Sicko.....GO SEE IT!

[x635 4,066]

I just returned home from seeing the documentary, "Sicko", by Michael Moore about the US Healthcare system. YOU HAVE TO GO SEE IT, regardless of what you think of Michael Moore.

This movie takes a comparitive look at the US healthcare system, versus healthcare systems in other countries with socialized healthcare, such as Canada, England, France, and even Cuba.

This movie highlighted another frustrating aspect of our society. How could the US Government provide better health care to Al-Queida detainees in Guantonomo Bay than their own people?

Did you know that doctors in England, a country with socialized healthcare, make enough to live comfortably, and get bonuses if they improve thier patients health?

Did you know in France, that they send you a nanny when you have a child-and they even do laundry- for FREE! The French also have a 35 hour workweek, and 5-10 WEEKS of vacation minium.

Did you know that Medical expenses are the leading causes of bankruptcy in the US?

And in these countries with socialized health care.....they don't pay a dime for it. Lower quality medical care is a myth.

It also brings to light that in the USA, we live to work, not work to live. Why do we value materialistic things and "profit" more than the quality of our lives as well the lives of our families, friends, and neighbors? Why are we afraid to revolt and force change within our government? If things continue this way the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

Unfortunately, we will see more people we care about negatively affected by the current systems we have in place.

I don't want to give too much away. Go see it....and you'll understand how I feel. It will DEFINITELY open up your eyes, and you will be glad you saw it.

There are many myths explained and horrors exposed in this powerful film. How can we do this to our own people??? I truly hope this move stirs people to discussion and ultimately to action.

2nd best film I've ever seen, next to Shawshank Redemption.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

My wife dragged me to it, I thought I was not going to enjoy it, BUT It was good and worth seeing.

Not to give any of the movie away, but the UK part, I can attest to it as I once benefited from thier care as well.

[ohbdow1 6]

First, a couple of things immediately come to mind. How much cool aid were you drinking at this movie? And secondly, do you allow yourself to follow mindlessly a proven liar. If you were to see a movie that was produced by someone one is proven to support Countries such as Cuba who have the people under their thumb. I am not following the premise that the United States of America, the greatest Country in the entire free world has a substandard health care system. Where is the waiting list for entry into these Countries that you listed? Are you to suggest that they have better care in these Countries? England, who has socialized heath care, and takes 60 % of your wages to pay for it is on the brink of bankruptcy. If you need surgery you need to take a number and be placed on a list. If you want the best and the brightest to perform any surgery on any part of your anatomy you seek it here in the United States. How can you or anyone who has lived here take what you have for granted? There is no one who if you do not have the ability to pay that will be turned away. Realize the coverage that is provided here in New York to the people who are here (citizens or not). The Doctor may not be authorized to remove warts from your buttocks, but the hospitals are funded, again in New York, much less the rest of the Country to provide indigents with health care. It is beyond my comprehension, especially to those who have received the best health care, to criticize the very people whom have taken care of you. Socialism does not work. How ignorant can one be that does not at the very least investigate both sides than to subject themselves to propaganda? This really disturbs me. If Cuba, France, Canada or any other feel good Country is so great than move. Subject yourself to garnished wages that give you no medical services that are free market driven and wait in line. This Country offers the best and the brightest and nothing less. Criticize the system that provides cutting edge technology and medicines that are available to you and that other Countries try to mimic and have another glass of the red stuff and sleep well.

[Guest]

very interesting. i guess this is something each person must judge for themselves. i've seen the previews and interviews w/ Moore, and based on that...i am disgusted on our system. this will be another one of his films that kills the theory of "Americana," but only to open the eyes of the blind.

thanks seth on reminding me the movie is out this weekend...i'll make sure to see it.

[x635 4,066]

←

obdow1, complete myths.

Why is it then that these countries, are statistically healthier then the U.S. (according to the World Health Orginization)? And they live longer???

Why is it that our healthcare system ranks #37 in the world?

Why is it that 9/11 rescue workers who are ill because of their actions at Ground Zero, have such trouble getting healthcare for their conditions, yet we give Al-Qieuda, and this is documented through congressional hearings, better, more accesible, and FREE healthcare?

