Diversity In Your Department

[x635 4,066]

Here's a topic that's not often discussed. This goes for both paid AND volunteer.

How important is it TO YOU to have diversity in your department, and have the makeup of your department include and reflect the community it serves.

For example, does your department consist mostly of out-of-towners who come in for the action or because they work there, or the "old school", or mostly your community?

Does your department actively try and recruit members of the community, even those who haven't had the advantages some of us have had in life? Have you educated them about a career or volunteering in your department? Maybe they never knew, maybe they'd make a great firefighter or EMT but never have been extended a helping hand. Have you had mentors in your department, taking some youths and disadvantaged of the community under their wing?

Is your membership ACCEPTING and OPEN to ALL minorities, including women, gays, and lesbians? Would they feel welcome in your department?

I personally feel that there is a "good old boys club" complex out there, and it disgusts me. This is 2007, and we're all human beings and EXACTLY the same inside. A multicultural and diverse agency is beneficial on so many levels, I don't have the time to even start the list.

Of course, I don't agree with "dumbing down" anything in order to recruit minorities, I just think that SOME people and agenencies need to be more welcoming, and educating the public about what they do. IF they are able to meet the set standards that are fair, then what is the problem?

In some EMS agencies where I worked, I actively challenged some in the community and was succesful in recruiting several people. Today, one of those people made Supervisor at the EMS agency- he also owns his own home, etc. Most of this would never have been even imaginable to him without his invite into the EMS world. He even admits that he probaly would be in jail if it weren't for his life in "the box" (referring to where he performs his job-in the back of the ambulance) He came from the projects and had no interest in EMS at all-didn't even know the career existed and was basically a street thug, but underneath a good heart and ambition but no way to get or reconize what he wanted or anyone to encourage him...until he was stabbed and I was called to the scene.

Just something I wanted to get off my chest.

[AFS1970 504]

That's great that he was able to turn things around and find a career that he became successful in. I know there was a program in Connecticut that was seaking to teach EMT for free to inner city students, with the goal of employment at a local service.

My department is a little different in that as one of several districts that accepts volunteers in one city, historically our membership base has come from within or very close to our district, although this is changing. For an agency that started out as and in many ways remains a neighborhood organization, there is often nothing to attract people from outside the neighborhood and often little interest in actively recruiting ouside the neighborhood.

I generally disagree with targeting specific groups in recruiting, because I think that, well intentioned as it may be, it ends up alienating the groups you didn't target. I would rather see a program that is welcoming to everyone without making a point out of any specific group or feature. The end goal is after all to bring people into what we all call a brotherhood. If the existing membership perceives that someone was fast tracked due to special considerations little if any sense of brotherhood will exist.

[Guest]

I could care less what race, nationality, religion or creed you are I just want someone who will show some degree of interest and initiative in the job and not have to be persuaded to choose a Career either in the FD, PD or EMS to reach some qouta! Who gives a rats a** what kind of upbringing one had or where they lived or still live. If someone is really interested in a particular field of employment, they'll research and find out everything there is to know about that profession and then pursue it, if it still interests them. That's exactly the kind of person I also want backing me up on the line, not some individual that had to be coerced into taking the job and honestly couldn't give a friggin hoot about the career path they have chosen and that's exactly what's happening within the Fire Service abroad and why our profession is in such jeapordy these days. Does everybody deserve a chance? Sure, why not. However, not in a profession that's sworn to protecting life and property and is as hazardous as ours. I'll take tradition any day over diversity, with regards to this aspect. Let's stop worrying about numbers and hire those who are most qualified. After all, we owe it to those paying our salaries. Don't we?

Edited June 14, 2007 by LongShanks

[antiquefirelt 994]

I believe our dept. has evolved in the last 5 years to be pretty open to anyone who is interested. The hardest part is that we still are crude, rude and fairly abrasive behind closed doors. Now we understand we can't hide behind the "its a firehouse what do you expect" argument. That being said, we've had four career firefighter/EMS people who are female. At least two of them can be as crude as an man I know. We area in a fairly ethnically devoid area so unless you figure in my part Sicilian bloodline we have no minority firefighters. I agree with BFD182 that targeting certain populations is wrong. There are plenty of capable people who want to be firefighters and cops, we do not need to try and convince more people to try with promise of money and benefits.

