Hawthorne FD*EMS and Empress EMS

[x635 4,066]

Recently, I was encouraged to hear that Hawthorne FD has taken a very progressive and responsible move.

As we all know from listening to 46.26, Hawthorne has had trouble getting an ambulance out weekdays. Hawthorne's population increases a lot during weekdays as well.

I was told that during weekdays, Hawthorne FD has contracted with Empress EMS to provide EMT's.

Peekskill EMS also has a similar deal with Empress, and I believe Valhalla VAC has one with Metrocare.

Kudos to these agencies for being responsible and taking action to address a problem when people's lives are at stake, instead of covering it up or denying it like other agencies do.

Although I do hope one day these positions will be civil service with a pension, but that's a whole 'nother story.

[ex-commish 490]

Athough I do hope one day these positions will be civil service with a pension, but that's a whole 'nother story.

I hope to see us get out of the ems business and see it go town wide but that is another story as well...

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

You can give all the kudos you want. It still doesn't change the fact that some of these agencies can't get a crew out after the PAID person leaves. Just go paid and we won't have to discuss this anymore.

[x129K 1,393]

You can give all the kudos you want. It still doesn't change the fact that some of these agencies can't get a crew out after the PAID person leaves. Just go paid and we won't have to discuss this anymore.

Agreed.

[Guest]

You can give all the kudos you want. It still doesn't change the fact that some of these agencies can't get a crew out after the PAID person leaves. Just go paid and we won't have to discuss this anymore.

I couldnt agree more.EMS should not be a hobby and should not be for profit, EMS should be EMS nothing else.......hey rob is that you???

[Oswegowind 17]

When does this begin? Or did it already? And what is the uniform requirements...is it simple empressems emt light blue with their logos or is Hawthorne coming up with their own?

[Goose 188]

Yeah, Empress EMTs have been there for a bit. I can only hope that they wear their own uniform and not Hawthorne's. Contracting out paid personnel and then having them the wear that agencey's uniform is the biggest scam going if you ask me.

[Oswegowind 17]

Well in Yorktown, the Empress medics wear the Empress EMS uniform with a Yorktown ALS patch...I am pretty sure but RU911 will be able to clarify this I am sure!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I couldnt agree more.EMS should not be a hobby and should not be for profit, EMS should be EMS nothing else.......hey rob is that you???

It depends on who's asking.

[Guest]

I couldnt agree more.EMS should not be a hobby and should not be for profit, EMS should be EMS nothing else.......hey rob is that you???

I also agree, but when you have 4 ems agencies in the same town, its hard. i would love to see a town wide ems agency (whether paid or vollie is another story). but either way it is a great step in the proper direction. the problem lies within the members of the four agencies in the town. members like THEIR agency, and are so f*ckin territorial…I can’t stand it!! I do believe that those people may not be doing this for ALL the right reasons.

Whether paid or vollie, once town wide, I believe is not up to me (as an officer). Its up to the town board, board of directors of the agencies and of course the taxpayers of the town because everything will be done w/ tax money, not private funds. As a member and officer, this is only wishful thinking, but not my call.

[NYMedic37 22]

I couldnt agree more.EMS should not be a hobby and should not be for profit, EMS should be EMS nothing else.......hey rob is that you???

=== Hey I'm with ya' all the way. EMS should not be a Hobby or for profit. People that do EMS as a hobby tend to be more interested in the lights and sirens and seeing the wrecks more then administering quality patient care. EMS for profit is also a no-no because private ambulance services always look to save money by providing low bid vehicles, equiptment and underpaying thier EMT's and Paramedics. If yu are not an EMT, Paramedic or a patient, you do NOT belong on an ambulance.

Paul Aiello

[Goose 188]

I also agree, but when you have 4 ems agencies in the same town, its hard. i would love to see a town wide ems agency (whether paid or vollie is another story). but either way it is a great step in the proper direction. the problem lies within the members of the four agencies in the town. members like THEIR agency, and are so f*ckin territorial…I can’t stand it!! I do believe that those people may not be doing this for ALL the right reasons.