Why is it that Hillary Clinton was such a big supporter of universal healthcare for all Americans, until the healthcare industry rose a stink, and we never heard a peep from her about it ever again? And now, she recieves hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from the healthcare industry?

Why do we have doctors who make money denying people claims, instead of making money for making them healthier????

Why do we have people that can't get medical care or prescriptions because they can't afford it? Why do we have people here that 60% of their paycheck goes to medical costs before taxes?

You may think our healthcare system is cutting edge, the best, whatever, and I agree we have top notch healthcare....but it's expensive, there are many who can't even get it if they can afford it, and even if you do have insurance, the denials for care have cost people lives (and body parts), made people sicker, and insurance companies routinely drop people from their plans because they are sick.

The myths that you want to believe is why this movie was made.

How can we spend billions to kill people, yet neglect the people in our own country? How can we provide schools, librarys, fire departments, all from the goverment yet healthcare is a private industry. The insurance companies are making record profits. People in our own country have been driven to bankruptcy with healthcare costs. Denials of claims by insurance companies HAVE killed people. Hospitals dump people on streets. How can we let this happen in our own country? The other countries may be on the "brink of bankruptcy" as you claim, I'm not sure about that, but at least they take care of their own people's most basic need. And as for the taxes, I'm sure there are those on this forum that pay several hundred dollars a month for health insurance, plus co-pays, deductubiles, prescriptions, etc. It equals out.

You may choose not to believe it, and I don't know if you've seen the movie, but go see it....with an open mind. The facts are there if you do your homework. Until then, this problem is going to exist because we have people like you who believe these myths.

Oh yes, Patriotism doesn't mean complacency with the way things are. In fact, you implying and persecuting me as "anti American" for my views just because I take an objective look at things- that is as anti-American as I've ever seen.

This film was bipartisan and brilliant, and you can feel however you want about Michael Moore, but at least he is using his power to try and make things better. That's American.

Where would this country be if we were all complacent with the way things are?

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Better yet. DO NOT GIVE THIS GUY ANY OF YOUR MONEY. Buy a bootleg copy.

[x635 4,066]

Here's the facts page regarding this movie:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/

[CAM502 6]

F**K Michael Moore....he will not get one penny from me. He is real good at twisting "facts" so they fit his leftist liberal agenda...I am just shocked how easily people believe his CRAP!

[bil14ga 1]

This film was bipartisan and brilliant,

←

Bipartisian my a$$. We alll know Moore has an agenda.

As far as healthcare goes.... If you want to save it we need tort reform. Until then the middle class will not have affordable health care. I say middle class because it is the middle class that fund the healthcare system for the poor but do not have healthcare for themselves.

Think of the last time you watched TV and did not see an ad for a class action law suit for this or that medically. Also look at the costs to be a physician/hospital and cover insurance. I agree that there are many stories of justified law suits for medical malpractice, but the payouts are over the top.

As far as France and the "free nanny." Lets face it, nothing in this world is truely free. Also, as wonderful as France is, why do they have such a high unemployment rate? Look at the employment rates for most of the EU countries. They are very high as well. The US currently has a very low unemployment rate and tends to be very dynamic encominically.

While I agree that the USA is not perfect, it is better than most if not the best. I welcome the oppurtunity to debate such issues as this. I believe that Moore has the right to produce any and all propaganda he wishes. I also believe that it is my right to refuse to view his movie and in turn support him and his liberal views.

[PC_420 28]

No, this is a ridiculous topic. I can't believe this movie is even amused with some seriousness. Lets understand this very clearly, and as a consitutional law and capitalist who has studied both sides of the field.

Universal Healthcare does not work and for many reasons.

1. Where do these doctors who want to learn medicine go to learn? The United States.

2. Where do all these new medicines come from? The United States.

3. Why are they created here? Because govenment does not have its sticky controlling hands on it.(Which by the way is called socialism, communism, something we fought against for 50 years.)