We do not recruit any members unless it word of mouth friend to friend. But I/we don't care what you are, if you want to be a firefighter and are motivated and have a strong work ethic and ready are to learn, we'll take you. At least two of our females are as tough as most of their counterparts and have the drive to do the job. I won't say there aren't issues and the females tend to be way more vindictive and bitter when they think they've been wronged. All in all diversity has been tougher on the people with rank than the troops. It's tough keeping the jokes appropriate for the audience and dealing with some of the issues that arise. All the firefighters have to do is talk like their mom is in

the room.

[x635 4,066]

I'm not saying having to persuade people to take the job, and I agree that's wrong.

I'm preaching outreach here. Do you ever go to a call in the projects, and see a toddler and wonder what his or her future will hold, given the assumed oppresive upbringing? They've probaly never had a real role model to follow, and no one in their family has ever amounted to anything. Chances are, as this child grows up, he or she will also probaly be resigned to "life on the streets" or some low paying, minmum wage job and start the cycle over if they have a child.

Now, take that same child. Remembering that it's your departments duty to educate the public about what you do, you go to a High School and make a presentation about the job. Have a mentoring or Explorer program. Now that child sees a challenge, and oppurtunity. He gets on the job, has a succesful career, is able to be a role model, able to provide for his family, send his kids to college....and with that one person RECRUITED, how have we impacted the community at large?

You know why the Fire Service and PD has a rich Irish and Italian heritage? Because being a Firefighter and Cop used to be a really tough, low paying job that not many wanted to do. So the Irish and Italians, who were MINORITIES at the time, took the job. And those same people fought for making the job rewarding in many communities. Now, we basically only want the thousands of buffs and family from the suburbs who want the jobs, granted for the right reasons, but don't want to BREED enthusiasm for the job from the community within.

Now, please don't misunderstand my comments- I am against dumbing down or lowering requirments just to meet politically correct numbers, BUT, I am for bringing the people up to meet the requirments from an early age.

It's also sad that more people haven't weighed in.

[Fireman488 57]

I like to refer to our department as the "League of Nations," with a good percentage of female members, as well.

Diversity is not an issue for us.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Fireman488

[ex-commish 490]

I like to refer to our department as the "League of Nations," with a good percentage of female members, as well.

Diversity is not an issue for us.

←

This may sound off base but recently there has been a huge focus on immigration, particulary the Spanish population. Just about every town, village and city has seen an increase of people from South Amreica, Mexico and other countries of Spanish decent many which in my opinion are hard working, decent people and are legal. Why not reach out to them to see if they had interest in helping thier communities? I have had those of Latino decent in some of the classes I have taught and they were great sutudents and some of them I see on occasion and they are great firefighters and again, very decent hard working people who want to be part of the community.

And I hope this is not viewed that I am seeking or targeting only those of Spanish decent it is that it seems they are the dominant in-flux of immigrants.

[robert benz 344]

i dont buy the whole "i didnt know how to become one" deal. there are people out there that DONT WANT TO BE IN A FIRE OR A COP OR WHATEVER. This is 2007 not 1950, i am tired of hearing how we have to shove a job at somebody to get them to take it. if you put the word out on the street that you could sign up to be a firefighter, never have to show up for work, and still get paid i wonder how many applicants you would get then.

I DONT CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE OR WHERE YOU WERE BORN THOSE THAT WANT THE JOB GO AFTER IT THOSE THAT DONT DONT

maybe i am too old school for this world

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I agree with Bob. If you want to be something you either know the procedures needed to do it or you find out.

[Guest]

i dont buy the whole "i didnt know how to become one" deal. there are people out there that DONT WANT TO BE IN A FIRE OR A COP OR WHATEVER.  This is 2007 not 1950, i am tired of hearing how we have to shove a job at somebody to get them to take it.  if you put the word out on the street that you could sign up to be a firefighter, never have to show up for work, and still get paid  i wonder how many applicants you would get then.

I DONT CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE OR WHERE YOU WERE BORN THOSE THAT WANT THE JOB GO AFTER IT  THOSE THAT DONT  DONT 

maybe i am too old school for this world

←

No Bob, you're not too old school for the job, in fact that's what we need more of in our profession, Old School Rational. Everybody these days want's to be taken by the hand and shown how to do something, instead of showing some friggin initiative for once. GOD forbid also, if you don't lead the horse to water, then you'll be labeled, even if he didn't drink it!

