Tappan Zee Bridge: Does It Need It's Own Emergency Squad?

[x635 4,066]

With all the serious incidents on the Tappan Zee Bridge over the past years, and with the bridge being obsolete for current traffic load, should the Thruway Authority increase the manpower, equipment, and training of the Bridge Patrol?

For instance, the Port Authority George Washington Bridge Division just took delivery of a do-it-all 2007 Pierce Lance Engine (as featured in Fire Apparatus Journal July-August '07 Page 25) that has a 1250GPM pump, 2500 gallon water tank, 300 gallons foam tank, 6 ground sweep nozzles, extrication equpment, hazardous materials supplies and references, light tower, plenty of hose, EMS Equipment, and a multi-agency command cab. This is to supplement their quick response patrol wreckers that also have some fire suppresion and extrication capabilities. All of these trucks can be seen on FDNYTrucks.com

The bridge used to be much better covered by "Wrecker 1", with them having their own fire engine, better staffing, and training at the Rockland Fire Training Center, but it seems budget cuts have resulted in cutbacks.

In my opinion, I feel the TZ Bridge does need an improved emergency response squad. Given traffic conditions and the unique nature of the bridge, this would mitigate incidents much more quickly, and possibly limit the need for multiple agencies to abandon their districts to cover an incident....instead, they could be supplemental.

These positions should be trained to a career firefighter level, rescue technician, and master wrecker operator, and it should be a civil service position. Two men should patrol the bridge in a better equipped wrecker then they have now, and a third crew member should man the fire apparatus at the Tarrytown Barracks. Add an additonal patrol wrecker for peak travel times. Tarrytown, Central Nyack, and the EMS agencies should still respond, as directed by the Thruway Authority Crew Chief.

In fact, the Thruway Authority TZ Bridge might benefit from an airport-style crash rescue vehice with snozzle.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts.

[calhobs 110]

I do agree Seth, but with the county and thruway auth. unsure what they are going to do with the bridge do not expect this anytime soon. I was wondering what do you think if they ran stand pipes down so the fire boats could hook up to them and pump water that way , do you think it would work?

Edited July 3, 2007 by calhobs

[Oswegowind 17]

Although a new bridge is milleniums away (LOL) it will be even more needed than when not only cars are crossing the bridge which proposed is going to be larger than the current one and will most likely be more travelled as time passes on. Add to that a rail way system proposal, or even an improved rail link system. It will be even more needed and to get something solid in place now would be a great idea since they ain't gonna tear the current one down while they build the new one so I am sure they will get some work at sometime!

[EXDC203 38]

Well first things first. The fire truck was taken away because certain people didnt wear their turnouts while operating it...not budget cuts. Second... any agency who responds onto the Thruway has a form to fill out & is paid by the Tway for each response. Third... if the Tway runs through your district...........you are not abondoning your district...you are responding to YOUR call.

[x635 4,066]

Well first things first. The fire truck was taken away because certain people didnt wear their turnouts while operating it...not budget cuts. Second... any agency who responds onto the Thruway has a form to fill out & is paid by the Tway for each response. Third... if the Tway runs through your district...........you are not abondoning your district...you are responding to YOUR call.

You're not abandoning your district per say, but you are committed to the incident for a longer duration then an average alarm. Also, I've seen departments, especially in daytime hours, commit their resources to highway incidents, including all their chiefs, and then have another alarm come in and not be able to cover it. But that's a whole seperate issue.

I was informed by a higher up with the Thruway Authority that the engine was taken away due to the inability to properly fund and staff it, and subsequently the inablity to train members and equip them with turnout gear.

Traffic builds on the TZ quick after an incident. If there is some form of a rapid intervention, and coordination by a source familiar with the bridge, the better off the motorists are that travel the bridge. A TZ Bridge crew would be able to get to an incident and mitigate it quicker then local resources. The GW Bridge does it, why not the TZ? That is only my opinion.

[dc2t 80]

The Thruway Authority disbanded the Emergency unit several years ago as a cost cutting $$$$$. Not because of someone not wearing turnout out gear

The TA should take a long hard look at the lack of quick response to a incident what happen if bridge suffered major damage

and had to be closed for a few days?

Hey Governor let OFPC make study on bridge emergency services , not a few overpaid TA money pinchers.

