Request for Non-Emergency Response

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Since some of us have been bringing up great topics that also seem to be pet peaves, I wanted to add another one that I have had a few instances of "WTF?"

I recently arrived at an EMS call first for a toe injury. When I arrived I was met by my patient who had an obvious toe dislocation. Painful...yes. Funny looking...yes. Emergent? Negative. The ambulance hadn't assembled yet, so I got on the radio and asked my dispatch to advise the ambulance that this was a dislocated toe and to have them respond non-emergency. As I got done with my transmission, dispatched asked a radio number (who happened to be an officer of the agency) if he had copied my transmission and he said "affirmative." So basically I'm still trying to figure out why then the ambulance had its lights on when it arrived. Is there anyone who doesn't understand what it means if someone requests that you come in non-emergency? There is no such thing as a half response...so just having your lights on is silly and still just as dangerous. This also leads me to believe that the siren was probably used...and for what? For a stable patient with a dislocated toe. I think its pretty obvious the point here.

Perhaps while were at it we can still get people to stop using 10 codes like we are suppose too, and to stop saying "respond with caution." What a ridiculous statement. How about "respond non-emergency" or "units can come in easy" or something to that effect.

[pjreilly 6]

Perhaps while were at it we can still get people to stop using 10 codes like we are suppose too, and to stop saying "respond with caution."  What a ridiculous statement.  How about "respond non-emergency" or "units can come in easy" or something to that effect.

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10-4 on that K. OOps I mean I agree K.

[EJS1810 7]

Perhaps while were at it we can still get people to stop using 10 codes like we are suppose too, and to stop saying "respond with caution."  What a ridiculous statement.  How about "respond non-emergency" or "units can come in easy" or something to that effect.

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This is a major issue with me. For many years my department has used the phrase "Respond Non-Emergency" for a reduced level of response. This means NO Lights & NO Siren. You go with the normal flow of traffic.

At work I am constantly told to have units "respond with caution" I am so tempted one day to ask "Is that opposed to respond with reckless abandomnent?" Every call we respond to should be responded to with caution. What matters is if we are responding in the emergency mode or the non-emergency mode.

As Chief Billy Goldfeder said yesterday at the Putnam County Fire Chiefs Seminar, we are our own worst enemies. We preach safety but as soon as we get in our BRT's we forget all we have learned and go flying down the road in our S350,000-$500,000 rigs making all kinds of noises and blowing through lights and stop signs to get to a burning $1,000 dollar shed from Home Depot that was dumpster material by the time we got the call.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I remember back in the day I think it could have been one of my first calls EVERY. Anyway we were told to Proceed with Caution. Not knowing what that meant I turned on the siren and kept going. When I got to the scene A Detective in that Jurisdiction advised me what that meant. I learned a Lesson.

Many people love to drive around with the lights and sirens on. I have done my own little study. Not writing anything down however just keeping the results in my head. If I drive lights and sirens people start do drive like they have never been behind the wheel of a car. Pet Peeve, Please pull to the right. Don't stop in the middle or pull to the left where there is a curb that I can't get around. If I drive normal to the call I can sometimes get there faster. Now that all depends on the Nature. To a Cardiac, Diff Breather, Diabetic...ETC then I go Balls out. To a stubbed toe, jammed finger...ETC I drive Normal.

Being that I was involved in EMS when I get on a call now I will advise the Medic and the Ambulance what is going on and I feel that lights are not important then I tell them. If the show up with lights and sirens especially after 10p then I let them have it.

[Remember585 815]

ALS, you forgot to mention the hospital was spitting distance from your scene!

We had, until recently, used the Code 1 and Code 2 rule in the FD. Code 1 was emergency mode and Code 2 was non-emergency mode. It was easy enough. We never said 10-20 or "Respond with Caution" since our first EVOC class in 1995.

Now it's non-emergency mode, or it is emergency mode. Simple enough.

What helps too is our SOG which basically says if there is no life-threatening problem or potential for one - we go non-emergency mode.

Sure, I am like everyone else and I love the sound of the sirens, but it makes sense. I will never understand why lights and sirens are used for stupid, non-emergent calls like lockouts, lock-ins, pump outs, etc.

[wcr20 17]

Wow EJS... You literally took the words out of my mouth with your "reckless abandon" comment. I used to say that exact same thing - it used to make me crazy...

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I was trying to be somewhat polite 585...but I could have spit over the hospital even with taking the wind into account. lol. Besides you know that some just can't take my subtle quiet approach to chronic problems.

"PROCEED WITH CAUTION"

What is the opposite of that anyway? Proceed with reckless abandon? That is right up there with the work "expedite." Throw it away!!!!

[EJS1810 7]

That is right up there with the work "expedite."  Throw it away!!!!

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Don't you have an expidite button? I think it kicks in the afterburners. We ask you to expidite because the transporters arn't working yet.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Nah..no afterburners here. I guess they think I'm actually still not gonna stop for that cup of coffee on the way. geesh...da nerve!

[Guest]

EJS - you should put a big poster up over @ the 911 center:

Proceed with Caution = Respond Non Emergency

maybe if you guys translated for all the chief's out there they would get the point

[BFD1054 1,552]

ALS, i guess more people need to take EVOC when you teach it and they would be more than informed on these meaning's and how they drive you crazy lol .

I to have told incoming units in my agency to "respond non-emergency" or something similar, only to hear sirens approaching the scene. This is very annoying & dangerous ! I've even encountered this after said unit(s) have copied my transmission! Its always fun to play back the audio so that they can hear themselves copy my tranmission and then explain why they ignored it lol! However, our new chief has set in place updated SOP's/SOG's to deal specifically with responding and they have worked out with our guys following them pretty well.