[x635 4,066]

So, are you saying it's not possible to have a department that reflects the community, and that it's not possible to help people that are at a disadvantage?

Is old school firefighting rationale about helping yourself, or helping OTHERS?

It's NOT about "shoving" the jobs at people, it's about BREEDING a love and want for the job in a community that's typically been opressed by the fire service. It's about HELPING the community YOU serve.

The rest of my response to those comments you can read by my previous reply above.

[Guest]

So, are you saying it's not possible to have a department that reflects the community, and that it's not possible to help people that are at a disadvantage?

Is old school firefighting rationale about helping yourself, or helping OTHERS?

It's NOT about "shoving" the jobs at people, it's about BREEDING a love and want for the job in a community that's typically been opressed  by the fire service. It's about HELPING the community YOU serve.

The rest of my response to those comments you can read by my previous reply above.

←

Why is it so important that a Dept. reflects a Community? So long as a firefighter upholds the oath he took when he was sworn in, does it really matter what race, nationality,religion or gender they are. From my experience, people in an emergency, whether it be fire, ems, or hazardous related really don't give a s*** who you are. They just want help and want it quick. Period! If a Dept. should reflect its Community, then lets go all the way and have all the Irish ffs. protect the Woodside and Woodlawn areas of the Bronx, the Italian ffs. can protect both Little Italy's, the Jewish ffs. hold down the fort in Riverdale and the sections they control in Brooklyn, the Black and Hispanic ffs. will protect their domains, and so on and so on. Talk about having a segregated Dept. Oh, by the way, old school firefighting has always been about helping others, whether that be aiding those citizens in need within the community you work in, or assisting those who are aspiring to be a firefighter by giving them your undivided attention when they question you about the JOB, at their own free will I may add.

[Stepjam 118]

I think the whole "diversity" issue is overplayed, and is a nice way of saying "reverse discrimination." The word is often misused, and I confess that I do have some contempt for the term "diversity." It's too often just another way of saying "quota." What happened to the "melting pot" concept that so many of us were taught in school?

Long ago, I and many others were shuffled down a certain list because we were not the right color/gender. This was an open fact: Governor Cuomo set a quota that no more than 40% of any recruit class could consist of white males. Period. I had to qualify twice on the physical fitness exam, and passed with flying colors both times. I was number 149 on a list from which 400 were selected, I made the cut just before the list expired. By then, I was no longer interested and pretty much disgusted. That was 1984.

I think that administration and government need to take a "hands-off/mouth shut" approach in this issue, and let "diversity" take care of itself. Some people are drawn to public service, some are not, and others put those emergency services to the test every day by their actions and lifestyles. If someone has the vocation and can fulfill the rigorous requirements and compete EQUALLY, then the job should be theirs.

Color, creed, gender, national origin, and sexual orientation should have no bearing on any persons' choice to serve or their ability to do so. I frankly don't care what color someone is when they show up in response to a call for help.

[Remember585 815]

Why should the fire service or even the law enforcement community go out of it's way to try and recruit people of minority groups?! I don't see any benefit from this. If someone wants to pursue this career path they will. More taxpayer money is pissed away recruiting people who OBVIOUSLY have no real desire to do the job. If they did they wouldn't sit on their a** and wait for it to come to them.

If you want to find good, solid people to take the test - advertise it but don't target it towards certain groups. People will hear about it and go for it IF THEY WANT IT!

In Vollyland where I hail from, I don't care who it is knocking on our doors to join. If they have some common sense, a willingness to train and be open-minded with a dash of energy, WELCOME ABOARD.

*Applicants approval dependent upon criminal and arson background checks. This ends this Public Service Announcement.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Remember585

[Bababoosky 24]

Reflect the community? Isn't that why the majority of the departments in Westchester County, and the rest of the country have residency requirements? This is so that way people who want the job, and actually have a stake in the community have first shot at it! You cannot force someone to take a test.

