Firefighters Told to Cut Grass on Duty

[DES630 10]

Firefighters Told to Cut Grass on Duty

EAST CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- The mayor has ordered the city's firefighters to cut grass and trim shrubs while on duty to help the service department care for parks and other public areas.

"We have 54 firefighters, and they have a lot of downtime," Mayor Eric Brewer said Thursday. "Instead of sitting around the station, they'll be assisting us as we beautify the city."

The firefighters' union opposes the plan, arguing that noise from city lawnmowers and protective headphones worn by firefighters might prevent them from hearing their radios when an emergency call comes in.

"We're firefighters, not service workers," union vice president Rick Razek said. "It jeopardizes our citizens and will absolutely hinder our response time."

The mayor's plan calls for firefighters to travel in a fire truck to their assigned work site and to keep their firefighting gear with them so they can proceed directly to the scene of a fire if called.

The new duties are similar to other non-fire-related tasks performed by firefighters, such as checking hydrants, conducting fire inspections or visiting schools, said Ken Adams, deputy safety director of the Cleveland suburb.

A city law passed in 1944 authorizes the mayor to order special details for performing duties such as removing snow and ice from sidewalks and repairing buildings and equipment. The ordinance was enacted during a time when cities needed help with manual labor as many men served in the military overseas.

"This is simply an attempt to beef up a service that has been lacking for a number of years," Brewer said Thursday as he watched several firefighters receive training on a riding lawnmower.

"Actually, that looks like fun," he said. "I might get out there and cut some grass myself."

[calhobs 110]

I have heard of some paid Departments doing this on the grounds of the fire house, but never off that.

[JBE 328]

This is a bit much. Sounds like the mayor is trying to cut costs. Yeah, take care of the grounds around the firehouse, but at a park?? Come on. The first time someone loses a toe....You can see where I'm going with this.

[HFD201 0]

I think the same mayor ordered firefighters to act as police officers as well and issue minor infractions such as parking tickets etc. I made a post several weeks back concerning this but couldnt find it. If anyone can find it and post a link that would be appreciated.

[E58RET 24]

Taking care of the area around your staion is within the realm of station duties,but providing basically DPW duties is a little far fetched. The question being, what if you are on the far side of your assigned response district cutting grass when you are assigned fisrt due to a confirmed structure fire???

[ex-commish 490]

Taking care of the area around your staion is within the realm of station duties,but providing  basically DPW duties is a little far fetched. The question being, what if you are on the far side of your assigned response district cutting grass when you are assigned fisrt due to a confirmed structure fire???

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If a firefighter gets hurt cutting grass is he/she covered as if it was during a fire or other job related task?

[huzzie59 75]

East Cleveland Fire Station 1

1822 Marloes Avenue

East Cleveland, Ohio 44112

East Cleveland Fire Station 2

14301 Shaw Avenue

East Cleveland, Ohio 44112

East Cleveland Demographics

As of the census of 2000, there are 27,217 people

The population density is 8,761.8/mi².

the city has a total area of 3.1 mi²

Village of Tarrytown is the same size and has a population of 11,090. Population density of 3,724 /mi²

54 employees of a city the size of Tarrytown, 15 men per shift?

[Guest Chip025]

East Cleveland Fire Station 1

1822 Marloes Avenue

East Cleveland, Ohio 44112

East Cleveland Fire Station 2

14301 Shaw Avenue

East Cleveland, Ohio 44112

East Cleveland Demographics

As of the census of 2000, there are 27,217 people

The population density is 8,761.8/mi².

the city has a total area of 3.1 mi²

Village of Tarrytown is the same size and has a population of 11,090. Population density of 3,724 /mi²

54 employees of a city the size of Tarrytown, 15 men per shift?

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And your point?

[huzzie59 75]

Sorry got interupted by an ambulance call.

Here are their run totals:

2004: 6,802 total runs

EMS RUNS = 5,061

FIRE RUNS = 1,741

-structure fires = 36

2005: 6,361 total runs

EMS RUNS = 4,948

FIRE RUNS = 1,412

- GSW = 29

-structure fires = 28

2006: 5,221 total runs

- GSW = 30

- structure fires = 51

At first I was going to say they must have all the time in the world to cut grass and may even be happy for something to do. But they are real busy for such a small area.

