Complacency? Or just plain Lazy.

[firemoose827 324]

I just wanted to brush on a subject that bothers me a lot, it was brought up in another post about training and I wanted to start a thread dedicated to this subject to see how much input we can get.

You are starting to see it everywhere, including drills now...Complacency. Why does it happen with us? Why do officers let it get this bad, to the point where we bury yet another one of our bretheren? For what? To stay cooler at a drill? To not have to clean all of your gear after the call? It amazes me today, to see so much haphazard accidents and stupid mistakes even AFTER reading about all of the death and injuries on the job. Ironically enough it happens to all of us too; how many times do any of you read about, or watch a video about a stupid accident somewhere, on this site, and start picking them apart and throwing your jabs, but than you go on your own call and dont follow all safety procedures? Come on, dont be shy.

It happens TOO much, and I am tired of seeing our brothers and sisters get burried because they took a shortcut, or didnt want to wear everything for this "routine call". Here is a routine call I found online somewhere;

Is he in a hurry to get back to dinner? It takes 1 minute to don your gear, ALL of your gear, ( well, for most of us it may take a little longer )

What could happen with this "routine call"? We need to send a better message to everyone about safety and not becoming complacent. I am constantly made fun of because I wear all of my gear responding to, during, and returning from all calls, and it doesnt bother me one bit. If, knock on wood, we ever get into an accident returning to quarters, I will have my gear on and seatbelt, what will happen to my brothers?

Please, everyone, stay SAFE, and pass it on to everyone. If you see someone without a helmet on smack 'em in the head. If you see someone without a hood, yank on their ears. Do what you can to promote safety, not complacency, on the fireground and hopefully the LODD toll will drop. What do you say?

[JTF429 37]

:angry: Ok I will now stand on my soap box and reply. I am a career firefighter and it happens with us to.Alot of it begins with their intial taining in firefighter 1. As a state instructor I am constantly hassaled about running my classes like probie school. Good habits are just as hard to break as bad ones. Are we as a whole doing a good job promoting safety. What do we do about members that drive a 100 to an AFA with their blue lights going. How about the guy who drove a car his whole life and now within 2 months drives a tanker code 3 because we need drivers. Do you have a mandatory seat belt rule in your department? Do you have a mentor program that encourages the senior men to show the probies how to be safe. Are we encourgeing are members to stay heart healthy and work out. As you know departments are crushed with mandatory training but how about the basics. We spend alot of time teaching them how to bail out a window head first but not enough time understanding basic firefighting skills. OK enough rambaling. I agree and nice post to generate discussion.

I just wanted to brush on a subject that bothers me a lot, it was brought up in another post about training and I wanted to start a thread dedicated to this subject to see how much input we can get.

You are starting to see it everywhere, including drills now...Complacency. Why does it happen with us? Why do officers let it get this bad, to the point where we bury yet another one of our bretheren? For what? To stay cooler at a drill? To not have to clean all of your gear after the call? It amazes me today, to see so much haphazard accidents and stupid mistakes even AFTER reading about all of the death and injuries on the job. Ironically enough it happens to all of us too; how many times do any of you read about, or watch a video about a stupid accident somewhere, on this site, and start picking them apart and throwing your jabs, but than you go on your own call and dont follow all safety procedures? Come on, dont be shy.

It happens TOO much, and I am tired of seeing our brothers and sisters get burried because they took a shortcut, or didnt want to wear everything for this "routine call". Here is a routine call I found online somewhere;

Is he in a hurry to get back to dinner? It takes 1 minute to don your gear, ALL of your gear, ( well, for most of us it may take a little longer )

What could happen with this "routine call"? We need to send a better message to everyone about safety and not becoming complacent. I am constantly made fun of because I wear all of my gear responding to, during, and returning from all calls, and it doesnt bother me one bit. If, knock on wood, we ever get into an accident returning to quarters, I will have my gear on and seatbelt, what will happen to my brothers?

Please, everyone, stay SAFE, and pass it on to everyone. If you see someone without a helmet on smack 'em in the head. If you see someone without a hood, yank on their ears. Do what you can to promote safety, not complacency, on the fireground and hopefully the LODD toll will drop. What do you say?

[Guest]

Sometimes people need reminders. Use the firehouse bulletin board once a month, maybe even once every two weeks to post up real life situations that injured or killed fellow FF's as a reminder that it can happen. Unfortunately learning from ones mistakes is the way we learn, the problem is we need to stop making the same mistakes. Reminders such as that photo are a start to remembering ones mistakes that can be deadly. Just like training to keep thing fresh in your mind, photos and general reminders can help. There was a sticker placed in a mirror once that read (the only person responsible for your safety is the one looking at you).