Capitalism breeds ideas, thoughts, and ambition. Why do you think the socialist societies of the world fell apart? Becuase people had no ambition to work harder. But in universal healthcare, doctors are all paid the same no matter what, nursers and patient care technicians, too. And there will be no room for advancement, no incentive to work harder, and as such worse doctors.

So if you want a slowing down in the advancement of medicine, if you want higher taxes, and more powerful democrat politicians, then go ahead and vote for universal healthcare. But you will regret it.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

To me there is a time and a place for everything. I will not go see it because I will not allow that fat b**tard to get an ounce of my money. I've read into the concept of "social healthcare" and in larger countries it is not always as great as it seems. There are documentaries with doctors on record in Canada discussing how certain orthopedic surgeries can take up to 6 months and even longer to get accomplished, gall bladder surgery which is considered an "elective" surgery can sometimes take longer than that.

I also do not play into the "how can we spend billions to kill people..." in any conversation. Those people that "we are killing" would decapitate you with a 99 cent steak knife if they could get your hands on you. I still believe that the more we kill...less there are in the world. Look throughout history, foreign policy and action cost money. Hard, big money, every instance where we tried to stay out of, we ended up getting involved later, which cost more money and more american lives. I know I do just fine with healthcare and did just fine in the private sector before getting hired.

Michael Moore...kiss my tried and true Marine Corps veteran American a**....

[Oswegowind 17]

Note: I have not seen this movie and do not plan on seeing it anytime soon.

That said, there are things that we can learn from other systems and things that they can learn from us. The waiting lists that are being discussed are really no longer than those we have here, now. A few years ago the waits in the UK were unreasonable however they have since corrected that. Things considered elective you still wait for just as you do here in the US but it is maybe a week or two weeks. My wife worked in the NHS (UK) at Homerton Hospital for 3 years prior to moving here and her friend was just in town and we were discussing this issue. We say our system is not socialist in any aspect but come on here, we just don't admit to our socialist ways. We pay for welfare, medicare, medicaid, and all those other "special programs" that have been developed over time to gain votes for politicians. If that isn't a socialist ideal then show me! I pay taxes so someone else who doesn't work can apply to get benefits from the government to whom I pay my taxes too. I guess I am just looking to rant a bit! Listen, over there they get 4 weeks vacation as a cop, ff, emt, paramedic, nurse, doctor...that is universal at the start of your employment. Same goes for Australia! Their salaries are competitive with ours and I have yet to hear complaint about the garnishment of wages cause here in America they are called TAXES! Their taxes may be at a higher rate but they are under fair tax and they have no sales tax. By the time we are done paying our taxes it works out to just as much if not more than what they pay! I do not support Michael Moore, however we all need to open our minds a little bit...It is continuously present how closed minded people can be! No one said you had to take what he says as word, but maybe there is some truth to it, beyond your own little world that you live in! And I'm spent!

[Guest]

Saw it today. While I am not a Micheal Moore fan, and was not going to see it, my GF made me to go see it. Well I have to say it is an eye opening movie. I was already aware that in Britan you get better paid vacation time then we do in the us, but I was not aware that they did not have to worry about paying anything at the hospital. No co-pays, no deductibles, nothing. I have to say that most people in the us are in denial of the truth. For instance when you are having a heart attack most deny the warning signs, this country is in denial over the fact we have a sh!tty health care system. Just recently in LA a lady died on the ER floor because she couldnt afford care. We have many of warning signs, I am sure anyone of us knows someone a friend, family member who was denied a claim by thier insurance. And why is it the very same people who want to kill all of us are getting better care then the ones who work 60 hours a week? We do not need Micheal Moore to make a movie to tell us whats wrong, we have to open our eyes, and stop being in denial. Quite frankly any system right now would be better then the current US healthcare system.

[Oswegowind 17]

Just a bit more:

Their EMS systems kills ours! and that is run by the NHS as well!