Whether paid or vollie, once town wide, I believe is not up to me (as an officer). Its up to the town board, board of directors of the agencies and of course the taxpayers of the town because everything will be done w/ tax money, not private funds. As a member and officer, this is only wishful thinking, but not my call.

Problem 1: The public has no idea that they are getting sub standard EMS service.

Problem 2: Good luck finding a politician willing to tackle a volunteer agency's problems, for some reason they are apparently exempt from the same standards and criticisms career agencies are

The thing that always cracks me up is how much power VACs have. Just like you say, the membership is the leading opposition from a consolidated/combination (essentially more effective) system. The vast majority of these "experts" on the issue have no experience outside xyz vac or myhome USA. That lunacy just prooves that they have no genuine desire to care for their fellow citizens - they just want to get their buff trip, play hero and get in their name in the paper. Do your resident's a favor and bring in someone to do a honest third-party study and offer recommendations on how to improve the system.

At the end of the day, this isn't a hobby nor is it a game. If you can't guarantee your resident's the timely service they deserve, be honesty about it and take steps to mitigate. I'm tired of seeing crap agencies operating with impunity, pulling the wool over their resident's eyes, and gladly - with no second thought - sucking up those donations and taking that chunk of cash from the town. Meanwhile, you can't even get a crew 80% of the time and have to be covered by a career agency.

There are proactive VACs and Rescue Squads out there, don't get me wrong - and these should be praised, but they becoming the exception not the norm.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Goose

[KelliPVAC 32]

I think this whole topic about Hawthorne is getting a little old. Hawthorne did what they had to do. As far as I know it is working out very well for them. No, I don't know what kind of uniform the paid EMT wears, but if the issue is patient care, what difference does it make if it says Empress or Hawthorne. The patient is getting the care they need and thats whats important.

And in our in town contract the paramedics wear a Transcare patch, they don't wear a Pleasantville, Hawthorne, Valhalla or Sleepy Hollow. So the patch should not matter.

I commend Hawthorne that they fixed the issue, and the patients aren't being billed on top of their fire tax.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I also agree, but when you have 4 ems agencies in the same town, its hard. i would love to see a town wide ems agency (whether paid or vollie is another story). but either way it is a great step in the proper direction. the problem lies within the members of the four agencies in the town. members like THEIR agency, and are so f*ckin territorial…I can’t stand it!! I do believe that those people may not be doing this for ALL the right reasons.

Whether paid or vollie, once town wide, I believe is not up to me (as an officer). Its up to the town board, board of directors of the agencies and of course the taxpayers of the town because everything will be done w/ tax money, not private funds. As a member and officer, this is only wishful thinking, but not my call.

Do yoy think that your officers and the officers of the other VAC's want to give up their BS position? NO. That is why it won't happen. They can't get along as it is now and you want them to try and get along in a TOWN wide EMS system.

Since I was once involved in VOLUNTEER EMS I can say that territorial is not the word. I could never understand that. I thought that people were there to help other people. There is way too many POLITICS with VOLLIES. Just answer your page, get to your building and go to the call. Don't ask a million questions and by all means DO NOT QUESTION the dispatcher who dispatches you.

VACGUY speaking from experience I think that MT PLEASANT should be a TOWN WIDE PAID SERVICE. Have a Central location that all the AMBULANCES are parked with a fully staffed crew 24/7. Of course you will need more than one crew but you get my point. There is no reason that a person should wait for and AMBULANCE at anytime but mostly after midnight because a crew has to get out of bed, call the police for the location, get dressed, drive to the ambulance corp, then wait for the rest of the crew to respond. You are looking at a 10 min response time right there. I have times to prove it if somebody wants to debate me. This isn't happening only on midnights either.

I know that some of you out there are PRO VOLUNTEER but you have to realize that is just isn't feasable anymore. Your care and dedication has been noted. Time to find another HOBBY.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Problem 1: The public has no idea that they are getting sub standard EMS service.

