or you go fully paid, plain and simple. If you need to wave $100 bills in front of membership's face to muster a crew, you surely don't desrve to call yourself volunteer...or a paid professional. Sound's like you've got some serious problems on your plate, pal.

[Guest]

Ok, first thing first. Why can't VACs take heat just like every other agency in the EMS world? Are you immune to the same criticisms i am because your a volunteer? If anything, i should be the one bitching because i'm, more often than not, held to a much higher standard and some of you people get away with murder. As far as your stretchers, i suggest you roll your people out in how to properly lift, my partner and i wrestled a 550pd guy onto our stretcher 2 weeks ago with little problem and no injuries.

If you're getting a "stipend" your not volunteering. Plain and simple. People need to stop trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the public. There is no middle ground. You either make it work as volunteers or you go fully paid, plain and simple. If you need to wave $100 bills in front of membership's face to muster a crew, you surely don't desrve to call yourself volunteer...or a paid professional. Sound's like you've got some serious problems on your plate, pal.

you're right people get so offensive everytime you judge them in a negative way...for many its either good criticism or no criticism. as far as to vollie, stipend or paid; i could give a s*** who does what. for me, its whatever gets the job done. and many agencies are doing VERY well w/ the stipends. like everything else, its just a thought. by the way whos to say only vollie comissionsers should get stipends anyways??

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

SCott I have always been cranky, it's not because of old age. I will not disagree that I could go for socket shot though. HFD if you are in a fire are you more apt to listen to a Paid FF or someone that just goes to drills and maybe the occasional fire? That is my point. I know that it was a no brainer to have ALS. The thing is, the people on the COMMITTEE may not know about paid services and the way they work. I do, and that is why I would have loved to be asked my input. I am not saying that I can change anything but I do have some good input.

Kelli I understand about the bad back. I just think that the stretcher is cumbersome whether it has a battery or not. I have seen time and time again more than two people attempt to work these new stretchers.

Well here is a test. Leave MPPD, VVAC, HVAC, and PVAC and drive to the furthest point in MT Pleasant. I will not disagree that the odds of VVAC going all the way out there may be unheard of but not in an MCI. I know that we have water but it is probably 5+ miles to the TOWN BORDER.

[RWC130 594]

I give A LOT of credit to ANY of the Westchester County VAC's that:

1. Recognize they have a manpower issue. (most hide that fact) and abuse mutual aid.

2. Take steps to correct/fix the manpower issue. (membership drive / paid staff)

3. Above ALL remember the most important goal here....Get the Ambulance staffed and out the door!

Paid daytime staff is a very common practice over in Orange County, NY with several VAC's

and it works well.

The life YOU save may be that of your own loved one!

PS What VAC has free passes to the POOL?

Get me an application! lol

KelliPVAC,

Like I said before this topic is getting old and I think it needs to end!!! Especially if other vac are being critized.

I agree, and it will now.

Thanks