And unless all these calls come after 5pm, then who has time to cut grass?

[khas143 13]

Sorry got interupted by an ambulance call.

Here are their run totals:

2004: 6,802 total runs

EMS RUNS = 5,061

FIRE RUNS = 1,741

        -structure fires = 36

 

2005: 6,361 total runs

EMS RUNS = 4,948

FIRE RUNS = 1,412

        - GSW = 29

        -structure fires = 28

2006: 5,221 total runs

        - GSW = 30

        - structure fires = 51

At first I was going to say they must have all the time in the world to cut grass and may even be happy for something to do. But they are real busy for such a small area.

And unless all these calls come after 5pm, then who has time to cut grass?

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Despite run numbers it really all depends what is in their union contract. It may not be right but if it is legal, what are they to do?

[Fex404 0]

not that it is right -- but just to play devils advocate ---- they are getting paid and many of you know and do jobs that you may have not signed up to do but you do them because the person who cuts the checks tells you to. Its a job.

[AFS1970 504]

Politicians complaining about the "downtime" in a firehouse is always a problem. They do not understrand that time spent between calls might actually be better used to train or perform equipment maintenance.

I can not immagine how cutting the grass in a park is in any way similar to checking hydrants, conducting fire inspections or visiting a school to talk about fire prevention.

I remember hearing years ago the idea from somewhere (I can't remember where) that Firefighters should serve as school crossing guards. This would have required the crew to be split up at different interscetion and delay response while they reassembled. This plan was ultimately abandoned because it did not allow for who would act as the crossing guards if a fire call came in.

[robert benz 344]

Sorry got interupted by an ambulance call.

Here are their run totals:

2004: 6,802 total runs

EMS RUNS = 5,061

FIRE RUNS = 1,741

        -structure fires = 36

 

2005: 6,361 total runs

EMS RUNS = 4,948

FIRE RUNS = 1,412

        - GSW = 29

        -structure fires = 28

2006: 5,221 total runs

        - GSW = 30

        - structure fires = 51

At first I was going to say they must have all the time in the world to cut grass and may even be happy for something to do. But they are real busy for such a small area.

And unless all these calls come after 5pm, then who has time to cut grass?

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just the fact you thought that they as firefighters should cut the park grass and be happy about it ????? lets see what do you do for a living, and ask you to do someone elses work. Hell why dont they pick up garbage and paint park benches, trim trees who needs any other city workers we got firefighters

[robert benz 344]

there was time not to long ago a mayor ordered the beds removed from all firehouses in a very busy city. he didnt want them to get paid to sleep and ordered the firefighters to man all apparatus and with lights flashing, drive around the city all nite to deter crime. A few apparatus accidents later and the order was recinded.

Is that part of our job description?

Fire protection isnt cheap, paid or vol. but nobody else is going to do it.

Depts both paid and vol. have to show the community a positive image and have the political clout to stop stupid sh*t like that from happening.

[HFD750 6]

I thought cutting the grass was my job...

[jd783 64]

It is not the FF job to maintain a park BUT it is another persons job If they agree to this they are taking away a DPW workers job. Should the FF due maintenece around their firehouse yes, let the Parks Dept take care of the grass maybe when the mayors house catches fire and the guys have to put away the weedwakers and response time is slow he will rethink. Do we get paid to sleep Yes Do we get paid to stay up all night fighting a fire in sub zero weather YES This guys an a$$

[ajsbear 11]

What happens to the weed wackers, lawn mowers etc when a call comes in? Do they drop them where they stand and go on the run? What happens then if some one hurts themsevles or someone else with the alwn equiptment? Remember in NYC when a pawer saw was left in a subway station and some homeless person used it on someone else? If they have to take time to secure the lawn tools that will increase response times.

Use the down time to train. I would think training, working on pre plans....That's more important. Looks like this is just another political hack trying to look like he's saving his city money.

[huzzie59 75]

just the fact you thought that they as firefighters  should cut the park grass and be happy about it ?????  lets see what do you do for a living,  and ask you to do someone elses work.  Hell why dont they pick up garbage  and paint park benches, trim trees  who needs any other city workers  we got firefighters 

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Before looking at the call numbers, I assumed they would have only had one or two calls per day.

