FD on PIAA's

[Guest DADAY]

Recently talking with a paramedic, who will remain nameless, he seemed very fustrated that FD goes on EMS and PIAA's. When asked the question why? He replied the only reason FD goes on EMS is to boost thier numbers. And piaa's there is no reason for them unless they are called to wash down or the car is on fire.

Now where I am involved the FD and EMS work very tightly, no major problems.

The question I present is how many people feel the same or different?

[DOC22 1]

WELL, LET'S SEE: FD DOES SPILL RESPONSE (IT'S HIGHLY ILLEGAL TO "WASH DOWN" ANY CHEMICAL/LIQUID SPILLED ON THE GROUND) BUT WE DO WHAT WE CAN. TRUE, WE'LL PUT IT OUT IF IT'S ON FIRE, many ff'S ARE ALSO EMTs WE ASSIST IF NOT RUN TRAFFIC CONTROL. SO THAT MEDIC NEEDS TO TAKE A MUCH CLOSER LOOK AT WHAT FD DOES AT AA's! I THINK WE ALL HAVE ENOUGH TO DO. WE DO NOT NEED TO "BOOST OUR NUMBERS"!

[DMA327 12]

Besides that a fire engine on the scene of an accident is great b/c you never know what you're going to have when you pull up! Might as well send em, if you don't need them then send them back

DOC made a few good points, many firefighters are either CFR's or EMT's, and if they're not, they are doing something else such as putting speedy dry on the ground, making the scene safer, cutting the battery, putting out a car fire, securing air bags, stabilizing p/t's for when the ambulance gets there... and the list goes on

[1075thebox 1]

A major benefit of FD response on EMS calls is the expediting of medical care. Most of the Departments in Westchester, volunteer and paid, arrive on scene prior to EMS.

Now, if you're talking about Departments doing what they can to "boost their numbers" - be careful of what you say. Many Departments are doing what they can to enhance their public relations - which can be important come time to buy a new rig or a new firehouse. A Department that goes that extra mile to help their public is more likely to get the support they need at budget time then those who brush off the "little things."

[Guest DADAY]

Might i remind all, that this was his opion not MINE

[BFD1054 1,552]

As i am involved in both FD & EMS, i would have to agree with everyone else so far and say that the FD is a great resource at an accident scene! Are there times when the FD really doesn't need to be at a MVA, sure there are! But i don't know of many ambulances that carry the equipment that the FDs do, that is neccesarry to stabalize a vehicle. Also, as most of you have said, many firefighters are CFR's or EMT's, so we can assist in patient care, or even just be used to maintain c-spine while the EMS agency does the rest. We have better PPE than most EMS providers, so we can climb in the car and do what we have to without worrying about getting cut. Many times, the FD is on scene before EMS because EMS may have to wait for a crew to arrive before responding. So i feel that if i were in an accident, i'd rather have someone there helping & comforting me, rather than waiting there. As DMA said, you never know what you're gonna find when you roll up, so why not send the FD, it can't hurt and they can always return! If the job is on a major road, if the FD doesn't do anything else, they can be a great asset to shut down a road and utilize the apparatus to block a scene and keep the personnel safe! I always keep in the back of my mind the fact that you can't always trust dispatch info 100%. 60-Control or whoever dispatches you, is usually getting this info from the general public, so their info may not be that correct. They may say it looks minor, but when EMS arrives, they realize they need extrication or there is fluids on the road or a car is on fire or whatever. I'd just much rather roll FD with EMS to be on the safe side, after all, they can always return if they are not needed!

[x635 4,066]

I think it's the Highway Pattrol cops who have more of a problem with Fire Apparatus then EMS. Sometimes for a logical reason, though.

As for me, for the most part, no problem here.

Gives us a couple extra hands, can manage hazards, lighting where neccasary and provide traffic control.

The main reason though......it's nice to have that big, red, flashy barricade....(when the driver actually positions the rig appropriately)

A side note- while removing a patient from a vehicle a few weeks ago after a seemingly minor MVA, the vehicle cabin started to smoke mid-removal. NO smoke or smell was present beforehand. Turned out the car had caught fire. This was about 7-9 minutes AFTER the impact...and 4 minutes AFTER they had opened the hood and disconnected the battery...thankfully, the FD was on scene.

[Pyroinvestigator 0]

many FD's are ems providers..they are state certified first response providers and ARE part of the EMS...so just because they don't have an ambulance...means nothing....all the points above say it all....I think it is a no brainer and shouldn't require much thought as to why FD is there....as for paid ambulance services....most only show up with 2 personel...not many hands to help with more than one patient...nor stablize, traffic, fire hazard, spill etc., how many of you show up to an mva and see the PD directing the traffic...even though not our job...we do it...and as for the padding numbers...as it was said....fires are down and how do you expect people to pay the same amount or more for our service....we have to do MORE...Vol. or Career.....just look at North WP...one of the only vol. FD's to run first response. People will notice that they are getting something for what they pay.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

Having the Fd respond to PIAA is a good thing, First you can alsways use an extra hand or two. Lets say your not needed, well then you can RTS . Plus another adsded benefit is that you can use your rigs to secure thescene , make them safe as you can use them as a wall to shied the EMS crew, patient and others at the scene.

a few weeks ago I had a discussion with the local chief pf police on why we need/should respond to PIAA. When I brought up the recent rash of fire/police/ems crews being involved in secondary crashes , he saw our point of view.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

FD responding to MVC's with injury is a wonderful thing, WHEN they respond in order to do functions which support the real reason why anyone is called in the first place....those whom are injured and those operating on the scene. I have heard several departments, time and time again call a 10-30, 10-20 because there are no fluids on the ground. That is only one minute part of why you are there in the first place. Or how many times I've seen improper apparatus placement, on such roads as Rte. 9 when there is still a lane or 2 of traffic flowing. Block the scene, support EMS. I could care less as to why any department responds to whatever, as long as YOU KNOW YOUR ROLE! AND DO IT PROPERLY.

[Medic137 6]

Having FD on the scene makes my job easier as a medic. Instead of having to stop patient care and pull out my portable to ask for extrication, or a second bus, or STAT Flight, I can turn around and say "Chief, I Need .....".

[Remember585 815]

Closing the lanes of traffic....wish some of those wearing white hats and 8-point hats would see this and understand it.

Too many times we'll pull up on an MVA and start to close the road, and those named above get all upset about it and make us move for traffic to get through.

I went to 2 MVAs in the last 48 hours, 1 with FD and 1 with the VAC. Both of these incidents traffic was allowed through, and at BOTH incidents we had to watch out back sides!

[Guest DADAY]

Glad to see that I am not alone in my feelings.

As a FF and EMT I like to have the FD on EMS not only PIAA's but medicals also.

Think of it this way; One of your loved ones or yourself, has a medical problem. Reponce time is 5 to 10 mins away. Now a Fire chief lives 2 houses down, and has all the medical equipment needed, minus a cot. Who in thier right mind would not want that fire chief to respond because hes FD? NOT ME

[JCESU 20]

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT PIAA STANDS FOR?

[Shantz02 0]

personal injury auto accident

[JCESU 20]

GOT IT THANKS TERM NOT USED DOWN HERE