Problem 2: Good luck finding a politician willing to tackle a volunteer agency's problems, for some reason they are apparently exempt from the same standards and criticisms

The thing that always cracks me up is how much power VACs have. Just like you say, the membership is the leading opposition from a consolidated/combination (essentially more effective) system. The vast majority of these "experts" on the issue have no experience outside xyz vac or myhome USA. That lunacy just prooves that they have no genuine desire to care for their fellow citizens - they just want to get their buff trip, play hero and get in their name in the paper. Do your resident's a favor and bring in someone to do a honest third-party study and offer recommendations on how to improve the system.

You hit it right on the head. They have too much power. GOD FORBID I say something to somebody on a call and it hurts their feelings. They tell their CAPT who will prob call my boss. Not that I care. I prob have more EMS experience than have of the people in the AMB Corps and if I see them doing something wrong I let them know it.

Everyone should HAVE TO WORK in a BUSY system for 1 month around the clock and see how EMS is really done. It is not about bringing a clipboard into the house and getting Pedigree when someone is sick or hurt. It is not about TEXT book answers and assessments. Just because you can splint a fake HUMEROUS FX during an exam does not make you and expert on splinting FX's out in the field. EVERY PT is different that is why there is NO COMPLETE WRONG WAY TO TREAT A PT.

I don't care if the MEDIC/EMT wears his/her pajamas on a call. The UNIFORM OR PATCH DOES MAKE THE MEDIC/EMT. It is their knowledge of what is going on with the PT that should make all the difference.

[Goose 188]

I think this whole topic about Hawthorne is getting a little old. Hawthorne did what they had to do. As far as I know it is working out very well for them. No, I don't know what kind of uniform the paid EMT wears, but if the issue is patient care, what difference does it make if it says Empress or Hawthorne. The patient is getting the care they need and thats whats important.

And in our in town contract the paramedics wear a Transcare patch, they don't wear a Pleasantville, Hawthorne, Valhalla or Sleepy Hollow. So the patch should not matter.

I commend Hawthorne that they fixed the issue, and the patients aren't being billed on top of their fire tax.

So you've got paid EMTs that are not members, but the resident's wouldn't know because they are wearing your uniforms. Thats deceit if you ask me. Let's be honest with our citizens. What about those thank you cards or small donations (for calls handled by the paid crew), where do they go?

Edited July 17, 2007 by Goose

[Guest]

i have a few responses...

1. who cares about billing. if you get around the mumbo jumbo legal terms, you can decide to only bill the insurance co and not the pt AND not raise taxes. but people don't do that. why?? because is DOES take a lot of extra work and extra time, but what do i call that...dedication. in my vac we dish out a lot of money to pay transcare per diem during the day, we just replenish those funds. its legal and a responsible thing to do to not ask for a tax raise!!

2. i know other officers, board members and general membership do not want to give up there vac's, but what can a few people who want to push townwide ems and are up against literally...hundreds who are against it.

3. oneeyed...i'm not sure what you mean by "questioning the dispatcher." i've never even heard of someone questioning the dispatcher. you got a vague example?

4.going outside of hometown, usa and "my-vac" or whatever it's called is very important. you need to see what others are doing to broaden you own ideas.

5. ems companies (no names) are the worst of ems, i agree on that

6. as far as "the proper patch." not really something i care about

7. ems should not be a hobby. way back when it was, but i agree it can no longer be a hobbie, but most members in most vacs i see, view ems that way.

8. i disagree that if your not a tech or medic, you don't belong on an ambulance. i think many people would not be doing ems if they didn't ride as a third or assistant in a vac. i praise that idea.

....gotta run, i'll be back to further comment.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Some people join VAC's because they get FREE membership to the LOCAL POOL. BS if you ask me.

Let's just say that a person should not be corrected on DISPATCH techniques and or what they say on the radio. There are just certain people that like to cause problems because they think they have pull. That is all I am going to say. Typical VOLLEY BS.