Also about the hospital's situation, some doctors that admit patients at hospitals in our immediate area (i.e. Hudson Valley Hosp @ Peek/Cort) are also on staff of, you guessed it, a major Health Insurance Company. A family member of mine worked there for some time in QA/QI and witnessed first hand at least 3 doctors holding patients in the hospital as admission and then denying there claim when reviewed by the insurance company! Double dipping!!!!! MD makes money off hospital visits, insurance doesn't pay, you end up with the bill, MD makes money by saving the insurance co money...interesting huh?

[SpartanML 0]

Not to mention how the hospital system in Europe is failing, dirty, disgusting, and since healthcare is socialized people have to wait months and months to get the basic operations. Socialism does not work, why do you think France had those massive, massive riots a couple of years back?

[x635 4,066]

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with people that don't have an open mind, and much less can't even answer the questions that I've posed.

Since when did being an activist in Amercia become a crime? We're so quick to condenm anyone that may have views that are different then our. And we believe everything the goverment, media, and big corporations tell us and want us to believe. Does anyone remember we had something called the Revolution and Civil War in this country, all fought by brave men and women who wanted to make this country better. Wanting to make things better does not make you anti-American, it makes you more American.

Whether you like Michael Moore or not is irrellevant. The healthcare system in this country needs drastic improvement. I admire him that he uses his status to bring attention to issues such as this. People are latching onto the word socialism too much here, and believing long standing myths that simply aren't true. If healthcare systems in these countries are so bad, why are their people statistically healthier and live longer then us?

If you don't think the healthcare system in this country needs improving, then you really need to open your eyes.

[SpartanML 0]

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with people that don't have an open mind, and much less can't even answer the questions that I've posed.

Since when did being an activist in Amercia become a crime? We're so quick to condenm anyone that may have views that are different then our. And we believe everything the goverment, media, and big corporations tell us and want us to believe. Does anyone remember we had something called the Revolution and Civil War in this country, all fought by brave men and women who wanted to make this country better. Wanting to make things better does not make you anti-American, it makes you more American.

Whether you like Michael Moore or not is irrellevant. The healthcare system in this country needs drastic improvement. I admire him that he uses his status to bring attention to issues such as this. People are latching onto the word socialism too

much here, and believing long standing myths that simply aren't true. If healthcare systems in these countries are so bad, why are their people statistically healthier and live longer then us?

If you don't think the healthcare system in this country needs improving, then you really need to open your eyes.

Seth, I respect you a great deal, your willingness to never step down from what you believe in is damn admirable. However, none the less, we differ greatly on the issue. I will agree that things need to be done to improve the quality of healthcare in this country, though near me we have some of the best medical facilities and that cannot be denied. No one is condemning Michael Moore and his point of view, no one is calling him a criminal. When you posted your opinion you should of been prepared for the fierce criticism many would say on the issue. Moore's movies are a massive moot point and will be disputed for years to come. When you speak about how many of us blindly follow the media, corporations etc, can the same not be said about you? You speak about not following one source so blindly yet I see a massive gap in your statement as your proof all goes back to one place, michaelmoore.com... bottom line in this question is people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Finally, I will address your question about why people in other countries live longer than ourselves. The answer my friend is simple; lifestyle. We need to look out the way we eat, live, and go about our lives. I have been to Europe, they're all thin, incredibly enough they all smoke as well! They do eat much better than us. However at the same time I have seen the healthcare system of parts of Europe, needless to say it is lacking, the ambulances they use seem antiquated compared to ours and the hospitals don't look pretty.

I do have to apologize for my previous post, it is very harsh and also poorly worded. However I stand true to what I say. Perhaps it is just the way I choose to live my life, I am a staunch libertarian and believe strongly in rugged individualism. I have always had a great dislike for socialism as I believe in the end the people lose more than the small benefits they receive.

That's my opinion, and I also took a stab at answering your questions.

[Medibart 55]

I saw Sicko last Saturday when it was at one theater in the country in NYC and I liked it a lot. This issue is something that touches anyone that works for an EMS service that bills. Being a person that sees the reports from billing I can't tell you the number of ridiculous denials from private insurance companies that come in or the companies that pay $100 or less for a $500 ambulance bill. What does that mean? That means less pay for staff and less money for equipment and vehicles. Your paycheck is directly effected by the policies of the insurance companies. Meanwhile, I know that our company's medical plans for families costs just over $1000 a month. That's money that otherwise would be going to the employees as pay. So the money saved in taxes by not having a national health service is taken from your paycheck anyway and given to insurance companies making enormous profits.