Now, the 10-code thing, a whole other topic in itself! How long has it been now that we've gone away from the 10 codes? Yet we still have agencies that insist on using them .

Edited May 14, 2007 by BFD1054

[EJS1810 7]

EJS - you should put a big poster up over @ the 911 center:

            Proceed with Caution = Respond Non Emergency

maybe if you guys translated for all the chief's out there they would get the point

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Alas, we have to echo, not translate into something that might actually make sence.

[Guest]

Silly protocol!

[Oswegowind 17]

Don't you have an expidite button?  I think it kicks in the afterburners.  We ask you to expidite because the transporters arn't working yet.

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Negative, expedite is when you contact the starship Enterprise at 555-9018 in any area code and have them beam the unit to the scene. I guess no one knows about this cause not many people are calling! Catch up with the times!

As for no lights, no sirens...I agree...EMD should be used all the time and the response quadrants followed! Way to many times do we put our lives in danger and think we are immune, proceeding with lights and sirens. People will always do stupid things, cause non emergency service persons have no idea what to do and PANIC! Don't kill yourself and please don't kill anyone else!

[Guest partyrock]

I agree with the requests to expedite. There are times when EMS for one reason or another has info that would lead them to believe its a non-emergent call. If PD gets on scene and finds otherwise the EMS crew knows to step it up. I know in NYC there are 4 different classifications for injuries. Ranging from a non-emergency "minor injury" to a "trauma" that would get ALS added. I've had an "injury-minor" (the lowest of emergency priorities) turn out to be a potentialy arterial bleed. Comming from a distance I could have been pre-empted for a half dozen different call types had PD not put a rush on the bus. Lets be honest not all emergencies get the same emergency response out of us.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Party..I hear what your saying...but again due regard is due regard. Expedite tells me nothing other then apparantly you can't handle what you have there. Give me a patient update...something meaningful...not just "expedite." Silly word that some people cannot handle and start driving like maniacs. The word expedite gets no response out of me and often if anyone listens to me on the radio I do not feed into it and you will often hear a humorous/sarcastic reply "I am responding." Or "do you have an update." or if you get a little too excited..."OK...perform your BLS skills and I will get there." And if you really piss me off..."ok..well I'm trying levitate but its not quite working."

A 5-7 minutes response time...is a 5-7 minute response time. Switching sirens more frequently and using that dumb a** phaser mode, stomping the accelerator harder and then having to brake harder when your too close to the intersection saves no time.

Rarely if not ever have I gotten a call where it was led me to believe it was minor like a leg injury that an update was given that it was an amputation.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I also hate teh "Expedite" or other radio speak meant to get any unit to floor it! Our personnel are taught to drive two ways:

1. Non-emergency: Drive with the flow of traffic.

2. Emergency: drive as fast as safely possible using full audible and visual warning devices and using due regard.

If the rig is already travelling "emergecny status" then then that's it! No more! We're given her all she's got Captain!

If the rig is responding "non-emergency", they'll kick it up to "emergency".

But, it is known when the rig goes enroute how their travelling because they put themselves enroute "emergency status" or "non-emergency status" as part of the radio transmission.

Our personnel will always switch to "non-emergency" if they recive a report from a trained party at the scene or reports of no injuries at MVA's. This is due to the high risk situation caused by driving lights and sirens. And with mostly short runs 1-2 miles max in mild traffic the response times only drift up slightly.

[Guest partyrock]

The problem with this site is I'm talking to too many responsible people. Sadly too often have different response priorities based on wether they think the call is BS or how cold their dinner is getting.

I know alot of dispatchers take great pride in the job they do, but too often by the time a message goes from the PO to their dispatcher, into the computer, to our dispatcher and over the air you could be responding bigfoot assaulting mothra. Expedidte somehow always makes it over.

[Guest]

ALS, how do you feel about "rush?" For some reason "rush" always sound alot more dangerous :X!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Alpha ask anyone who operates with me and I never "rush" nor "run" on the fireground or any incident. I also do not get excited on the radio. Only once did my voice raise a bit and that is when a police officer (whom I'm related too) almost ran me over at a shooting with his car.

I move methodically, especially as a paramedic..but I don't rush you will miss something. Plus on the fireground how can you get a good mental picutre? Not to mention that might be the last fresh air I ever suck in from the outside I mind as well enjoy it.

[Guest paramedico987]

Well... I don't particularly agree about the expedite thing for one simple reason.

Unless the dispatch info is something to the tone of "respond for the bus load of babies and nuns all choking on thier ham sandwiches" I try to drive SLOWER than I do under normal circumstances, often humerously getting passed on the highway by just about everybody.

I recognise and appreciate that someone on scene feels that my presence is imminantly important, so now I may chose to drive AT OR ABOVE the speed limit.

That said, I take into account WHO is requesting the expedite and then proceed down the differential diagnosis and treatment algorithm for possible cranio-rectal inversion.

...and yes, my buses do have "expedite" switches... I put the labels on myself!

[IzzyEng4 427]

            Proceed with Caution = Respond Non Emergency

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Aren't you supposed to be Proceeding with caution when driving apparatus whether in emergency or non emergency????? I HAT THAT TERM.

Use Emergency, Hot or Priority one for lights and siren response and Non-Emergency, respond with traffic, cold or Priority 2 for no lights and siren respons.

Many departments abuses that term so much that it eventually leads to respond at a slower speed with lights and siren still on! If an emergency response is not needed shut off the warning devices.

(Alpha just using you quote to make a point on my opinion, nothing against ya.)