Water temp, hose team techniques

[Guest]

Im hopeing this is the right section for this topic...I was asked this today by a friend and I couldnt really answer it b/c I didnt know myself so I figurered I would ask here.

"Does the water temperature effect the fire in any way as far as putting it out? Do different temperatures of water contain more or less moisture that is needed to put the fire out?" (I know we cant exactly control water temperature but...)

I also wanted to know some stuff of my own that I was either taught/told as advice...

When putting water on the fire, Is it more effective to spray in a counter clockwise direction rather than clockwise?, perhaps sucking the fire back to the hose team and not pushing it away or pushing it to a diff part of the structure?

&

Is a more of a "misted" (or a little wider then a straight stream) more effective than a straight stream holding more or less moisture?

Thank you for any input, always wanted to get this straight in my mind.

Edited July 2, 2007 by NRFDTL11Buff

[Guest moose__72]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the standard is cranking the stream in a clockwise pattern. This not only keeps the steam and heat off the the hose team, but also furthers the disruption of the thermal balance and helps darken the fire. As for the tight fog stream, it will only cause more steam which may put the hose team or anyone else in the area at a greater risk of burns.

[Monty 35]

The temperature of the water does affect the cooling capability and thee number of BTU's that can be disipated. However, I think the difference between water at 35 and 85 degrees is fairly neglibile. If you want to absorb / disipate more btu's you are probably better off using Class A or CAFS rather than cooling the water applied.

As for rotating the stream, the tradition has been clockwise, but I seem to remember reading in firefighting some magazines of some scientific studies done that really didn't show a difference between a clockwise or anti clockwise rotation, and in fact it may have been that a 'Z' or side to side pattern was more effective at removing heat and smoke products.

[antiquefirelt 994]

OK here's a few answers from my experience:

1. Water temp: You'll never know the difference enough for this to be a factor at all.

Conclusion: It's a non-issue.

2. Clockwise vs. counterclockwise: As the story goes water swirls in a clockwise direction north of the equator and counter clockwise south of the equator. They say you can see this when you watch any toilet flush or drain a sink? The basic thought being if this is the natural direction then the stream will travel further when directed in the appropriate direction for your location in relation to the equator. Again, I'd bet no one can prove any actual data showing the differences to be measurable.

Conclusion: Sometimes no pattern is the best, straight stream to the seat. Other times a swirling pattern maybe required to cool the space, don't sweat the direction or pattern, but think more about how much water and how it's working. Does it drive you to the floor (very hot overhead- major steam conversion- think about backing up?) does it come down in full drops that are not too hot?(not bad overhead) Can you hear or feel the stream hitting the ceiling? (how high is the ceiling? Is there a drop ceiling?) What does the fire do? (darken down-laugh at you-instant zero visibility)

3. Mist vs. fog vs. straight stream: One of the biggest debates in the modern fire service. Mist and fog converts to steam, which is not great if you or a victim is in the space. Straight stream has better reach and penetration with less steam. Both have their applications. I recommend reading the late Andy Fredricks articels "Little Drops of Water" from Fire Engineering and Dave Fornell's Stream Management Handbook. Both provide great insight into fire stream theory.

Conclusion: For me it's straight stream: Right is right, left for lobster!

[Guest partyrock]

antique really covered it, but I just want to emphasise, no matter what direction you work the stream just make sure you listen. You want to hear the stream hit the wall, ceiling, wall, and floor. Listen for drop ceilings, holes, doors, windows, etc. You also want to sweep that floor, keep it cool and keep free of debris.

[steve shryock 0]

antique really covered it, but I just want to emphasise, no matter what direction you work the stream just make sure you listen. You want to hear the stream hit the wall, ceiling, wall, and floor. Listen for drop ceilings, holes, doors, windows, etc. You also want to sweep that floor, keep it cool and keep free of debris.

just to add to that sweeping the floor also makes noise so if you do not hear it, there might not be any floor in front of you.