It's been said that New York City has some of the best hospitals in the world and I would agree with that, no one is arguing that fact. The problem is not the quality of those hospitals, it's access to them. Access to the highest levels of care is based on your ability to pay for them either by cash or through insurance. The stories told in the movie are heartbreaking. Examples of people being denied literally life-saving treatment and therefore dying due to lack of insurance. That is not a democrat or a republican issue, it is neither liberal nor conservative, it is simply human.

One of the points that is made in the movie is that we already have socialist institutions. Our fire departments, our municipal ambulances, our police departments, our libraries and many other services are socialized. Imagine if your house was on fire and the fire department asked you to show a pre-authorization from your fire insurance company to put out the fire. My taxes pay for fire service I've never used, police service I've never used and for schools and I don't have any kids. Why couldn't it be the same for medical care?

The bottom line is Michael Moore's movies are documentaries, they are not news reports. They are told from his point of view, well really much like most of our news is now anyway. Just like the news, especially corporately owned media outlet news, you shouldn't take what Michael says as dogma. You should listen to it, take it in, digest it, learn about it and then decide for yourself.

Anytime they bring up socialized medicine in the regular media you hear about long waits, poor care, underpaid doctors and all that. Each one of those ideas are challenged by this movie. Is it possible that all we've been told on the news is wrong or exaggerated? All I can say is that there are a lot of people who would benefit greatly by Americans believing that socialized medicine is a disaster and that alone makes me question the motives of those that would speak against it. We should always question the motives of people that are getting rich by keeping us frightened and ignorant.

All I knew about socialized medicine before was what I heard on the news but now I'm thinking that maybe there might be a better way. I think that's all Michael wants is for us to think. See the movie or don't see the movie, but keep an open mind to the issues discussed in them and learn more about them. Like I said, you're paycheck depends on it.

[pjreilly 6]

And i suppose you must believe the other propogandist Al Gore with his "sci fi" thriller an inconvienient myth. These left wing nut jobs are trying to scare the world into believing what they say is gospel. Do you believe 9-11 was a production of our government? Another crap story from the far left kooks. And to advertise the banner on this website is in poor taste. I thought this website dealt with real fire fighting and EMS topics, not spun to the left propoganda from a proverbial liar in that fat a@@ hole Michael Moore. Pleae lets stick with relevant topics. I have been a fan of these forums, but if this continues........

[Oswegowind 17]

And i suppose you must believe the other propogandist Al Gore with his "sci fi" thriller an inconvienient myth. These left wing nut jobs are trying to scare the world into believing what they say is gospel. Do you believe 9-11 was a production of our government? Another crap story from the far left kooks. And to advertise the banner on this website is in poor taste. I thought this website dealt with real fire fighting and EMS topics, not spun to the left propoganda from a proverbial liar in that fat a@@ hole Michael Moore. Pleae lets stick with relevant topics. I have been a fan of these forums, but if this continues........

Once again, you are entitled to your opinion, and so is everyone else, but this is not a publicly owned website, and the proprietor is also entitled to his own opinion. If he wishes to post the Sicko banner than so be it, this is HIS website! And there are just as many right wing nut jobs out there that keep our country from moving forward and developing better ideas. We are a capitalist society that helps the weak and poor tag along...that makes a whole lot of sense. Let's really move this discussion forward, leave the politics and parties home and discuss this issue like adults with factual information provided and sources sighted and let your opinion carry weight! Medibart makes a great point about how our systems resemble socialism, cause if it were true capitalism, if you couldn't afford the ambulance you would just lay there and die!

Please explore the following ideas and present your opinions on these as well as the health care industry being discussed already:

1. Privatization of Social Security. Do you agree or disagree? Do you need to know more? This would allow you and I to choose how our social security tax is invested for ourselves, the individual! The government already makes money off of our money, this would allow you and I to invest our money specifically to try and make more, just like the 401k's but we can't touch it til we are what 62 or 65 so it will still be there.