Happy 4th of July

[SBVFD524 0]

ya i have seen some things on that bridge that have taken over 2 hours to get throu.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I used to go over that bridge a lot when my ex lived in Valley Cottage and also visit family in Delaware County. They need something on BOTH sides of the bridge in my opinion and have them cover from the "split" in Westchester to The Nyack / West Nyack line. This is my opinion. Get two foam pumpers and have one on each side of the bridge equipped like the GWB's unit. I just seems when it rains it pours on the TZB. Hopefully they will fix the problem.

[helicopper 1,050]

Having a dedicated TZB brigade wouldn't have changed the outcome of the accident Sunday night. Maybe they would have gotten the fire out more quickly - MAYBE - but the wreck still needed to be cleaned up, accident investigated, body removed by the ME, and bridge inspected for structural integrity before traffic could flow again.

For run of the mill stuff like your average car fire, perhaps they could knock it down more quickly by virtue of their response time but is it worth the investment? How many incidents that require a career FF/rescue tech/wrecker operator occur on the bridge in a year? Even if it's twice a month, can you tell me that is sufficient to maintain their skills and proficiency? And it's not just ONE guy (or even two) but at least 4-5 per position that needs to be staffed around the clock so you're really looking at more like 10-12 people to staff this. Is that worth it when Nyack and Tarrytown are both just minutes away?

I see your point but don't think it's got the legs to make it through the bureaucratic process.

[x635 4,066]

The GWB has an emergency squad, as do most of the bridges in the NYC area. This wouldn't be to replace the local FD's, only to supplement them on an extremly dangerous operating area.

A way to get this through the beauracratic process would be to mention the word that gets everything done seemingly nowadays. "Terrorism". These members can also be eyes and ears for terrorism.

Everday duties for the bridge patrol would include clearing disabled vehicles and minor accidents, and other duties as needed.

One reason it won't get through is because I'm sure there will be those with egos seeing this as "losing power" and fight it.

Think about all the hazardous materials that go over the bridge on a daily basis, the gasoline tankers, etc. Think about the daily choking traffic on the bridge.

The NYS Thruway Authority used to be a top-notch agency, with their roads and equipment impeccably maintained. Over the years, that's all fallen apart. I still can't understand the justification of reducing the Bride Patrol's staffing and equipment as compared to priors years, especially with the bridge aging more and more and handling more traffic then ever. Especially considering that neighboring Hudson River crossings have top notch security and emergency response.

[steve shryock 0]

The GWB is under the control of the Port Authority which has the use for all their properties within a reasonable response. I would not be surprised to see it on a response to Teterboro Airport.

TZ under control of NYS which has far fewer potential targets

PA is a big agency but the TA is not much compared to them. I agree with Chris that Nyack & Tarrytown are right there and no matter what in any serious accident there is going to be an investigation tying up lanes so it would not matter.

Just a few points. If the TZ does get something they will probably double to tolls to pay for it.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

This article was in today's paper. Maybe one day if the do build another bridge then can do it like the Chesapeak Memorial Bridge. Has cutouts on the side of the road for DV's, Traffic Stops and whatever else. Might be a good idea.

Law and bridge design limit police enforcement on Tappan Zee Bridge

By CAREN HALBFINGER

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: July 4, 2007)

State police are limited both by design and by state law in what they can do to crack down on speeders and unsafe drivers on the Tappan Zee Bridge.

Motorists who drive regularly across the bridge have been talking about the need for stepped-up enforcement of speeding and unsafe driving on the bridge since a fatal accident Sunday. The crash occurred after a 19-year-old driver, who police say was speeding and driving recklessly, hit a southbound tractor-trailer and careened through the barrier into the northbound lanes. Debris from the truck and the barrier was strewn across all seven lanes of the bridge, closing it for nine hours.

"Of all the times I've commuted on this bridge, I can honestly say I only saw a traffic cop one time, and that was Sunday around 2 p.m,'' said Jorge Fernandez, 25, a mortgage salesman from Queens. "Coincidently enough, there were two cars racing each other, weaving in an out of the dense traffic, and the cop didn't even attempt to stop them. Bottom line is, we need more traffic enforcement, whether it be stationing more traffic officers on both sides of the bridge, or installing several cameras that can track one's speed, with a penalty of a harsh fine."