I don't think that what color someone is, their sexual preference, or gender should make any difference. THEY should be the ones to take the INITIATIVE to get the job! I don't care where you are from, what language you speak EVERYONE knows what a police car, fire truck, and ambulance look like. They know who works on them, and what they do. Therefore just responding is advertisement enough for the job. I think that you should always represent your respected department and answer questions in the truthful manner to those that ask. Every year we go into different schools, jobs, etc for fire safety. Giving everyone an idea of what WE do, and why WE do it.

You don't see Law firms, Financial Institutions, Hospitals, etc going out of their way to recruit specific demographics. You know why? Because you have to have the drive, and ambition to do what it takes to achieve your goal.

[Guest]

Reflect the community?  Isn't that why the majority of the departments in Westchester County, and the rest of the country have residency requirements?  This is so that way people who want the job, and actually have a stake in the community have first shot at it!  You cannot force someone to take a test.

I don't think that what color someone is, their sexual preference, or gender should make any difference.  THEY should be the ones to take the INITIATIVE to get the job!  I don't care where you are from, what language you speak EVERYONE knows what a police car, fire truck, and ambulance look like.  They know who works on them, and what they do.  Therefore just responding is advertisement enough for the job.  I think that you should always represent your respected department and answer questions in the truthful manner to those that ask.  Every year we go into different schools, jobs, etc for fire safety.  Giving everyone an idea of what  WE do, and why WE do it.

You don't see Law firms, Financial Institutions, Hospitals, etc going out of their way to recruit specific demographics.  You know why?  Because you have to have the drive, and ambition to do what it takes to achieve your goal.

←

FCKING A!!! Its not the departments responsibility, nor is it the employees!!! Its as easy as this gents...you want someting, you go get it! You dont wait for someone to come ask you. And if you dont want it, then thats fine too, but stop complaining that you dont have it and use BS excuses like your color, background, religion or sexual orientation etc. Is the NHL going to get sued for not having enough black hockey players??? Should I start suing Harvard or Yale for not coming after me??!! Oh wait, I got it! I'll go sue the lawfirms for not hiring me just becuase I dont have a law degree. I mean, whats a law degree anyways??? Its only a REQUIREMENT for that job! This whole situation just baffles me, and the people who actually think that the FD and/or the firefighters are to blame have to rethink the situation. The residency requirement is a very good point, that I never looked at before. I dont think that any organization should EVER EVER EVER change anything within their requirements to attract candidates from different backgrounds. Unfortunately, alot of places do (Ex: FDNY with the CPAT, college credits etc) , but thankfully some places dont (Ex: Guys want the NYPD to knock out the 60 credits, but Kelly said, Fck No)! You keep the standards high and tough, and those who get it, GET IT! If not, keep trying, and if you really want it, it'll happen someday. Dont blame your mommies and daddies, or the fact that your school sucked. If you can read a Maxim magazine, or understand what they say on MTV, you can pass an a simple entrance exam (how well you do is a different story, but you get what you put in!). I'm not saying that there shouldnt be diversity in a department at all! Of course it's a good thing, but the steps they take in order to do it, can destroy a department. What you have to realize, whether you like it or not, whether it sounds mean or not, is that ALL these steps that are trying to bring in a "certain kind of person" are meant as a SELF-SERVING action, NOT as a benefit for the whole. If your white, black, yellow, green, purple, male, female, tranny, whatever! You follow the appropriate given guidelines, and hope you get it. Dont try to change society around you just because you feel you're a "victim".

[Guest]

So, are you saying it's not possible to have a department that reflects the community, and that it's not possible to help people that are at a disadvantage?

←

Disadvantage???

I see where your sympathy might come in Seth, dont get me wrong. But dont misunderstood, that just cause the site primarily talks about ritsy and ditsy Westchester County, that all of us grew up in huge mansions having our breakfast brought to us in bed before attending our prep schools. I'm sure I speak for alot of guys on here when I say I wasnt brought up in such an "advantaged" family. I made my way, did my research and came through, getting closer to my dreams as each day goes by. Its something called Self-motivation...the military can teach you that very well! Thats all it takes for someone to wake up and realize what they want. There's a difference between motivated individuals who have a hard time getting somewhere, and individuals who dont even try, but expect guaranteed results. I would think that between all the media, tv shows, action figures, movies and actually seeing the fire trucks and firefighters in action, that's enough of an "recruitment" effort needed. If the individual feels so strongly that his local FD/PD isnt diverse enough, than he/she/it should join the real way and change it, not complain and have them change themselves. Action speaks louder than words...