2. Fair Tax Law. Do you agree or disagree? Under fair tax we would pay minimal if no income taxes. We would be taxed at a somewhat higher sales tax. So if you bought nothing you pay nothing, but if you buy a jet plane you would pay for it. Similar to a luxury tax.

[Goose 188]

No doubt our system has it's problems. But socialized health care isn't the lush green pasture its made out to be. Either way, Moore is in no way, shape or form going to get one ounce of my hard earned money. The guy is a psudo-intellectual, take everything he has to say with a grain of salt. He's been proven to have lied and misled in the past, those types have a tendency to do it again, and again and again.

[x635 4,066]

OK, let's put Michael Moore and Socialized Healthcare aside for a moment.

Is there anyone here who thinks that the healthcare system in this country needs to be improved??????

[RescueKujo 130]

Please explore the following ideas and present your opinions on these as well as the health care industry being discussed already:

1. Privatization of Social Security. Do you agree or disagree? Do you need to know more? This would allow you and I to choose how our social security tax is invested for ourselves, the individual! The government already makes money off of our money, this would allow you and I to invest our money specifically to try and make more, just like the 401k's but we can't touch it til we are what 62 or 65 so it will still be there.

2. Fair Tax Law. Do you agree or disagree? Under fair tax we would pay minimal if no income taxes. We would be taxed at a somewhat higher sales tax. So if you bought nothing you pay nothing, but if you buy a jet plane you would pay for it. Similar to a luxury tax.

There definitely need to be changes in our healthcare system. When it appears that only the affluent can get the best of care in this country, and the working class has to go into debt for any lengthy injury or illness, it's not right. But on the other hand, how many of us are to blame for our own health woes? How many are overweight, smoke or just are seditary?

Now, as for Oswego's questions...

1) Social Security was originally started as an adjunct to retirement. But with many companies phasing out pensions, there has to be a better way. I agree with a "retirement account" with the person not being able to draw from it untill at least 62.

2) I remember in the past seeing a study that if everyone across the board paid something like 15% taxes (no more loopholes) that it would handle the costs of running the country. So, let's expand that a little (5% more??) and include a national healthcare initiative. Now, to just get some of us elected so we could do it (don't look at me, though. I know I have too many skeletons in my closets)

Edited July 1, 2007 by RescueKujo

[Goose 188]

On the care side of things, absolutely. There is never anything wrong with continuously setting the bar higher. On the money side of things, there is much need for reform. I would go as far as saying there should be federally mandated guidelines - IE: ambulance service has to be guaranteed, medically necessary ambulance transports, emergent medical care, etc. etc. etc. Medicare and Medicaid need to also start paying out an honest dollar amount for what their users utilize.

I don't know all of the issues exist, as i don't venture into the billing department often. I have my patients sign off on the billing form or CMN and in all honesty thats all i want to be involved in, its too much of a mess for me.

With that said, i don't think we should be pushing for a socialized welfare system for all. I think state governments should offer a basic coverage for those who cannot afford it up until a predetermined age, much as NY state does now for those children whose parents make under x dollars a year. If you want state run health care then your going to have to be willing to take a ticket and wait in line, and i'm talking a 6 month line for chemotherapy and other time sensitive procedures. One of my partner's from work is from Canada and his grandmother was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, waited six months to have it removed and by that time it had metastasized and is now waiting for chemotherapy treatment. Likewise, allot of people forget that those countries who have state run care are small compared to the United States. The birthrate is decreasing across Europe while its been increasing across the United States, couple that with 60 Million aging baby boomer's and that spells DISASTER.

Edited July 1, 2007 by Goose

[RescueKujo 130]

1 thing that should be regulated is the denial by insurance companies of ambulance trips to the ER and those visits. The way things are now, an insurance can deny payments if THEY determine the illness/injury to be non life threatening. That puts the onus on the patient to make decisions as a healthcare provider would. But the patient doesn't have the knowledge to make an informed decision. It should be taken as a "good faith" decision.

