When is BIG to BIG

[OLDGUY19 6]

When I started in the fire service a 69 ALF w/6-71 DET, W/5x2 trans, air brakes was almost new.That engine is about 2/3 the size smaller than the new rigs of today.and it did the same work that we do today. I know I am not riding outside any more,A/C is great for the summer.but when you need to get to the hosebed or even the mattedales you need a step ladder, or in to a tight driveway you need to park outside(I know leave room for the truck),But why do we think bigger is better. Maybe we should rethink our outlook of overloading our rigs to do to much and simplfied. I know I am old school but not all changes are for the common good. P.S. One of the spares was 61 Seagrave v12 Cont.gas ,vac/juice brakes could go like hell but sure didn't want to stop

[lhfdvolly 21]

Ahhhhhhhhh, the good old days. How about 5 speed manual gearboxes that you had to double clutch. Boy, are we showing our age!

[firemoose827 324]

You guys are not showing your age, just your passion for the fire service.

Engines are getting bigger arent they? Most of the time you dont even use half of the stuff on it either!

Take it easy.

Moose

[Remember585 815]

I think rigs are getting bigger for a number of reasons. Here's what crosses my mind.

1. Cabs are bigger now because they are enclosed to safely seat everyone. Riding on the hosebeds is a no-no now so you have to put the troops somewhere.

2. An engine isn't just an engine in many places. In departments with less personnel and more responsibilities, an engine doubles as a rescue, a "Truck" and in many cases, EMS first-response. The added duties call for more equipment, hence more compartments.

3. Salesmen want that commission money, so they won't be quick to tell someone that the 11' high hosebed is a bad idea, if it means more truck that needs to be built.

4. Since an initial "blitz" attack of the traditional 500 gallons doesn't cut it in many cases due to all the crap burning in homes and cars, bigger tanks are more desired to handle the "smaller" stuff. Not to mention those without hydrants go for bigger tanks knowing additional water takes time to arrive.

5. Drawing misconceptions. I don't think a lot of people behind the designing of apparatus really understands how big the rig they've designed is until they actually see it. I know one rig that came in and surprised that Department when they finally saw it...

I agree that the smaller rigs were genuine workhorses and they always did their jobs. As our fleet gets older I keep wondering what the homeowners will do next to shrink down our access to their homes. Hopefully they wise up and call the FD before making changes so we can ensure our apparatus can get to them! Gates, stone pillars, tree-lined driveways, mile-long driveways....I guess they don't want us to get to them anytime soon...

[16fire5 693]

Great thread. I think the fire service has be hijacked by the industry led NFPA. So called safety police are making the rigs so big in fact they become dangerous. I am not saying everything done in the name of safety is wrong enclosed cabs are good. But just wait untill the southwest gets their way and SCBA are back in compartments. Funny how the rest of the world gets by without the monster trucks we have.

[ONLOCATION 24]

seriously............how much bigger are these rigs going to get.....build for the needs and restraints of your coverage district........don't build a rig that doesn't fit on half of your streets (which has happened numerious times before)...........

[ny10570 745]

Look at why your rigs have grown. In pleasantville we replaced a sports car sized Peirce with a very big Ferrara. 259 was packed with equipment. We had a half dozen cones, master stream, and manifold strapped to the top that were a b!tch to get down. At one time were were dependent on massive hose lays for a few parts of our district. With the new engine we have more equipment (redundancy for when some rigs can't get out), 1000 gallons of water and a 2000gpm pump (switching to tanker based ops from hose lays for our dry areas). To keep the engine going up all the hills and around all the corners means they had to add the space somewhere. Up is the only place to go.

[firecapt32 282]

first of all let me date my self--- first due 59 Peirsh ladder anad engine--second due 49- Aherans Fox--so ok I am old.

Big is not always better but we must concider the safety of enclosed cabs--bigger motors --better pumps--more specilized equipment --places for air pacs. large diamater hoses. There are lots of things that might increase the size of our apparatus. but we must also concider where we are protecting-- size of the streets--ength of driveways- size of the fire station--can you imiagine buying a piece of fire apparatus and not having a place to put it!! ohh wait thats already been done.

plus we have to concider who's driving our new million dollar tax payer apparatus--we must concider the people that are paying for the apparatus.