A volunteer dept. that has DPW/Parks Dept/Highway workers responding do the same thing.

But, like everything else, I needed to look closer to the circumstances surrounding this situation. It doesn't seem they would have the time to mow the grass.

They have 15 firefighters per shift. Maybe they have too many firefighters.

And for the company I work for, I do whatever I need to do. The success of any organization is members that are willing to do whatever it takes.

[Guest]

Yet another case of the "they're there & aren't doing anything" mentallity. What about training, equipment readiness & maintenance, building inspections & pre-fire planning? Is this department doing any/all of these job related tasks? I have no issue with on duty firefighters maintaining the fire station grounds, but being farmed out as park workers is plain disrespectful. Does this city demand the on duty police officers plow the streets too? Sadly I understand this all too well. In the city I work for, it's the on duty firefighters job to set up voting booths for elections and hang banners for events not at all related to the department. It's very sad that in 2007, professional firefighters are still treated as unskilled labor for hire.

[robert benz 344]

Before looking at the call numbers, I assumed they would have only had one or two calls per day.

A volunteer dept. that has DPW/Parks Dept/Highway workers responding do the same thing.

But, like everything else, I needed to look closer to the circumstances surrounding this situation. It doesn't seem they would have the time to mow the grass.

They have 15 firefighters per shift. Maybe they have too many firefighters.

And for the company I work for, I do whatever I need to do. The success of any organization is members that are willing to do whatever it takes.

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this is where paid vs vol stuff really gets heated up, 15 ff's per shift is too many??? since it seems to really annoy you enough to look up the stats for the city and compare it to your own village, how many firefighters do you want showing up to a fire in your house. and i am talking in the first 5 minutes not 30 minutes later when the head count is really taken.

so you will do whtever the boss asks huh, well what if the boss asks someone else to do your job for no more money, hey guess what you are out of a job, if that guy thinks like you. there are ways to save money and there are ways to just make busy work, it probably is a small area that has lost its tax base and is looking for a way to make it all work. did the mayor and all city council workers offer to take a pay cut??? there is more to this story than just cutting grass,

on your point about civil service workers leaving there jobs to respond to a call, i am not anti vol but in this day and age nobody is sitting around either a garage or a paid firehouse playing checkers waiting for something to do, dpw workers leaving their job to respond, how do they get to the call?? what if half the crew leaves what does the other half do?? what happens to that work?? delayed, so my tax $$$$ are lost for at least 30 minutes if not more every time the whistle blows.

you just seem very quick to question the number of personal on duty, and what they do, compared to Tarrytown. dont worry about the size of the area it's what is inside the boundries that makes the difference

[dc2t 80]

this is where paid  vs vol stuff really gets heated up,  15 ff's per shift is too many???  since it seems to really annoy you enough to look up the stats for the city and compare it to your own village, how many firefighters do you want showing up to a fire in your house.  and i am talking in the first 5 minutes  not 30 minutes later when the head count is really taken.

so you will do whtever the boss asks huh,  well what if the boss asks someone else to do your job for no more money, hey  guess what  you are out of a job, if that guy thinks like you.  there are ways to save money  and there are ways to just make busy work, it probably is a small area that has lost its tax base and is looking for a way to make it all work. did the mayor and all city council workers offer to take a pay cut???  there is more to this story than just cutting grass,

on your point about civil service workers leaving there jobs to respond to a call, i am not anti vol  but in this day and age  nobody is sitting around either a garage or a paid firehouse playing checkers waiting for something to do,  dpw workers leaving their job to respond, how do they get to the call?? what if half the crew leaves  what does the other half do??  what happens to that work?? delayed, so my tax $$$$ are lost for at least 30 minutes if not more every time the whistle blows.

you just seem very quick to question the number of personal on duty, and what they do, compared to Tarrytown.  dont worry about the size of the area  it's what is inside the boundries that makes the difference

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IT WAS NOT TOO LONG AGO SOME DIMWIT LOCAL SUPERVISOR SUGGESTED THAT ON DUTY FFs

COULD ACT AS CROSSING GUARDS.

[FFD941 20]

Everyone is attached on the whole training and vehicle maintenace. Yes that is extremely important, but what about the personel?? What if you have personel out on a lawn mower all day and just at the end of the shift a major fire rings in??