[x635 4,066]

Calm down, and read what I'm trying to say. I think many people are afraid of the competition an job education/public relations campaign might create.

Also, I still hear people in this business referring to these minority groups by using racial slurs, which I find offensive and disgusting. And, although no one is going to admit it, I think this is still a strong reason.

For years as a society we have opressed people, and continue to be completly ignorant of it, as this thread shows.

PLEASE! Reread my comments- I'm not advoating pushing for minorities and handing them a job, or for lowering standards, I'm for EDUCATING the community AT LARGE about our job- a recruitment campaign- the more people you have take the test (which is whole 'nother story), the better the pool of firefighters you have to pick from. A good firefighter doesn't have to come from a firefighting background.......do we want somebody who can be trained to be a great firefighter, or somebody who justs wants to be a firefighter?

I AGREE and understand that some of the "politically correct" hiring tatics are very, very wrong and are done for the wrong reasons, and a lot of people are screwed by it. Standards should NOT be lowered in order to recruit for the wrong reasons. But I do feel that there's a majority of the "in the know" who think that if people are interested in a job, they should know how to get it.

I think a lot of people are just threatened by this.

You don't see Law firms, Financial Institutions, Hospitals, etc going out of their way to recruit specific demographics.  You know why?  Because you have to have the drive, and ambition to do what it takes to achieve your goal.

←

Uh, yeah they do. Many of the afformentioned institutions have targeted recruitment efforts, especially at colleges.

[Guest]

Seth, I have no problem being the first one to admit it. I'm sure its part of the problem, but on BOTH ends! No one can deny that! You can't be fooled by groups such as the Vulcan Society and others. I'm sure they say the same sorts of stuff behind closed doors.

I understand you are not advocating for lowering the standards, and not once did I claim that you were. But you asked a question, so naturally, people will respond with what they feel. And everything everyone has posted so far, have everything to do with the topic at hand. Its not as easy as just saying that departments arent diverse, or that recruitments efforts need to be increased....there is more details and facts hiding in the shadows that people are scared to discuss.

[Bababoosky 24]

Uh, yeah they do. Many of the afformentioned institutions have targeted recruitment efforts, especially at colleges.

←

The key word in my statement was Demographics. You are saying college students on a whole. Last time I checked, almost every High School in the area, at some point in their scholastic year have a Career/Job fair. Many agencies (civil service, and civilian) attend and talk to the students about career paths and how to get there. The majority of these jobs require the students to go on to college. And the wonderful thing about this country is that if you want to go to college you can apply for student loans, so that nothing can hold you back but yourself.

I also think that many of the departments have a Police/Fire day (I know Mt Pleasant and Greenburgh PD's recently had one, Westchester County Fleet day, etc.) Where the community is allowed to show up, watch demo's and learn about their jobs, and how to become an LEO/FF if they so choose. I don't see how much more recruitment they can do.

[x635 4,066]

I also think that many of the departments have a Police/Fire day (I know Mt Pleasant and Greenburgh PD's recently had one, Westchester County Fleet day, etc.)  Where the community is allowed to show up, watch demo's and learn about their jobs, and how to become an LEO/FF if they so choose.  I don't see how much more recruitment they can do.

←

The Fleet Day isn't a public event, and I don't know about Mt. Pleasant, but Greenburgh PD did not have a recuriting drive....BUT, they are a very diverse department that does represent the community. The PD's are much more diverse then FD's.

I also want to add that I think points should be awarded on tests to those who have certain courses, college, etc.

Also, traditionally, these jobs have been held by caucasian males. So there's not a big chain to the minorities like "my dad was a firefigher", etc. Nor do these kids live in jurisdictions where there's a volunteer department. They probaly don't know anyone that's been or is a firefighter. I GUARENTEE you that in 50 years, this will all change.

This is about OUTREACH!!!!!!!

[Stepjam 118]

Sorry, but how does "disadvantaged" come into the discussion?

