Virginia Firefighters couldn't find victim

[Guest]

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LORTON, Va.-- "We should have found her." Those are the words of Fairfax County Interim Fire and Rescue Chief David Rohr about the death of Debra Chiles.

9NEWS NOW has learned that the 49 year old Chiles was on the phone with 911 for two minutes after firefighters arrived at her burning Lorton home last Wednesday morning. Chief Rohr said today, "I think we had opportunities to find her."

Chief Rohr confirmed there was no fire on the third floor of the townhouse where Chiles had taken refuge in a bathroom. The fire was confined to the first floor.

Fire officials confirmed Wednesday the accuracy of a timeline 9NEWS NOW put together. The timeline comes from sources familiar with the sequence of events, beginning with Chiles first call to 911 just before 1:00 a.m.

Chief Rohr said Chiles was still on the phone with 911 when the first firefighters arrived. The crews from Rescue 419 and Engine 419 arrived right after each other at around 1:07 a.m.

According to Chief Rohr, 911 workers properly relayed that there was a woman trapped in the third floor bathroom. Rohr said crews went immediately to the third floor.

Despite the use of thermal imaging cameras, Chief Rohr said the firefighters didn't find the woman during their first search.

A second search began after 1:35 a.m. According to Chief Rohr it was sometime during that second search that the woman's body was found. He said at that point it was too late to attempt to revive Chiles.

At the request of 9NEWS NOW, former Alexandria Fire Marshal Michael A. Conner looked at the aftermath of the fire and the floor plan of similar townhomes.

Conner, now a senior investigative analyst for Doptis and Buchanan, called this a relatively small fire. Conner said he is puzzled how firefighters, armed with her specific location, in full protective gear, and a thermal imaging camera, would be unable to find Chiles.

Chief Rohr also said he does not know why firefighters could not find the woman in time to save her. Rohr is hoping a "post-incident analysis" of the events will provide some answers.

Republished with permission of WUSA-TV.

[helicopper 1,050]

I read that article and the first thought that came to mind was the reliance on the thermal imaging camera. TI technology is GREAT - I think it is awesome for law enforcement and the fire service but I think the industry does a horrible job educating users on its limitations and actual capabilities.

Thermal imaging cameras do not "see through" walls, doors, trees, windows, water, or anything else! They detect heat - nothing more! So, if this woman was in a bathroom (or any room for that matter) she would be invisible to the camera. Even if she was leaning on a standard hollow core door, they probably would not have picked her up with TI.

The great benefit to the fire service is the ability of the TIC to locate fire (heat) without having to open up walls/ceilings etc. Unfortunately if that fire is well insulated - or in this case the victim is well insulated - the camera won't do you any good.

The law enforcement community was hamstrung by a Supreme Court decision limiting the use of TI technology because some blowhole testified erroneously that thermal imaging equipment in use by law enforcement could "see through walls and show activity within". Despite expert testimony to the contrary, the court believed this yahoo and ruled against the warrantless use of TI cameras on houses.

So, despite all the toys and technology, sometimes it is best to use "traditional" methods.

DISCLAIMER: I am not in any way criticizing the fire department involved in this story. It is a tragedy and I am only pointing out a limitation to the therma imaging technology, not its use by the FD!

[BIGRED1 71]

well put Chris. I have to agree and think that the rescue team just got tunnel vision and were to complacent with there search. i mean they had her location so it was not like they had to search the whole structure to find her. Maybe there were two bathrooms in the place and they searched one and didn't find anyone, then continued their search. i will wait for all the details but your eyes never lie, so use them.

[antiquefirelt 994]

My crew had the same discussion here today and also came up with the heavey reliance on the TIC as a possible issue. Certainly if she was in a glass enclosed shower (as many civilians worry about burning) then the TIC would give a false read on the glass. But not to make excuses for them, but we haven't got the full story here either. How many actaully went on the first search? the chief says "crews" but did every firefighter bail out and charge up the stairs? Or did a crew pull a line to protect the stairs? How large is the total third floor? Is it multiple apartments that required forcible entry? How many were in the intial two apparatus? It cetainly doesn't help for the interim Chief to immediately go on an offensive investigation, but he should know more than us, and it might be warranted.

[BFD1054 1,552]

Chris, awesome reply! I couldnt agree more. I do not believe that there is enough training on TICs on the manufacturers end. TICs can make FFs complacent & they forget their basic search skills. TICs are not the end all, be all. Are they great technology? Of course they are! But we must train on their proper uses & capabilities and not get tunnel vision with them.

I am sure these FFs did the best they could and i will not monday morning quarterback this incident, as non of us should. Unfortunately a person died in this fire, it happens and it sucks all around. I guess we will have to wait and see further reports on this fire to get a better understanding of what happened. Only the members on scene know what took place and where things went wrong.

[Guest partyrock]

A couple of times I've seen guys sweep a room with the tic and try and say that the room was clear. Makes you want to slam their tic into the ground. Touch all corners. Sweep with your tool. Do the job the right way.

[MP134 5]

There have been times where I've used the TIC in a bathroom and will get a reverse reading. If the bathroom has tile walls, the only thing you will see is a reflection of yourself, the tile acts like a mirror.

And like it was stated in the above replies, search with your hands and tools. Check the tub/shower, open the shower door. Just because the bathroom looks small and nothing is showing on the TIC, go inside and feel around. If it is small, it's not going to take long. Better to know that you checked everything instead of having a doubt in the back of your mind.