I think that if the COMMUNITY knew that there were other ways of doing EMS they may be opted to CHANGE. When I get to an EMS call I try and tell the PT and/or the family that we are waiting on a VOLUNTEER service and that is what the delay is. I try and tell them about how much quicker a paid service would be. And it would be quicker. ALOT quicker. Most people in this Community probably have no idea what the MEDIC does or how the MEDIC can DRASTICALLY change the outcome of their condition.

Can you believe that there are/were people around that did not BELIEVE in ALS. I think that is still an issue although it is a little better. Medics in this town are put under a HUGE microscope. If something is done that the VOLLEYS don't like, that MEDIC could be removed from the system. Who gave them the right to decide who works here?

The problem is the Companies who EMPLOY the medics listen to every little thing that a VOLLEY says because they are afraid of losing the CONTRACT. Why didn't HAWTHORNE just go with a TRANSCARE EMT? They had to be different and go with EMPRESS. Not that I care because at least they can get a crew out during the day now. Well sometimes they can. When is PVAC going to get on the ball and get a PAID EMT during the day?

I would be happy to pay more taxes to know that I am going to get the best MEDICAL CARE when I needed it. Not waiting around for 15min for an ambulance to get there.

[Oswegowind 17]

I was asking an innocent question...I believe that Hawthorne took a STEP in the right direction in this case, however there are still issues that can be resolved. Nothing is ever perfect. Patient care is important but every time you question someone's judgment on this site people go defensive because they believe there is no other way to see it! I do agree with the comment about a town-wide system...A few years ago, when I did volunteer for 2 ambulance organizations while working for a 3rd I realized that a town-wide agreement could go a long way! After consulting with a number of persons we kind of got around the individual agency thing and made it so a member of 1 service could ride in a job on another service's unit in order to cover the call in a timely fashion, sort of similar to the medic riding in a job cause an agency can't get the proper crew together. If one agency got a job and an EMT made it to the call, the mutual aid agency would get a driver and send the "bus", I rode in a call for a few different agencies during this time and filled out the ACR in the jurisdictions name cause it was really their job. EMT is a statewide recognized title, not an individual agency. An EMT has to follow state and remac protocols...it really doesn't matter what the side of the ambulance says, but allowing an emt of an organization that is your neighbor to help you out once in a while would not hurt, and may cover that whole patient care issue!

As for the comment of "paid" ems agencies...slow down cause a lot of those that get paid do a very good job and don't shame the name of EMS one bit!

[Guest]

i do know there are people who use the vfd's/vac's for the pool pass, and its pretty sad. naturally, they're people that don't do a thing. as far as telling pt that there could have been a better way, while on scene...i'm all for educating the public, but doing so on scene might not be the best time to tell the pt's. and yes, i do know there were people who "didn't believe in ALS." and i know exactly who they are, and i persdonally do not like them...and they're the people who want to be the heros. quite pathetic, if you aske me.

as far as p-vac getting on the ball...they have a 1970's or 80's mentality which is all about vollie vollie vollie or me me me. (not my words...like i said, its a rep) they need to get in line and realize it's not about volunteering anymore, its about making sure the rig gets out in a timely fashion. i am a vollie (obviously), when i'm on-call, 90% of the time im in quarters, i don't give a fliying f*ck who gets the rig out the door, whether its a vollie or a paid guy, i could care less, as along as the rig gets out the door in a few mins (4-5min max). the problem is, not everybody thinks or feels that way...and they have heard me b**** about it.

the other problem is, people do sometimes wait 15 min for a bus, just like anywhere else. but you really think people think about this stuff prior to ever needing an ambulance?? my guess is not. thats why education the pt's on scene may not be the best move. education prior to needing one is best. i try my very best to be in quarters everytime im on-call. when im on-call, my crew beats pd and/or fd and we roll up at the same time. a quick response time is one of the most important thigs...and by all means that does not mean to drive like an a$$hole to the scene. people tend to drive like a$$holes to the scene when it takes them 10 mins to get to the vac.

oneeyedmic, you have many good points although i think you may be unorthodox maybe thats what the town needs, maybe im too soft. i don't know, but either way something has to be done and as great as a forum as this is, and as mush as it inspires people to think (even in an unorthodix manner!), it gets people to think outside of the box (very important). but getting the town to move foward and educating the public probably won't happen in this forum. you, myself and only at most dozen or so people (that i know of) are willing to work on this. but im not willing to go to war w/ others about this...at least not just yet. like you said ems has too much politics in it, but this issue is 100% all about the politics.