[MFVFD179 0]

I think what also plays a roll is people calling calls 'B.S.' calls. You get your 'routine' AFA and don't even put a pack on or even gear up unless you hear a working fire. Then you roll up to the fire or what have you and you are in a true emergency and now you have to rush even more because you aren't ready. Your mind is now thinking about more than it has to and you go into overload mentally. Then you have to run from the truck to the scene (which you shouldn''t run in the first pace, but you are behind so you want to catch up), and you increase your heart rate more than it has to be and you can't perform to you fullest ability or you have to stop and catch your breath and slow your crew down even more. Obviously you should be able to handle the call because as you said earlier, wasn't it just a routine b.s. call?

My point is.. not being able to help your crew because you were slow at a 'routine b.s.' call could hurt you or one of your crew members. No call is the same, even if they are dispatched the same way at the same location. BE SAFE, YOU ALWAYS COME FIRST!!!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

JTF...I don't know who is hassling you but I also run a very tight ship in regard to my FF 1's and I have gotten nothing but positive feedback and much of my colleauges also run disciplined courses. This is a profession, one that will get your a** killed if you don't know what your doing, respect it and learn from others, FF 1 should be an excellent experience for any student with the seriousness it deserves as well. If anyone doesn't like it, there is the Elk's Club.

Good topic, we don't learn from mistakes and tradgedies.

You can't fix stupid.

And its not always a case of "they won't give us the money." Its usually the person asking for the money (if they really do at all.)

[AFS1970 504]

The story that always makes me remember this is one time I was part of a crew going to an Alarm call, automatic aid into another district. It was summer time and my helmet was sitting on the doghouse my coat was in my lap. Across the rig from me was a senior man and past officer who was suiting up, and grabing an air pack off of the standing rack next to him. He looked over at me and yelled to me to get dressed. I said it was a BS call and we were probably going to get canceled anyway. His reply was probably one of the most simple yet true statements on the topic there could be:

Yes, but what if we don't?

Despite our high false alarm rates, what if this is the call where it all goes to you know where in a handbasket. I am just as guilty as the rest of us in not always following these rules but I try to amke a conscious effort to do so. Of course the same argument could be made for running fast and furious to the Alarm calls in a personal vehicle, but I would counter that with two thoughts. First of all you are no help to anyone if you don't arrive in one piece. Second of all, responsed are dynamic and can be upgraded or downgraded as needed, the first person on scene will be quite vocal about the presence of a working fire and you can adjust things then without loosing too much time.

Edited July 3, 2007 by BFD182

[Goose 188]

Not a FF, but i have seen some pretty stupid things while working with them. For instance: Showing up to an MVA in a turnout coat and baseball pants or shorts, wearing sandals (though, this is most often seen with volunteer EMS providers) or flip flops, walking in and out of smoke conditions with an SCBA on but the mask is dangling at their hip or being told, very bluntly i may add, that they don't wear "that crap" because of old habits. My overall favorite is never bothering to send a proper assignment to an AFA or other perceived "routine call," IE: chiefs car only.

I really wounder how much of it is stupidity and how much is sheer complacency. I mean most everyone goes to similar training and i think everyone, regardless of being in the public services or not, knows how inherently dangerous firefighting is. The whole "it's not going to happen to me" attitude is pretty apparent from the experiences i have had. The last thing i want to do is to work up one of my own (i consider, PD, FD, EMS all in the same) because of something that could have been prevented. It's interesting, everyone talks about safety, we memorialize those who have given the supreme sacrifice time and time again and review the dangers of the job - but are people actually listening?

I work alongside a career department that runs BLS FR and whenever i meet these guys O/S they've got at least their bunker pants on, some even wear their turnout coats as well and they always wear gloves. The other day i did a job for a "man down" - in 90+ degree weather and the Engine Company had their turnouts on. It was one of our usual drunks, but still. It really impressed me. Thats the type of stuff everyone should be practicing, because its when you let your guard down that you walk into a house with blood everywhere or show up on a fully involved fire and your standing there with your pants around your ankles. We owe it to those we protect and our partners not to put ourselves in additional and preventable harm. If we get hurt whos gonna help?

[firecapt32 282]

Firefighter 1 should be run in a tight fasion-firefighters should learn the right way the first time and if that takes dicipline then so be it. Fire Chiefs should be notified as soon as possible about problems with thier firefighters. Maybe it will take a little dicipline to get firefighters home safe. As ALS has stated in many of his classes THIS IS A PROFESSION--IF ITS NOT FOR YOU JOIN THE ELKS

Chief should not sent their firefighters to FF1 with out preparing them for it. Medicials and mask fit are only the start.