This is what pisses me off. If someone is "disadvantaged" because they can't read a damn newspaper ad, or because they don't want to enter the "establishment" by walking into the public library and filling out an application, then what kind of firefighter/police officer/EMT are they going to be with that level of education and motivation? People like that should just listen to Reverend Al, he has all the answers to their problems.

Sorry, I grew up in a broken home in what was arguably the WORST section of Yonkers (Ludlow/Highland/Riverdale area), where I was a minority in the extreme. So, I learned how to run fast, and how to fight when cornered. I attended those "racially segregated" public schools and learned how to read, write, add and subtract quite well, because I WANTED TO LEARN, and because I knew that I didn't want my kids growing up there.

As I mentioned before, when my shot at Civil Service rolled around, I was labelled as overpriveleged, overrepresented, and told that white males need not apply by our own beloved state government. There is no greater disadvantage than being officially discriminated against with the blessing of Lib-Tard politicians.

I did okay without a handout or quota, so the whole topic of "diversity" really gets nowhere fast with me.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Stepjam

[Bababoosky 24]

I understand that point you are trying to make about outreach. I think that the departments then should ask for larger budgets from their jurisdictions so that way they can take ads out in newspapers, tv/radio commercials (in English and Spanish), and build better, more informative websites.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Bababoosky

[Guest]

first off...keeps the ads in enlgish! how do you expect to have firefighters who cant even speak out language. dont get me started on that issue, heh!

having a father, brother, mother sister etc. on the job has nothing to do with it. sure, it might sound good and all, but that doensnt mean that a person who doesnt have a relative on the job cant have the same passion and motivation. they would just lack the family tradition. my father isnt a CIA agent, nor is there a CIA building around here...does that mean that i'm disadvantaged and uneligible to do my research on how to become one and go for it?

[x635 4,066]

I understand that point you are trying to make about outreach.  I think that the departments then should ask for larger budgets from their jurisdictions so that way they can take ads out in newspapers, tv/radio commercials (in English and Spanish), and build better, more informative websites.

←

And that is much the part of my point.

And Stepjam, I completly understand yours as well, a lot of the "racial politics" part of it is bullshit and the Sharpton type people are hindering instead of helping things. Standards should be equal for everyone, but we are all human beings and need to start learning to help one another instead of helping ourselves. You may have grown up as the minority, but I'm sure that your/our history hasn't had segregations, racism, and oh yeah, slavery. Our ancestors have caused a lot of the inner-city problems, and my generation I hope willl be the start to changing things. You wanted to learn...exactly....you didn't want to learn to better your community, you wanted to learn so you could get out, no reinvestment there and understanably so. But how do we help others to do so? I completly understand your frusteration, but the current situation cannot continue.

From the way most people sound on here, it's everyone for their own. Is a city that's 95% African American and has a 100% white male firefighting force, of which 100% live outside the communtiy they serve and have never lived in it, and therefore have no real vested interest in it...is that justifiable?

BTW, there's nothing personal here....it's just a debate.

[Guest]

ps...excuse all the misspellings...i'm typing this stuff up fast!

[Stepjam 118]

You may have grown up as the minority, but I'm sure that your/our history hasn't had segregations, racism, and oh yeah, slavery. Our ancestors have caused a lot of the inner-city problems.

←

Seth,

All due respect, but come on now.

Are you an Irish Catholic or a first-generation American? I am both. I could go on and on about Ireland and the Irish, and what was done to them as a race, but I won't. Does Cromwell ring any bells? There are enough here who probably know where I'm going with that statement. Do Russian Jews who emigrated here bear the same historical blame legacy of the original English colonists? By that logic, being "white" makes me somehow responsible for the failings of someone else, without regard to how they or their ancestors got here. Currently, there are a large number of black people emigrating from various African countries to the US. I wonder if they feel "disadvantaged" and entitled to something that they didn't earn as well? I doubt it.

And from my experience and perspective, the "inner city problems" are caused not by me or anything my ancestors might have done (they weren't here), but by some of the people who inhabit those neighborhoods, or by dysfunctional families and a lack of role models other than an NBA star, a "Rap Artist," or the local drug dealer. Where are the community activists and big mouths? They're getting by tax-free because of their clergy status, and living in North Jersey.