[Guest]

I also agree, but when you have 4 ems agencies in the same town, its hard. i would love to see a town wide ems agency (whether paid or vollie is another story). but either way it is a great step in the proper direction. the problem lies within the members of the four agencies in the town. members like THEIR agency, and are so f*ckin territorial…I can’t stand it!! I do believe that those people may not be doing this for ALL the right reasons.

Whether paid or vollie, once town wide, I believe is not up to me (as an officer). Its up to the town board, board of directors of the agencies and of course the taxpayers of the town because everything will be done w/ tax money, not private funds. As a member and officer, this is only wishful thinking, but not my call.

im replying to my own thread to keep the peace..well whats left of it. when i said "THEIR agency," i meant members only want to deal w/ their people, their rigs, their problems...etc. i wasn't throwing blame on all agengies excluding mine, i was throwing blame on all agencies INCLUDING mine. every agency has those type of people, my agency is no exception.

[Guest WCDES636]

All I want to sya is thanks to Oneeyed for the " Don't question your Dispatch!" But sadly that will never stop. Some don't realize that there are many years of experience in Fire, EMS, and some Law Enforcement behind the microphone.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

WCDES636 your right it will never change. I don't like to say that I am buffy, but I do have a scanner in my room and never turn it off. I like to know what goes on around the COUNTY. I don't go to scene's and I don't go to work unless I get called in. Just like to listen. That is the extent of my BUFFINESS. I have heard and talked to many a dispatchers on the phone. Some are great and some are horrible. I think the horrible one's may be because they are busy or they think that the person they are talking too on the other end of the phone doesn't understand certain aspects of dispatching.

VACGUY how am I unorthodox? I just say what is on my mind. Here is my problem. When Mt Pleasant started their MEDIC system I was the FIRST MEDIC in TOWN and the FIRST to do an ALS call. Of course growing up here I knew lots of people. When I started to work as a MEDIC I met many more VOLUNTEERS. Some I like and MOST I HATE. Sorry if I took all your fun away(you know who you are) but it was too better the TOWN. You may not like ALS till your family member needs it then you will understand how important it is. I know there is some ALS committee for MT PLEASANT not sure who is on it but it is not the people who know what the REAL DEAL is. Since I grew up in this TOWN, worked in this TOWN as a MEDIC and NOW work in this TOWN doing other things, I think that my input could be used. I have never once been asked my opinion. Maybe my opinion doesn't matter, but since I have been doing this for some time now and have seen many different systems it shouldn't hurt to listent to what I have to say. I KNOW THAT THE TRUTH HURTS and the people who are against a PAID SYSTEM are the ones that DON"T WANT TO ADMIT TO THE TRUTH.

[Guest]

WCDES636 your right it will never change. I don't like to say that I am buffy, but I do have a scanner in my room and never turn it off. I like to know what goes on around the COUNTY. I don't go to scene's and I don't go to work unless I get called in. Just like to listen. That is the extent of my BUFFINESS. I have heard and talked to many a dispatchers on the phone. Some are great and some are horrible. I think the horrible one's may be because they are busy or they think that the person they are talking too on the other end of the phone doesn't understand certain aspects of dispatching.

