When, if ever, does one stop being one of ours?

[AFS1970 504]

After discussing a few different incidents I came up with this question? When, if ever, does someone stop being one of our own? Several different circumstances lead to this question, which I think crosses over the Career/Volunteer or Police/Fire/EMS borders. Often we read about bad or criminal behavior on the part of a Member of Service and join together in calling it a “black eye” for the respective service, but when is enough just enough? Here are two sanitized cases with most of the details intact that illustrate what I am talking about.

A retired member of service develops or reveals a certain criminal tendency after retirement, which leads to multiple arrests, and ultimately some jail time. After he is released he continues to have problems and ends up with a relatively minor warrant issued for him. When the PD units go to serve the warrant, other members of the service are heard saying that they must have nothing better to do than arrest one of ours. The question is how much criminal activity and how many arrests does he have to accumulate before he stops getting the courtesy and respect of a member of the service he retired from?

A former member of a service was dismissed due to a crime against the agency. There was very likely a substance abuse issue involved with the crimes. Over the years he has moved out of town, joined other agencies and apparently stopped abusing the substances he once did. Many of the current members of the service do not remember him as a member, due to the time that has passed. He periodically comes back to events related to the service, and acts like there is nothing wrong, and sometimes like he is still involved. Should he be welcomed back with open arms?

I'll be the first to say that I do not know the answers, but it is interesting to think about. Especially when so many of us bemoan the fact that the media is always quick to mention service affiliation when something bad happens involving one of ours.

[x242Steve 1]

I think it all depends on the severity of the offense/crime...

Most of us (while off-duty) break some of the rules on a regular basis, whether its doing 35 in a 30, talking on the phone when driving, or turning right on red where you're not supposed to...

If a MOS that I knew was involved with something slightly shady, I would have to hear all sides of the situation before making a professional or social choice in how I continued to deal with that person... However, I personally draw the line at domestic violence. IMO once you have laid your hands on a woman, I want nothing to do with you.

I recall taking a domestic abuse call where it turned out that I was loosely familiar with the accused abuser (whose affiliation with an emergency services agency was made known to me by the caller), and it really made me sick, more so than the average domestic call.

Regarding the media: If they are going to say "Jim Smith, a firefighter with FD X, was arrested on charges of DWI..." then why don't we see every other perp's occupation mentioned... i.e. "John Williams, a maintenance worker with railroad X, was arrested..." or "Dr. Tom Miller, a doctor at hospital X..." You get the point...

Edited May 2, 2007 by 242steve

[Guest WolfEMT]

When, if ever, does someone stop being one of our own?

Easy. Whenever he/she brings a sense of shame upon the service that tarnishes the reputations of everyone else.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I generally will not associate with known felons. I find this to be a smart and at one time for me was basically a job requirement by policy. In addition I know a couple of people whom were close to getting locked up for stupid, ignorant acts which myself and many other people whom know the situation find to be a complete disgrace and unprofessional and I opt not to conversate nor associate with this individual either.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I am glad that I read this topic. We all break the rules and the law. If you don't then you must be a Saint.

Domestic Violence is nothing to play around with especially now a day's. In the past, Domestic Violence was kept secret by the people who it was being done too. Sometimes I think that is all I do at work is respond to people who can't talk or work out their problems. Then they turn to us to fix it. But if you think about it we have all probably been involved in a Domestic Incident at least once. Maybe not the hitting or throwing of things, but more likely the Yelling at a Loved one.

In the case of a fellow MOS that left their position and moved away got help and is doing fine. I think EVERYONE deserves a SECOND CHANCE. We all make mistakes and believe me I make tons. I happen to know a bunch of people that maybe aren't the most upstanding citizens but I haven't turned my back on them. I might not call them but if I see them around I am not rude to them either.

What is a known Felon? Is it a murderer, rapist, robbery, arsonist, or could it be your buddy that had his license suspended a couple of times. That is a felony also.

So ALSFIREFIGHTER, one of your buddies doesn't know that his license is suspended and he gets pulled over and finds out that his license suspened and it turns out to be a FELONY. Your not going to talk to that person anymore?

I bet we could all sit here and name tons of people that we have worked with or known that have done some bad stuff. I think that we should have to hear both sides to any story and make our conclussions from there.