Fatigued Firefighter + Major Fire = LODD

I guess the saying is true "Common Sense ISN'T So Common Anymore"

[lad12derff 283]

Before looking at the call numbers, I assumed they would have only had one or two calls per day.

A volunteer dept. that has DPW/Parks Dept/Highway workers responding do the same thing.

But, like everything else, I needed to look closer to the circumstances surrounding this situation. It doesn't seem they would have the time to mow the grass.

They have 15 firefighters per shift. Maybe they have too many firefighters.

And for the company I work for, I do whatever I need to do. The success of any organization is members that are willing to do whatever it takes.

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This is why you never became a paid firefighter. I hate to start this war between paid/volley but you are way off base here. We are a union of brothers, wether it be fd/pd/dpw/or parks and rec. We DO NOT do other union brothers work. That is what keeps us working. Paid/professional firefighters do not sit around all day and do nothing. We train and inspect every day. We also answer calls when needed during our training and inspections. This is total BS to have to justify our existance to you people.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Ladder, very well put in a very good manner! To also side up with Lad12derff thought process a bit, I find it interesting that some would consider the thought that with the mayor wanting firefighters to cut grass and maintain parks, that it could take away DPW jobs. As someone said there are many who have other jobs that answer calls. I think some may know where I'm going with this..so I'll leave it at that.

15 FF's per shift, too many? You can't look at how many they have on duty, you also need to know how many units they try to staff with those 15 FF's. 5 units drops manning to 3 per apparatus. That leaves you with basically an officer and firefighter per unit. Not safe, not smart. How many persons do I want at a fire in my house? Enough to get the job done and perform all functions as needed. 15 on a day with 90 degree temps and 80% humidity and they are done. 15 on most days still won't work, who is the back up when you burn your first cylinder?

[Stepjam 118]

Shameless political pandering at its worst. Why not round up the Juvies who are hanging out ("Loitering") or up to mischief and require them to do it? Pay them minimum wage, too. The City of Yonkers used to hire "economically disadvantaged youth" for the summer to help out in the Parks, etc.

That was my first paying job.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Stepjam

[Goose 188]

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you ask me firefighters ARE giving their all to the "company" (in their case a municipality) by simply being on duty. Often, i find, that in the emergency services your paid for the skills and knowledge you possess not how many jobs you turn over. Eventually you will be called on to "earn your money" aka, put out a fire, bring back an arrest, or take a perp into custody.

[Guest Chip025]

Before looking at the call numbers, I assumed they would have only had one or two calls per day.

A volunteer dept. that has DPW/Parks Dept/Highway workers responding do the same thing.

But, like everything else, I needed to look closer to the circumstances surrounding this situation. It doesn't seem they would have the time to mow the grass.

They have 15 firefighters per shift. Maybe they have too many firefighters.

And for the company I work for, I do whatever I need to do. The success of any organization is members that are willing to do whatever it takes.

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Sorry Huzzie at first I was going to ignore you because of your ridiculous stance

But instead If I was your boss and told you to wash my underware because its good for the company I think even you would be filing a law suit but then again....

[lad12derff 283]

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you ask me firefighters ARE giving their all to the "company" (in their case a municipality) by simply being on duty. Often, i find, that in the emergency services your paid for the skills and knowledge you possess not how many jobs you turn over. Eventually you will be called on to "earn your money" aka, put out a fire, bring back an arrest, or take a perp into custody.

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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

I read the Mayors remarks and found them insulting. Do these Firefighters work a 24 hour shift. If these Firefighters are out cutting grass all day, ( after doing appartus checks, housework, training, preplans,and running calls. ect) What condition will they be in if there is a fire at two in the morning! Has the mayor ever spent a day at the fire station. When politicians talk of "downtime" they dont have a real prespective of what their Firefighters do during their "downtime". Now I know there are Volunteers that work hard all day and faithfully and professionally perform their duty as Firefighters at night. That is their choice, just like it was mine when I was a Volunteer.

[EFFDCO4 0]

I'm all for doing a little extra work around the firehouse during downtime. Every station struggles with upkeep. If, and I use that work literally, the tour on shift has the downtime there is no reason why the station can't be kept clean - But cutting grass distracts one from his surroundings, mainly the radio. This is a bad idea.