If you foster a culture of blaming someone for your own shortcomings, as we have done in this country for decades, ultimately the intent of that culture will fail those that it's meant to help, and will rot out our society from within. Sorry, I know you aren't looking for a debate, but some of us have been touched by this issue in ways that you can't imagine.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Stepjam

[Guest partyrock]

but I'm sure that your/our history hasn't had segregations, racism, and oh yeah, slavery. Our ancestors have caused a lot of the inner-city problems, and my generation I hope willl be the start to changing things. 

←

Would you please stop with the f-ing white guilt. I am black and nothing pisses me off more than people like you who come around saying aww look at the poor minority he's been opressed and needs to be lifted up. If you people would stop coddling us and making excuses for our failure maybe we would actually do somethign for ourselves. Segregation, slavery, jim crow; all of these things are in our past. Every group was sh!t on by those that were here all ready. Yeah, there are reasons why new groups have a harder time integrating into society for alot of reasosn that I'm not going to get into here. Thats not the place of jobs like firefighter or cop or any job for that matter. Make the job known to the people in the community. FDNY did that last year. But keep the standards up. In fact I'm for increasing the standards. You don't need to drag the poeple kicking and screaming into the test, just advertise the damn thing in places they're likely to read it. Minorities have managed to find their way into every other job in the city so if they want it they'll eventually get to the fire dept. and find out that the racisim and bigotry that is suppose to be so pervasive just isn't there.

[Bababoosky 24]

Would you please stop with the f-ing white guilt.  I am black and nothing pisses me off more than people like you who come around saying aww look at the poor minority he's been opressed and needs to be lifted up.  If you people would stop coddling us and making excuses for our failure maybe we would actually do somethign for ourselves.  Segregation, slavery, jim crow; all of these things are in our past.  Every group was sh!t on by those that were here all ready.  Yeah, there are reasons why new groups have a harder time integrating into society for alot of reasosn that I'm not going to get into here.  Thats not the place of jobs like firefighter or cop or any job for that matter.  Make the job known to the people in the community.  FDNY did that last year.  But keep the standards up.  In fact I'm for increasing the standards.  You don't need to drag the poeple kicking and screaming into the test, just advertise the damn thing in places they're likely to read it.  Minorities have managed to find their way into every other job in the city so if they want it they'll eventually get to the fire dept. and find out that the racisim and bigotry that is suppose to be so pervasive just isn't there.

←

Well said!

[x635 4,066]

Let's just ignore the atrocities that we have commited against our own people (I'M TALKING ABOUT EVERY RACE-THERE ARE WHITE PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY TOO!), they have to worry about putting a meal on the table while we contemplate putting a flat screen TV in. I'm sorry, but I see the gap between rich and poor growing wider every day, and people taking less and less responsibility and ownership for the communities that they live in, and it disgusts me.

I was looking to breed some intelligent discussion, and that's why I started this topic- but I am done with it now, especially since people are taking my words and misreading them. I don't take anything personally, and appreciate the responses.

As far as I am concerned, there isn't enough diversity in the fire service in a lot of places, but not all., and you can't convince me that there's not. There is still significant racism and beleifs of stereotypes. It exists, I've witnessed it, and those who deny it are living in a fantasy world.

What this thread has said to me is that some people don't give a crap about helping others really. People make excuses, and place blame, yet give no resolution. Someone mentioned lack of a proper role model....couldn't a fire service mentorship program change that?

How did I get on the job? I more or less always wanted to be a firefighter, but one day the FD came to my high school when I was in the 9th grade to recruit for their explorer post, and I happened to come up with my curiousity, and from then on I never wanted to do anything else. I wonder if my life would be different if the FD wasn't at my school that day.

I want kids everywhere from every background to know that they too can be a firefighter, police officer, or paramedic. I strongly feel it's our role to promote that.

Most of the recruiting criticism comes from those who don't have the job and are afraid of competition or are bitter that they didn't, and those on the job simply don't care.

We need to foster a culture that takes responsibilty for their actions, and ownership for the community they live and/or work in. We have a tremendous impact on peoples lives on a daily basis, and we should use that power to help change some peoples lives for the better.

As far as the immigration concerns that were brought up....how was the USA founded? By people escaping here, looking for a better life. That's why we have the mix of cultures in this country that we do. We are all lucky to be born here......we could have been born in Darfur.....

Enough said. My OPINION only.