Suspensions in the fire service

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Are suspensions in the firehouse used as they should be, or have some places gotten out of hand? While traditionally, a suspension, or unpaid time off in a paid department, was held for the worst of the worst offenders, are they being handed out too easily for stupid things?

Do suspensions REALLY accomplish anything?

Do any departments out there use any alternative forms of punishment. Something that actually accomplishes anything? All I see suspensions doing is removing manpower from a job already suffering decreasing numbers.

So my question is, are suspensions really a good form of punishment, or would something that "rehabilitates" chronic offenders, and remedies any problems a better choice?

[Guest MRK303]

If a company decides to suspend you, the majority of the time it’s for a purpose. I’m in favor of kicking people out of a department if it’s to the point when you need to suspend someone. We are professionals; we should act like professionals. Most times when you have a job and you do something bad, you get fired. Why push the limits and do something that could get you suspended? I don’t know your situation, but everyone just needs to act like adults and professionals.

[x129K 1,393]

So whajja do?

[lad12derff 283]

Are suspensions in the firehouse used as they should be, or have some places gotten out of hand? While traditionally, a suspension, or unpaid time off in a paid department, was held for the worst of the worst offenders, are they being handed out too easily for stupid things?

Do suspensions REALLY accomplish anything?

Do any departments out there use any alternative forms of punishment. Something that actually accomplishes anything? All I see suspensions doing is removing manpower from a job already suffering decreasing numbers.

So my question is, are suspensions really a good form of punishment, or would something that "rehabilitates" chronic offenders, and remedies any problems a better choice?

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Post #5

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Xfirefighter484x

Group: Verified Member

Posts: 520

Joined: 8-January 05

From: Dutchess County, NY

Member No.: 1,514

Age Range: 21-24

Affilitiation: Pursuing Fire Career

Rank: Student

Affiliation: Pursuing EMS Career

Rank: Emergency Medical Technician

Damn, they called 39-46 all the way from EF?

Figures, during the time I am suspended!! 2 second alarms for EF in one day, then mutual aid halfway across the county in just one week!

Is this question because you missed the big ones as you have stated. Tell us why you were suspended and let the members decide.

[AFS1970 504]

Suspensions are a strange thing in the volunteer service. First of all they end up usually being a much earlier step because they are the first step that has any real value to it. Verbal warnings will only work if the member wants to self correct. Written warnings are usually meaninglesss because if you get to setop 2 there was probably a lack of response to step 1. But both these warnings occur in a mostly private setting and don't provide any real deterent, in my opinion.

Now suspensions work because like all punishments they take away something that nakes you happy, in this case volunteering. They do however take away manpower from the department for a limited time. The question that must be weighed is this, is it better to have disruptive manpower on scene or in the firehouse or not. I think in many cases the answer is clearly no, we can do without the offender for a short duration.

I have also heard the theory that suspensions are like giving the member a vacation, in that he doesn't have to worry about responding for the period of time. I don't really agree with this because a suspension only really works if the member wants to be and is an active responder, then they will be upset at missing fires and not being at the station.

Sadly because suspensions are one of the only two punishments that really work, they do tend to get over used. The other is dismissal, and since everyone pretty much works to not overuse that, once again suspensions become the only option.

[helicopper 1,050]

Are suspensions in the firehouse used as they should be, or have some places gotten out of hand? While traditionally, a suspension, or unpaid time off in a paid department, was held for the worst of the worst offenders, are they being handed out too easily for stupid things?

Do suspensions REALLY accomplish anything?

Do any departments out there use any alternative forms of punishment. Something that actually accomplishes anything? All I see suspensions doing is removing manpower from a job already suffering decreasing numbers.

So my question is, are suspensions really a good form of punishment, or would something that "rehabilitates" chronic offenders, and remedies any problems a better choice?

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I don't know if you're referring to paid or volunteer departments but in most civil service departments (police or fire), there is a progressive discipline program where an offender is counseled (verbally), counseled (writing), loss of accrued time, suspension, dismissal. A single severe infraction may result in a more serious disposition and a pattern of seemingly insignificant infractions may result in a higher level of discipline than for the same infraction by someone for the first time. For example, a single positive drug test may result in suspension/dismissal and if you're late for your shift all the time you may also be subject to more severe punishment than if you're late once due to 5" hoses being stretched across Route 9.

Much of this is controlled by contracts or other labor agreements and/or civil service rules and regulations and may vary somewhat agency to agency. If you're referring to a volunteer department there should be some disciplinary procedure either in by-laws or policies and procedures. You can't take away accrued time in a voluntary agency so other than counseling there really isn't much besides suspension/dismissal.

Does it work? That's really up to the person affected. If someone wants to learn from the disciplinary process then YES it does work. If someone just takes their suspension and does the same nonsense again, it doesn't work. It also helps if the agency treats everyone equally and takes action when somebody screws up regardless of who they are. Favoritism can be a big issue in voluntary agencies.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

It doesn't matter my specific situation. It is merely a question of generalities. Certainly there are times and situations where a suspension may be in order, but in general, do people believe more in just suspending and saying "Yea, we fixed the problem" or is there an attitude out there where people actually care about fixing a problem and making it better for everyone?

[Remember585 815]

We've discussed this often in our FD. The answer we have come up with is this - no two incidents are the same. HOWEVER, no matter who the person is should hold no weight and make no influence in the decision. If Joe FF does something wrong and Johnny Do-Good makes the same mistake, we should be fair with the punishments of both.

We use a disciplinary form which helps guide Company Officers with each situation to avoid missing things. Is it perfect - no. Is anything? I don't believe so.

The hardest thing in our end of the world (volly-land) is that we generally are friends with our peers (or related to them in many cases) and having to change the "friend" hat to the "officer" hat is tough. I had to suspend one of my best friends when I was Captain. What he did was something I had done in the past, but since it was a concrete rule NOW and it was violated after both a written and verbal reprimand, I had no choice. I gave the most minor suspension I could and hated doing it. But I chose to be an Officer, and as an Officer we have to lead.

I strongly encourage anyone thinking of being an Officer or already one to take the Intro to Fire Officer and Fire Officer I courses at least. I learned a lot about personnel management in these courses, and am sure others have too.