VACGUY how am I unorthodox? I just say what is on my mind. Here is my problem. When Mt Pleasant started their MEDIC system I was the FIRST MEDIC in TOWN and the FIRST to do an ALS call. Of course growing up here I knew lots of people. When I started to work as a MEDIC I met many more VOLUNTEERS. Some I like and MOST I HATE. Sorry if I took all your fun away(you know who you are) but it was too better the TOWN. You may not like ALS till your family member needs it then you will understand how important it is. I know there is some ALS committee for MT PLEASANT not sure who is on it but it is not the people who know what the REAL DEAL is. Since I grew up in this TOWN, worked in this TOWN as a MEDIC and NOW work in this TOWN doing other things, I think that my input could be used. I have never once been asked my opinion. Maybe my opinion doesn't matter, but since I have been doing this for some time now and have seen many different systems it shouldn't hurt to listent to what I have to say. I KNOW THAT THE TRUTH HURTS and the people who are against a PAID SYSTEM are the ones that DON"T WANT TO ADMIT TO THE TRUTH.

by unorthodox, it seems you have a very different approach than i've seen in the past. to put in one word...blunt. but like i said, maybe we should start to be that way. you're right there is an ALS meeting w/ transcare people and mt pleasant vac people...nothing ever gets accomplished, thats why i stopped attending them quite some time ago. i blame transcare, the company is too big to give a s*** as to what we want and need. maybe hawthorne went with the better of the ems agencies to hire. because we have transcare at the vac too and any issue we tell the higher-ups at transcare, doesn't get sloved. i actually heard through the grapevine that transcare wants us to drop their contract because they are losing money on us!! but i will not get in to the details i have heard. you know as well as i do that the same people have been running the ems in the town for a long time...many say too long. nothing changes, it just slooooowly progresses. its not good enough. i love to volunteer, i really do. but, an increase in call volume (about doubled in a decade) and decrease in members, well it's never a good situation. i listen to everyone about any ideas, ask anyone. i love to hear what people got. you might want to reconsider volunteer ems, so you can speak and be heard. you speak in the best interests of the community, whether its pro-vollie or con-vollie...whats best for the community is whats best for the community, enough said.

[ex-commish 490]

you might want to reconsider volunteer ems, so you can speak and be heard. you speak in the best interests of the community, whether its pro-vollie or con-vollie...whats best for the community is whats best for the community, enough said.

So now someone has to volunteer to speak and be heard???

[Guest]

So now someone has to volunteer to speak and be heard???

nope, but to fully know how we as vac's operate, you might want to be apart of one for a some time to fully understand, we have our own frustrations and that we do try damn hard, thats why.

[x129K 1,393]

Blunt???? Good term!

[Guest paramedico987]

To answer the uniform question in Hawthorne:

Left Sleeve Empress Patch

Right Sleeve Hawthorne Patch

They got into a pissing match about that, both saying that thier agency MUST be represented, but the level of care patch is nowhere to be found... I guess when you pick up a Hawthorne shift you're just an AMBULANCE DRIVER!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

That is why MT PLEASANT NEEDS IT'S OWN EMS SYSTEM. You can deal within the DEPT if there are problems. I worked for Transcare for a long time and I know there bosses. They do back stab and don't usually do the right thing. Haven't worked at EMPRESS in 10 years so I have no idea what the deal is. I don't think that they should change who works here as a MEDIC. Most of us are used to who is here and to change now will only bring us down some notches.

Do like EASTCHESTER, SCARSDALE and other VAC's do and HIRE WITHIN. If I really wanted to get involved I would. Not sure how many bridges I want to burn. You have to be BLUNT in this business. I still have a passion for EMS just don't want to do it anymore.

[Guest]

i do agree, the medics in mt pleasant are great people and great medics. they will tell you if you did something incorrectly and they will give you their professional opinion on how to do it better. i can't say enought about them, and at my agency the medics have a key and and are free to watch tv, use the computer, rest in a crew room, eat, etc, and we have a great relationship w/ the medics because of this.

as much as people do not like to say volunteer ems is political, it is. as officers you have two choices in style, democratic or dictator. you can bark orders or listen to what everyone has to say, even though it may bore you to death. i've never once barked an order. everything i say is in the form of a question. so being blunt to the people of the general membership can't happen, but i can be blunt to other officers, board of directors, town board members.

oneeyed, you mentioned scarsdale and eastchester, i do not know how they operate; but i do have little knowledge about larchmont and i am interested in the way they operate. i hope to learn more about them in the future and i'll ask around about the other two towns.