[Goose 188]

1 thing that should be regulated is the denial by insurance companies of ambulance trips to the ER and those visits. The way things are now, an insurance can deny payments if THEY determine the illness/injury to be non life threatening. That puts the onus on the patient to make decisions as a healthcare provider would. But the patient doesn't have the knowledge to make an informed decision. It should be taken as a "good faith" decision.

Very valid point Kujo!

[bil14ga 1]

OK, let's put Michael Moore and Socialized Healthcare aside for a moment.

Is there anyone here who thinks that the healthcare system in this country needs to be improved??????

In a word..... YES.

[Guest]

Alright, time to resurrect a very hot topic.

What’s Lacking in ‘Sicko’

By DAN MITCHELL

WHEN it comes to economic decisions, there are always trade-offs. Gain one thing and you lose something else. This is particularly true in health care, a market in which a scarce good is ridiculously expensive, but needed by everybody.

The central argument of Michael Moore’s movie “Sicko†— that the cure to the nation’s health care problems is a single-payer system — is hardly novel and is certainly worth consideration, whether or not you agree with it. But in comparing the American system with single-payer plans of other countries —Britain, France, Canada and Cuba — Mr. Moore left out the trade-offs, characterizing those countries as health care paradises.

The elisions have been noticed — and criticism is coming not just from Mr. Moore’s most bellicose and dogmatic detractors.

Kurt Loder, the film critic who is best known as the anchor of “MTV News,†wrote a scathing critique of the film for MTV’s Web site. “ ‘Sicko,’ †he allowed, “does a real service†in portraying victims of American insurance companies — like the people who died because their only treatment options were deemed “experimental†and therefore not covered.

But the film as a whole, he concluded, is “breathtakingly meretricious,†in large part because of its characterizations of other countries’ health care systems (mtv.com).

When “governments attempt to regulate the balance between a limited supply of health care and an unlimited demand for it, they’re inevitably forced to ration treatment,†Mr. Loder asserted. He ticked off a number of negative anecdotes and statistics to counter the positive ones offered by Mr. Moore. Mr. Loder cited the short film “Dead Meat,†which presents anecdotes of failure in the Canadian single-payer system. In its one-sidedness, “Dead Meat†(available online at onthefencefilms.com) might have made for a nice double feature with “Sicko,†and left moviegoers with a more complete understanding of the complications of deciding on a health care system.

Mr. Moore also decided to ignore or gloss over problems in other countries, like France’s high taxes and Britain’s cash-short hospitals.

This all makes an otherwise “emotionally compelling film not necessarily an intellectually gratifying one,†wrote Darren Barefoot, a Canadian blogger (darrenbarefoot.com).

I saw this review in the times today which led me to Kurt Loder (of MTV News fame). It was pretty scathing. http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1563758/story.jhtml Kurt does a good job pointing out the faults in Moore's movie. The review is long but speaks for itself.

Then there is the Cato Institutes poster boy filmmaker (http://onthefencefilms.com/video/deadmeat/deadmeat.html). His films are the antithesis of Michael Moore's. For those of you who do not know what the Cato Institute is, "The Cato Institute seeks to broaden the parameters of public policy debate to allow consideration of the traditional American principles of limited government, individual liberty, free markets and peace. Toward that goal, the Institute strives to achieve greater involvement of the intelligent, concerned lay public in questions of policy and the proper role of government." (www.cato.org) This film is just as biased to the right as "Sicko" is biased to socialism. I think the film quality is poor but it shows that centralized care fails people drastically too. But since there is no competition, there is no outlet for people dissatisfied with their care. He also made some other short films (less than ten minutes) on the same subject if you are interested. I recommend watching at least "dead meat" and "uninsured in america".

Yes, our health care system needs a lot of work but so do a lot of other facets of American Society. Government controlled health care is not the answer though. As with most problems in life, the easy, selfish answer is to blame the government and expect them to fix it. If the individual does not exercise his freedom of choice, he will soon find it does not exist anymore.