There is no state law that allows police to use cameras to enforce vehicle and traffic laws and mail tickets to vehicle owners, as Fernandez and other bridge commuters have suggested. To catch speeders or reckless drivers on the Tappan Zee Bridge, state troopers must see them and ticket them in person.

While other states, such as Texas and California, are starting to test the use of cameras to catch and penalize speeders, New York has no plans to do so. Any change would require action by the state Legislature, said state police Sgt. Kern Swoboda. New York City is able to ticket the owners of vehicles that run red lights by imposing civil penalties, he said.

But just because you don't see lights flashing and cars pulled over, don't think police aren't patrolling - and enforcing - traffic on the bridge. Police never pull over motorists on the bridge because it has no shoulders, said state police Capt. Evelyn Mallard, zone commander for troopers patrolling the bridge.

"It would create more of a hazard to pull people over on the bridge than the hazard they're creating,'' she said. "There is enforcement out there, but you'll never see someone stopped on the bridge. It's unsafe. You may see them stopped on either end of the bridge.''

The lack of shoulders also makes getting to the scene of an accident, such as Sunday's fatal crash, that much more difficult, she said. That's why she has emphasized the need for shoulders on a new or rehabilitated bridge in meetings about the future of the Tappan Zee Bridge.

Improving traffic safety and enforcement would be taken into account in designing a new bridge, according to Mike Anderson, who is leading the Tappan Zee Bridge/I-287 environmental study team. Improvements would include lanes that would be a foot wider, with an extra 2 feet on either side of the barrier, and lane-width shoulders, he said.

"Our design is going to be predicated on the latest highway standards,'' Anderson said. "Whether a rehabilitated bridge can meet those design standards remains to be seen, but that will be our goal. In a replacement bridge, all those requirements will be met.''

Even when there are shoulders, though, police and emergency vehicles sometimes have to dodge motorists who are using them, illegally, to try to get around bottlenecks. Heading to the scene of the Sunday crash from Orange County, Mallard said she had to weave in and out of the shoulder because motorists were blocking her access and riding her tail.

"There were definitely a few four-letter words coming out of my mouth,'' she said. "When traffic is backed up, the worst thing you can do is go on the shoulder. To go on the shoulder prolongs the response time, which prolongs the time you will be sitting there, stuck in traffic. Get out of the way and let us do our jobs.''

While this fatal crash captured a lot of attention, Mallard said speeding isn't a common problem on the bridge.

"Most of the time the bridge is so backed up you can't go that fast,'' she said. "I don't think speeding and weaving there is any different than in any other stretch; it's not a huge problem.''

[SgtGumby311 0]

They're probably waiting to do a study....Once that's done, they'll do another one.

[27east 19]

They're probably waiting to do a study....Once that's done, they'll do another one.

No, before the study the will create a new government agency to oversee the study, then create another agency to interpret the results, then repeat.

[helicopper 1,050]

The GWB has an emergency squad, as do most of the bridges in the NYC area. This wouldn't be to replace the local FD's, only to supplement them on an extremly dangerous operating area.

A way to get this through the beauracratic process would be to mention the word that gets everything done seemingly nowadays. "Terrorism". These members can also be eyes and ears for terrorism.

Everday duties for the bridge patrol would include clearing disabled vehicles and minor accidents, and other duties as needed.

One reason it won't get through is because I'm sure there will be those with egos seeing this as "losing power" and fight it.

Think about all the hazardous materials that go over the bridge on a daily basis, the gasoline tankers, etc. Think about the daily choking traffic on the bridge.

The NYS Thruway Authority used to be a top-notch agency, with their roads and equipment impeccably maintained. Over the years, that's all fallen apart. I still can't understand the justification of reducing the Bride Patrol's staffing and equipment as compared to priors years, especially with the bridge aging more and more and handling more traffic then ever. Especially considering that neighboring Hudson River crossings have top notch security and emergency response.

Unless I'm mistaken, the PAPD staffs the emergency squad at the bridge so they can cross train and rotate people between the bridges, tunnels, airports, and other facilities. There's a LOT more training and actual incidents at the PA than the TA. The PAPD staffs the fire response at the airports and other PA facilities so they already have a well established fire division.

Don't get me wrong - I like the idea. I just don't think it will have very broad support.

[x635 4,066]

The PAPD Bridge And Tunnels Emergency Squads, including the GWB, are staffed by civilian agents, backed up when needed by PAPD ESU.