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1 thing that should be regulated is the denial by insurance companies of ambulance trips to the ER and those visits. The way things are now, an insurance can deny payments if THEY determine the illness/injury to be non life threatening.

Some of this can probably be attributed to the ambulance crew coding the run sheet as "non-necessary transport". If the patient really needed the transport, so be it...but the word "TAXI" comes to mind. Can't blame the insurance companies for not wanting to pay for taxi rides.

I think state governments should offer a basic coverage for those who cannot afford it up until a predetermined age, much as NY state does now for those children whose parents make under x dollars a year. If you want state run health care then your going to have to be willing to take a ticket and wait in line, and i'm talking a 6 month line for chemotherapy and other time sensitive procedures. One of my partner's from work is from Canada and his grandmother was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, waited six months to have it removed and by that time it had metastasized and is now waiting for chemotherapy treatment. Likewise, allot of people forget that those countries who have state run care are small compared to the United States.

I have many friends north of the boarder and have heard this story over and over. Many of them come to the US for medical care because in Canada, you are truly just a number in line.

Look around the next time you are in the ER, chances are you will see the big socialized medicine sign on the wall saying you can't be turned away because you can't pay. Then look behind you to see all the people who don't speak english or most likely don't have jobs. I see it all the time. The ER's are overloaded with people who use the facility as their personal physician because they know they can get away with not paying. It's the gov't who created the the policy and left it up to the hospitals to stay in business....they in turn raise rates for everyone and bill the insurance companies as such. The insurance companies then stick it to the folks who actually pay their bills...you and me. In essence, the socialists in our government have created taxes on the middle class working folks without having to take the fall for it....just blame the insurance companies.

Is our health care system broke...hell yea!

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As with most problems in life, the easy, selfish answer is to blame the government and expect them to fix it. If the individual does not exercise his freedom of choice, he will soon find it does not exist anymore.

But, as a citizen of this country, are we supposed to be complacent with the way the goverment operates? Is it not our duty and our heritage to fight for what is right?

One of the great thing about this country is that Michael Moore can make a film such as this. He's not making another stupid romantic comedy or stupid sequel. Regardless of how you feel about him, at least he's using his filmmaking powers to try and open eyes, and stir debate. Is he flamboyant about it? Sure. Is he right about everything? No. But the healthcare system in this country is very, very messed up. I've worked in heatlhcare as a Paramedic and in the Emergency Room at two major hospitals, and have seen several of the points brought up in the movie for myself.

In this Country, we closely regulate a whole bunch of thing. Utilities, Airlines, etc. Socialized healthcare has it's benefits, and it's drawbacks. Is it the answer for the US? I don't think so. But I do think the Goverment needs to step up and put stricter regulation on healthcare companies, and make sure everybody-whether they're a citizen or not- gets healthcare. This country was founded on the principle of people coming here for better lives for themselves and their families. No one should be denied or unable to access healthcare, and nobody should go broke because of it.

For example, a friend works as a contractor for a Pharmasutical company. She flies once a week from NY to San Francisco, stays in a hotel for 3 days, car service everywhere shes goes, etc. Average weekly trip is about $8,000-with coach airfare. This gets billed to the client-the pharma company. Now, couldn't the pharma company, whose medicine is very, very expensive, save by having this department in-house- which they are fully capable of doing, and passing the savings along to people, instead of declaring record profits, having a concert with A list bands for their employees, a beautiful campus, etc etc.

Doesn't anyone know senior citizens that are on a fixed income that have to choose between food and medicine?

I think that the American economy and healthcare system drives many innovations and cures for diseases. Competition is good. However, every one of our fellow human beings should be able to get treated, for any condition, at any time, regardless of financial or insurance status, without going into debt over it. We're human beings, and we all are in this boat together. Personally, I'm in debt for healthcare costs from an injury that shouldn't even be my responsibilty to pay for in the first place.

Hospitals used to be charities. Now, there business's. How can Westchester, who's population has increased, lose several hospitals? Why does that happen?

There's something wrong here. It's our jobs to pressure the goverment to fix it. Those who say it's not the goverments problem are probaly also those who must sit home on election day...because then what is the goverment for- to govern?